Valve's Steam Machine Prototype

[Snowdog]

I don't get people hatorading on this. It only presents positives for PC gaming. Greater demand for high end PC gaming parts will bring down the prices on them. More people playing PC games will get more games coming out for the PC. And the FREE OS could mean better gaming gaming perfomrnace through optimization and $100 less you have to spend every time you build a new gaming PC.

Because it looks like a non-starter.

There really seems to be no path for success here. The prototype is almost irrelevant, because ultimately SteamOS is running on generic PC HW. There is no real surprise on this side. Nice SFF case, but people could just use that for a Windows machine.

What it really boils down to is: SteamOS going head to head with Windows on the same HW. This has always crashed and burned for any challenger.

How many people building a gaming PC, are going to cheap out on the last $100 for the Windows license, and cut themselves off from 99% of the games. That is a completely nonsensical position.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Also doesn't have any optical drive, so Blu-ray is out of the question. You may want to give the XBOX ONE a look.

Again, this design is one of many different prototype configurations. But, if it does not have codecs loaded into the build already, it would cut down on some of the flexibility.

 

[maverikv]

Because it looks like a non-starter.

There really seems to be no path for success here. The prototype is almost irrelevant, because ultimately SteamOS is running on generic PC HW. There is no real surprise on this side. Nice SFF case, but people could just use that for a Windows machine.

What it really boils down to is: SteamOS going head to head with Windows on the same HW. This has always crashed and burned for any challenger.

How many people building a gaming PC, are going to cheap out on the last $100 for the Windows license, and cut themselves off from 99% of the games. That is a completely nonsensical position.

Is it a non-starter though? Because this seems to address the biggest (or one of the biggest) problems people have with PC gaming: you can just turn it on and it works. You plug it into your TV and turn it on and it boots into Steam. It is built like an enthusiast would build it and requres no configuration or installing of anything. So while you or I may not go for it, imagine someone on the fence who has the cash and really wants the versatility and graphics of PC gaming but doesn't have the time and/or knowledge to build their own gaming PC. Why wouldn't they jump all over this? Don't you think some people would buy an XBOX that cost twice as much if it gave them PC quality graphics?

 

[Snowdog]

Is it a non-starter though? Because this seems to address the biggest (or one of the biggest) problems people have with PC gaming: you can just turn it on and it works.

If they are scared of PCs, then I think they will just buy a console, that costs less, has way more marketing, way more gaming exclusives.

There is a niche for almost anything, but the niche for SteamOS is miniscule. I bet it will make Linux on the desktop looking like a raging success in comparison.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

If they are scared of PCs, then I think they will just buy a console, that costs less, has way more marketing, way more gaming exclusives.

There is a niche for almost anything, but the niche for SteamOS is miniscule. I bet it will make Linux on the desktop looking like a raging success in comparison.

PC has several orders of magnitude more exclusives than all consoles combined.

 

[maverikv]

If they are scared of PCs, then I think they will just buy a console, that costs less, has way more marketing, way more gaming exclusives.

There is a niche for almost anything, but the niche for SteamOS is miniscule. I bet it will make Linux on the desktop looking like a raging success in comparison.

I think it all depends on how they market it. Its niche now, but will it be when the major PC sellers are marketing their own Steam Machines? Some people buy consoles because they cost less. But will the mid-range Steam Machines cost any more than the top end consoles with all the bells and whistles? Lots of people buy the top models of these systems.

Consoles don't have that many exclusives anymore. And games are cheaper on the PC. Plus, there's none of this backwards compatibility nonsense. I don't know about compatibility going backwards to before SteamOS debuts, but if you buy a game on your Steam Machine and you buy a new Steam Machine in ten years, that game will most likely still work (really well due to the new hardware) and actually may even look better because things like resolution won't be hardcoded into the game.

 

[octoberasian]

Has anyone forgotten that even if SteamOS is Linux-based, it'll still stream games from a Windows PC onto your HDTV?

 

[heatlesssun]

PC has several orders of magnitude more exclusives than all consoles combined.

That sell several orders of magnitudes less overall. I'm still trying to figure out who this would appeal to beyond the hard core and anti-MS crowd. And the savings on the OS aren't that significant once you start getting into the better hardware configs.

 

[maverikv]

That sell several orders of magnitudes less overall. I'm still trying to figure out who this would appeal to beyond the hard core and anti-MS crowd. And the savings on the OS aren't that significant once you start getting into the better hardware configs.

Erm, some PC exclusive games sell like gangbusters. WOW moved how many copies? Or Starcraft 2 which sold more copies than 99% of the games on the 360?

Its a new product that will play almost all of the biggest game releases (or all depending on what games you play) plus many more that don't come out for consoles at all. It works like a console and can cost the same as a console or you can pay more and get graphics that consoles won't get until the next gen.

Oh and the games are cheaper and often go on sale for WAY cheaper, and you can use any controller you want including keyboard/mouse

I can't imagine anyone who would want that . . .

 

[LeninGHOLA]

That sell several orders of magnitudes less overall. I'm still trying to figure out who this would appeal to beyond the hard core and anti-MS crowd. And the savings on the OS aren't that significant once you start getting into the better hardware configs.

Not true at all. Unless you're saying console games sell hundreds of millions of copies per exclusive title, which would be crazy talk.

 

[8du8]

Is it a non-starter though? Because this seems to address the biggest (or one of the biggest) problems people have with PC gaming: you can just turn it on and it works. You plug it into your TV and turn it on and it boots into Steam. It is built like an enthusiast would build it and requres no configuration or installing of anything. So while you or I may not go for it, imagine someone on the fence who has the cash and really wants the versatility and graphics of PC gaming but doesn't have the time and/or knowledge to build their own gaming PC. Why wouldn't they jump all over this? Don't you think some people would buy an XBOX that cost twice as much if it gave them PC quality graphics?

You just described all the people that buy boutique systems which there are already plenty of companies building. This is just a less versatile boutique system.

 

[Godmachine]

Replace that now obsolete TITAN with an AMD 290x and you've got a machine that can run playable frame rates at 4k and at $550 its almost half the cost of a TITAN.

 

[maverikv]

You just described all the people that buy boutique systems which there are already plenty of companies building. This is just a less versatile boutique system.

No I didn't. Boutique systems still require normal PC use. This is a console that plays PC games. Boot into dashboard, updates automatically, minimual input and configuration required. Pick your game, press purchase, wait for download, play. End.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

No I didn't. Boutique systems still require normal PC use. This is a console that plays PC games. Boot into dashboard, updates automatically, minimual input and configuration required. Pick your game, press purchase, wait for download, play. End.

Or dual boot if you want platform flexibility.

 

[Snowdog]

PC has several orders of magnitude more exclusives than all consoles combined.

You mean Windows has more exclusives (of lower selling games).

I am not making an argument against Windows.

I am making it against SteamOS/Linux as a gaming platform.

Tell me how many exclusives does that have?

 

[maverikv]

You mean Windows has more exclusives (of lower selling games).

I am not making an argument against Windows.

I am making it against SteamOS/Linux as a gaming platform.

Tell me how many exclusives does that have?

Why does it need exclusives? Does it matter to you if other people are disallowed from playing a game, or it is enough that you can play it?

SteamOS should NEVER have exclusives. It makes no sense. Exclusives should piss you off anyway. Microsoft and Sony buy off publishers to NOT release their software on other systems. At the end of the day the system just means YOU get to play less games. As long as it plays the games I want to play, what do I care if other people get to play it too?

 

[Parja]

Define "lots cheaper". My understanding was that raw PC hardware doesn't have huge margins to begin with even at the consumer level, making it hard to build systems much cheaper than your average basement dwelling nerd even if you order them in the thousands.

It's a pipe dream. Surely Valve isn't going to sell more Steamboxes than an etailer like Newegg or Amazon is going to sell quantities of the individual hardware pieces. So logically, Valve is probably going to get the components for around the same price Newegg or Amazon does and turn around and sell the completed system for a similar markup...plus some additional money for assembly/configuration of the completed system.

Thus, you'll probably be better off putting together and configuring a "Steambox" yourself...as always.

 

[maverikv]

It's a pipe dream. Surely Valve isn't going to sell more Steamboxes than an etailer like Newegg or Amazon is going to sell quantities of the individual hardware pieces. So logically, Valve is probably going to get the components for around the same price Newegg or Amazon does and turn around and sell the completed system for a similar markup...plus some additional money for assembly/configuration of the completed system.

Thus, you'll probably be better off putting together and configuring a "Steambox" yourself...as always.

Valve isn't selling Steamboxes. They will be sold (presumably) by PC manufacturers, who would be able to leverage distributor power, most certainly.

 

[DPI]

Doesnt it seem pretty pointless to beta test a hardware config that isnt going to be available in the retail version?

No because its not the hardware that's in trial, its a software service on a new platform that they're trying to revolutionize, and the point of the higher end hardware on the beta boxes is to ensure the testing won't be held back by hardware.

Seriously, all you guys chattering " I don't understand the point" over and over like old women, get a clue.

 

[maverikv]

No because its not the hardware that's in trial, its a software service on a new platform that they're trying to revolutionize, and the point of the higher end hardware on the beta boxes is to ensure the testing won't be held back by hardware.

Seriously, all you guys chattering " I don't understand the point" over and over like old women, get a clue.

This^

 

[ServerKing]

Too many unknowns to judge steambox/OS now, besides being beta hardware, the only people that really are interested are the testers that get free goodies right now

 

[DPI]

Why does it need exclusives? Does it matter to you if other people are disallowed from playing a game, or it is enough that you can play it?

SteamOS should NEVER have exclusives. It makes no sense. Exclusives should piss you off anyway. Microsoft and Sony buy off publishers to NOT release their software on other systems. At the end of the day the system just means YOU get to play less games. As long as it plays the games I want to play, what do I care if other people get to play it too?

Thats naive and misses the long view. Microsoft began the Xbox era with one big exclusive called Halo - got me to buy it just to play that game. Microsoft just wired EA a nice large 8 figure sum to keep Titanfall exclusive jurisdiction on XBONE so apparently the exclusives game is still happening and the number crunchers continue to make the case for it. If exclusives didn't motivate people then the practice would have died.

Valve is a world class developer and would be foolish not to make their much anticipated sequels like HL3/L4D3/Portal3 SteamOS exclusive at least for a time. Their survival basically depends on it given Microsoft is pushing third party software stores off the windows platform.

 

[Parja]

Valve isn't selling Steamboxes. They will be sold (presumably) by PC manufacturers, who would be able to leverage distributor power, most certainly.

Well, whomever, doesn't matter. Those manufacturers, who have distributor power, aren't getting hardware for any less than the distributors themselves (Newegg, Amazon, etc.). And they surely aren't going to turn around and sell said hardware at cost. So the point stands...you're not going to get Steamboxes for less than it would cost to build one yourself.

 

[maverikv]

Well, whomever, doesn't matter. Those manufacturers, who have distributor power, aren't getting hardware for any less than the distributors themselves (Newegg, Amazon, etc.). And they surely aren't going to turn around and sell said hardware at cost. So the point stands...you're not going to get Steamboxes for less than it would cost to build one yourself.

Maybe not for less, but does it narrow the gap? Maybe. Might it even cost you the same? Perhaps. Depends on what kind of deals the manufacturers have with their suppliers and what kind of margins they see, and also if they get a kickback from valve for selling a Steam Box.

Don't forget, Valve has a vested interest in selling these. Every Steam Box sold means more sales on Steam.

 

[8du8]

No I didn't. Boutique systems still require normal PC use. This is a console that plays PC games. Boot into dashboard, updates automatically, minimual input and configuration required. Pick your game, press purchase, wait for download, play. End.

No configuration or installation of anything though really? You dont have to install games and run them? It just happens all on its own? How much configuration is really necessary if all you want to do is play games on a Windows PC? Really, it is quite minimal. This isnt the 90's/ealy 2000's. If you buy a already built system and only want to game you pretty install games and play them, the amount of configuration is really up to the user these days.

 

[Void]

So I also guess that any game mods that are user installed are out with this too? Heck, thats what makes some games more fun and helps with longevity of said games.

 

[maverikv]

No configuration or installation of anything though really? You dont have to install games and run them? It just happens all on its own? How much configuration is really necessary if all you want to do is play games on a Windows PC? Really, it is quite minimal. This isnt the 90's/ealy 2000's. If you buy a already built system and only want to game you pretty install games and play them, the amount of configuration is really up to the user these days.

Its still enough fiddling to turn people off. I'm not saying it isn't dumb or easy to do, but if you want people to take your road you gotta pull down the roadblocks, no matter how low they are.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

So I also guess that any game mods that are user installed are out with this too? Heck, thats what makes some games more fun and helps with longevity of said games.

Not if they are Steam Workshop integrated, which is becoming more and more widely adopted.

 

[Tudz]

Why does it need exclusives? Does it matter to you if other people are disallowed from playing a game, or it is enough that you can play it?

It matters because people need to be inspired to buy it. If your system plays games but it plays only a handful of games that can be played on another system which costs the same or less and that other system has exclusives as well, then most sane consumers are going to go for the system that plays more games and/or games they prefer.

 

[Void]

Not if they are Steam Workshop integrated, which is becoming more and more widely adopted.

But if it's a game like Skyrim then your screwed when it comes to mods. With that game the mods make all the difference.

 

[octoberasian]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/04/valve-will-not-make-exclusive-games-for-steamos

via Reddit.

Valve has confirmed that it will not be making games that are exclusive to SteamOS or Steam Machines.

Speaking to IGN, Valve’s Greg Comer said, “you won’t see an exclusive killer app for SteamOS from us. We’re not going to be doing that kind of thing.”

This will also apply to third-party titles, Valve’s Anna Sweet told us. “Whenever we talk to third-party partners, we encourage them to put their games in as many places as possible, including not on our platforms," she said. "Because we think that customers are everywhere, and they want to put their games wherever customers are. That would go against our whole philosophy, to launch something that’s exclusive to SteamOS or Steam machines.”

 

[LeninGHOLA]

But if it's a game like Skyrim then your screwed when it comes to mods. With that game the mods make all the difference.

Skyrim does have Steam Workshop integration.

 

[octoberasian]

Guys, remember: This is not a gaming console by Microsoft or Sony that is locked down to their hardware.

Steam Machines is still a computer and it will not be restricted via firmware, BIOS, or Hypervisor and other security restrictions on what you can and cannot do on this device. It is a PC gaming device for the living room that also streams Windows-exclusive games (and OSX games) to the living room onto your HDTV.

Mods are possible and will not be like Skyrim for the 360 or PS3. Steam Workshop will work just like it always has been on the PC.

Microsoft or Sony will never have this option in their consoles or any of their games. They will still hold exclusives that you can only get on their hardware and their hardware alone.

And, Steam is also giving you the option of installing SteamOS on any other hardware you can build that isn't theirs.

Steam Machines => Less tech savvy, technophobic folks.
SteamOS + Custom machine => [H] users and other people that want a gaming PC in the living room.​

Also, there won't be any games exclusive to SteamOS. Valve is basically offering as many options possible for the user and game developer out there that isn't strictly Windows or strictly Linux or strictly OSX.

Yet, we're complaining about the choices Valve is offering to us?

 

[Flogger23m]

I still fail to see how this has potential. The people they're aiming to sell these things to won't pay a premium for what they already have (a PC gaming rig). The only folks they'll swing will be the people who would have typically been buying Dell Alienware machines or something like that (a pre-fab gaming rig). But, since they have other people building these things they'll just have Dell and all the other pre-fab people sticking "Steam" on their PC's and offering an option to install SteamOS.

Parents buying it for the kid will be hard pressed to buy Jimmy a $2000 PC that he can effectively only game on. A $2000 PC that he can also do his homework on and all the other Windows things he normally does? Sure, they mentally justify that. Even my boss convinced himself that his son needed the Alienware gaming laptop for "school work".

Agreed. There will be cheap packages and they are "upgradable". But look at the layout - not a standard motherboard. Or at least it look some kind of adapter to get that GPU in that position. So what can you upgrade? The CPU, assuming there are BIOS updates? The GPU? Is the PSU up to par? If it isn't, can we replace that? Looks like only a few HDD/SSDs can fit in there.

That layout looks like a pain to work in. It is like buying a cheap $600 HP/Gateway and trying to stuff a bunch of gaming hardware into those tiny cases. Why bother? If you're really planning on upgrading or taking it apart, most will likely just buy parts with a larger case designed to do just that. So I don't see how it being "upgradable" and okay to open up is anything special.

I also don't see it making a big breakthrough in the console market. Most people play consoles because they are cheaper and simpler. That puts the $600+ models out of reach for most. The upgrading point is also moot with this audience.

In terms of multimedia capabilities, it is currently behind the new consoles and Windows PCs. I understand this will change over time and I am sure it can't be difficult to implement a media player, but why bother when Windows can do just that and more?

The only niche I see this fitting in is those people who play PC games and have friends/family they want to play these games with. When they are alone they play at their desktop, but when family/friends are over they play on the big screen TV on the couch. Though is Steam OS 100% compatible with all games currently on Steam? I doubt it is, which renders this advantage pointless. And some games just work terribly with a controller due to the lack of proper control and lack of buttons. I am thinking of flight sims (require lots of extra hardware), RTS games (keyboard + mouse) and driving games.

I am sure this controller will give more control than before, but you just can not play every type of PC game with it. Which is part of the draw in the first place towards PC gaming. PCs have a much wider range of game genres than consoles, partially due to the fact that consoles are controller based. If someone does not play these PC-specific genres, then there is probably a high chance they are console gamers in the first place.

And if you can not play your game of choice on the couch via Steam OS/box due to a lack of drivers/software for these advanced peripherals, then by bother? If you can only play basic console port type games why not just get an Xbox or Playstation?

I wish Valve luck, but I don't see much of an audience for this device.

 

[Flogger23m]

Is it a non-starter though? Because this seems to address the biggest (or one of the biggest) problems people have with PC gaming: you can just turn it on and it works. You plug it into your TV and turn it on and it boots into Steam. It is built like an enthusiast would build it and requres no configuration or installing of anything. So while you or I may not go for it, imagine someone on the fence who has the cash and really wants the versatility and graphics of PC gaming but doesn't have the time and/or knowledge to build their own gaming PC. Why wouldn't they jump all over this? Don't you think some people would buy an XBOX that cost twice as much if it gave them PC quality graphics?

If someone wanted a plug and play gaming machine they would buy a console. Essentially what you are saying is, will people buy a console that costs twice as much as its competitor when all it offers are better graphics. The answer is no for the vast majority of console gamers.

If that was the case, Sony (or Microsoft) could have slapped in a faster CPU/GPU and raised the price to $800-900. Obviously they are trying to keep the price down and are shooting for the $400-500 mark. Why? Because if they charge $900, people will go for the $400-500 option. If they wanted high end graphics they would spring for an expensive PC.

 

[RealityCrunch]

But look at the layout - not a standard motherboard. Or at least it look some kind of adapter to get that GPU in that position. So what can you upgrade? The CPU, assuming there are BIOS updates? The GPU? Is the PSU up to par? If it isn't, can we replace that? Looks like only a few HDD/SSDs can fit in there.

Since this is a prototype + beta testing product, I imagine it wasn't designed with users messing around with the parts as a priority. Ease of customization and layout will be up to the 3rd party manufacturers producing the final product.

 

[Tudz]

Agreed. There will be cheap packages and they are "upgradable". But look at the layout - not a standard motherboard. Or at least it look some kind of adapter to get that GPU in that position.

You can buy extensions for video cards to mount them in different orientations.
http://www.moddiy.com/products/PCI%...-(19cm).html?gclid=CLKVmsOqzLoCFUSi4Aod7ykA2Q

Looks like only a few HDD/SSDs can fit in there.

Looks standard to me, at first glance it doesn't even look like a 2.5" drive, looks like the standard 3.5" drive.

That layout looks like a pain to work in. It is like buying a cheap $600 HP/Gateway and trying to stuff a bunch of gaming hardware into those tiny cases. Why bother? If you're really planning on upgrading or taking it apart, most will likely just buy parts with a larger case designed to do just that. So I don't see how it being "upgradable" and okay to open up is anything special.

Small form factor is always a paint to work in, but if it cools fine, it's nice to have a smaller case. The main advantage of being upgradable is to extend the life of it, IMO. Want a bit more graphics? Upgrade the GPU. Want to cut down on load times? Get an SSD. Want more space? Get a bigger HDD. Need more RAM? Just throw some more in. Something breaks and it's out of warranty? Just buy a replacement part and swap it in.

Granted, I agree, I think the SteamBox has a massively tiny potential audience. It seems to me they're mostly aiming for the Alienware-type-person crowd, which I don't think is all that huge to begin with.

 

[Snowdog]

Looks standard to me, at first glance it doesn't even look like a 2.5" drive, looks like the standard 3.5" drive.

It is pretty much all standard PC HW. But the HW is nearly irrelevant, since you run it one what you want to run it on.

This is all about SteamOS. Can they convince anyone but some small fringe to abandon Windows for gaming on the PC, in favor of SteamOS?

The answer seems to be an emphatic. NO!

 

[Jagger100]

Which I have now done, and it doesnt mention anything about the drive. Who the hell would buy a system with an i7 + Titan with a mechanical HDD?

Don't install a lot of games locally, do you?

 

[Tudz]

It is pretty much all standard PC HW. But the HW is nearly irrelevant, since you run it one what you want to run it on.

This is all about SteamOS. Can they convince anyone but some small fringe to abandon Windows for gaming on the PC, in favor of SteamOS?

The answer seems to be an emphatic. NO!

Yeah, I'm not "against" SteamOS, but I do look at it and think "err, why?".