Valve sucks

[CrimandEvil]

It does mean nothing.

 

[xSystemFailurex]

Dude, go freaking watch Carmacks interview..please..

I'll do no such thing.
Just because he's (I assume) saying they're trying for an equal(ish) experience on both cards hardly makes it so.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

while this is pretty nice information and would help alot of NVidia users, all the VAVLe bashing in this thread is based on the ASSumption that the game doesn't need fp24 - has that been verified at all?

Please understand fp24 isn't needed or what is called for by Valve, it is fp32. Please understand this wouldn't be a problem if the FX line had the horsepower.

My 6800GT played HL2 1280x1024 4x AA / 16x AF with no problems.

 

[starhawk]

nobody remembers Doom3 anymore

actually... i do... and i plan to play it... however, i will never touch hl2.

 

[xSystemFailurex]

Bigger problem for the Nvidia ph@nboyZ is nobody remembers Doom3 anymore and it will be all about HL2 and it's mods for the next few years.

LOL, I think we can ALL agree on this!

 

[DropTech]

Please understand fp24 isn't needed or what is called for by Valve, it is fp32. Please understand this wouldn't be a problem if the FX line had the horsepower.

Please understand? Maybe you should? Valve doesn't call for either of those, it calls for full precision, which on ATi is 24, and nVidia is 32. The POINT of this thread is to point out that ON FX CARDS (regardless of your so called 'horsepower'), it would have been best to offer the mixed mode that they were going to do, but dropped.

 

[CrimandEvil]

I'll do no such thing.
Just because he's (I assume) saying they're trying for an equal(ish) experience on both cards hardly makes it so.

Thats right, it's all a big conspiracy. And Kerry really won.

 

[Lord of Shadows]

What was the topic of this thread again? Or does it matter anymore?

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

hl2 can kiss my ass..both cheeks

doom3 i have played beat and still play it here and there

i will never support a company like valve in anything they make...and i will also never touch an ati card. (they just left a very bad taste in my mouth)

i could rant and rant why i don't like both companys. but i am not going to do that. since that would be off topic.

but the point is people have started to find interesting things about hl2 and ati.

at least open your mind about it could be a possiblity that ati has been optimized and nVidia hasn't....

 

[Jbirney]

What I though/think is funny is there are screen shots that show you how bad it is and yet people still dont think Valve knows what they are doing...classic comdey folks...

 

[DropTech]

The difference is NV made their hardware for id's software......... Doesn't help that id used only NV hardware to code the game so pretty much same same?



Bigger problem for the Nvidia ph@nboyZ is nobody remembers Doom3 anymore and it will be all about HL2 and it's mods for the next few years.

I'm sorry, atleast id let ATi see their code for a while to help them because id knew that ATi's OpenGL performance was somewhat lacking. And um.. Mods? the Doom3.. There is a high res texture pack coming out sometime in January.. I'm waiting for it, it'll make the game a whole new experience.

 

[Wixard]

The difference is NV made their hardware for id's software......... Doesn't help that id used only NV hardware to code the game so pretty much same same?



Bigger problem for the Nvidia ph@nboyZ is nobody remembers Doom3 anymore and it will be all about HL2 and it's mods for the next few years.

Like a lot of people I don't plan to buy hl2 until it hits bargin bin price. Which is going to take a long time. I'm not a !!!!!!, I just havent heard many good things about it.

To many games coming out, or out I'd rather play. Vampire, il2 pacific, quake 4, and i still havent gotten far cry yet, not to mention NFSU. I'm gonna be poor

 

[^eMpTy^]

... And before the new optimized ATI drivers for doom 3, NOBODY ever cried! They simply accepted the fact that the game was made with Nvidia in mind.

Valve comes around and makes a game with ATI in mind, and the Nvidia ph@nboyZ prepare WWIII.

nobody ever cried? maybe if you weren't such a noobie, you would have heard some of the bitching...

 

[DropTech]

What I though/think is funny is there are screen shots that show you how bad it is and yet people still dont think Valve knows what they are doing...classic comdey folks...

How bad it is? At times, there's no difference. That's the point of people wanting the mixed mode that Valve originally planned. No one said Valve didn't know what they where doing -- just that it could have been done better.

 

[CrimandEvil]

The difference is NV made their hardware for id's software......... Doesn't help that id used only NV hardware to code the game so pretty much same same?

Which is why alot of the coding was done on the R300 and Carmack had even said that the 9700 Pro would be the best card for D3. Classic Rick, just classic.

I'm just waiting for you post that HL2 and ATI could cure Cancer.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Please understand? Maybe you should? Valve doesn't call for either of those, it calls for full precision, which on ATi is 24, and nVidia is 32. The POINT of this thread is to point out that ON FX CARDS (regardless of your so called 'horsepower'), it would have been best to offer the mixed mode that they were going to do, but dropped.

Have you been living in a barn? All ATI cards since the 9700 Pro have ran full fp24 even if the app requests fp32 (or partial). This is nothing new and only a concern because the FX line can't pull it's weight. Get over it and move along.

If you were Valve and trying to push a product out the door would you spend time coding for 2.5% of your userbase or actually do something else like at content or bug fix? It's all about value at that point. Maybe you guys should go scream on the Nvidia forums and ask them why the FX line can't run full percision?

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Which is why alot of the coding was done on the R300 and Carmack had even said that the 9700 Pro would be the best card for D3. Classic Rick, just classic.

Link?

I'm just waiting for you post that HL2 and ATI could cure Cancer.

I actually finished HL2 with my 6800GT thank you very much.

 

[xSystemFailurex]

Which is why alot of the coding was done on the R300 and Carmack had even said that the 9700 Pro would be the best card for D3. Classic Rick, just classic.

I'm just waiting for you post that HL2 and ATI could cure Cancer.

...Not to mention the fact that you should TOTALLY believe someone who wants his game to sell good to both Nvidia and ATI card owners...

I mean, it's not like he's trying to turn a profit...

 

[starhawk]

What was the topic of this thread again? Or does it matter anymore?

i'm not sure it does. it's really interesting how every single thread about hl2 winds up a flame-fest. makes me think that maybe VALVe hired people to make that happen... and then i blink a few times and return to reality.

 

[CrimandEvil]

he did. morally if not really. www.sorryeverybody.com

Just because a bunch of morons hold up notepads doesn't mean he did, it was Kerry's race to lose and he should have done a better job.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

...Not to mention the fact that you should TOTALLY believe someone who wants his game to sell good to both Nvidia and ATI card owners...

I mean, it's not like he's trying to turn a profit...

And explains why Doom3 now sells for 29.00. lol

 

[starhawk]

hl2 can kiss my ass..both cheeks

doom3 i have played beat and still play it here and there

i will never support a company like valve in anything they make...and i will also never touch an ati card. (they just left a very bad taste in my mouth)

i could rant and rant why i don't like both companys. but i am not going to do that. since that would be off topic.

but the point is people have started to find interesting things about hl2 and ati.

at least open your mind about it could be a possiblity that ati has been optimized and nVidia hasn't....

thank the lord... somebody here has actually displayed intelligence. i was beginning to worry, since i hadn't seen it in about the past 4 hours.

if anyone wants to sell me a copy of doom 3, pm me with your asking price.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

if anyone wants to sell me a copy of doom 3, pm me with your asking price.

It cost about the same to ship as in the store these days.

 

[DropTech]

Have you been living in a barn? All ATI cards since the 9700 Pro have ran full fp24 even if the app requests fp32. This is nothing new and only a concern because the FX line can't pull it's weight. Get over it and move along.

If you were Valve and trying to push a product out the door would you spend time coding for 2.5% of your userbase or actually do something else? It's all about value at that point. Maybe you guys should go scream on the Nvidia forums about way the FX line can't run full percision?

Two things

"Have you been living in a barn? All ATI cards since the 9700 Pro have ran full fp24 even if the app requests fp32. This is nothing new and only a concern because the FX line can't pull it's weight. Get over it and move along."

I never said anything different -- I only said that it request full percision which is where the FX is hit most in DirectX9 mode, regardless of your so called 'horsepower'.

Also,

"Maybe you guys should go scream on the Nvidia forums about way the FX line can't run full percision?"

Am I missing something, or can the FX not run FP32?... No one ever said it couldn't... however -- the point is that it should have been offered by Valve (15.4 percent is a little bit bigger then 2.4% buddy..) in order to achieve 'full graphical glory' to implement on the FX series a option to used a mixed mode.

Valve was going to do this.. but disbannded it all the sudden? Hm... not to mention all the 'shit' that Gabe threw at the FX series.
^^^^^^
That above doesn't say anything?.. Hm, if not.. that's just sad.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Just because a bunch of morons hold up notepads doesn't mean he did, it was Kerry's race to lose and he should have done a better job.

amen

 

[DropTech]

amen

Ditto.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

Can anyone with Bloodlines and a FX5xxx series videocard try this out and post if it helps the games fps or does it cause graphical errors.

I would test this but I have an ATi 9800pro o/c past XT speeds, I did try this and maybe got a few fps outside.

Anyway the reason I'm asking is because at the White Wolf forums and some other forums for this game alot people could use a performance boost in this game.

If anyone has played the game... then you know how slow it can get in the hubs and other levels, like the Bishop Vic level(end quest for plague bearer mission).

Thanks in advance.

 

[CrimandEvil]

LMAO, something Rick and I can agree on.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

It cost about the same to ship as in the store these days.

really?

so i sold him a copy for lets say 10 dollars. and have him d/l it off me with a legit key. would he still have to pay shipping?

i have 3 copies of doom3. and i will be keeping all 3

sorry man

but doom3 imo looks a hell of alot better than hl2 will ever...

carmack can code, and codes with all kinds of hardware in mind. but just one.

NV made a card around doom3. valve made hl2 around ati cards..very big differnce...

both cards used the same path. what all the ati fanny boys forgot is that ati at that time sucked at opengl and imo i think still does

 

[CrimandEvil]

Wouldn't work anyways with an ATI card, ATi can only run at 24-bit.

Can anyone with Bloodlines and a FX5xxx series videocard try this out and post if it helps the games fps or does it cause graphical errors.

I would test this but I have an ATi 9800pro o/c past XT speeds, I did try this and maybe got a few fps outside.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

No one ever said it couldn't... however -- the point is that it should have been offered by Valve (15.4 percent is a little bit bigger then 2.4% buddy..) in order to achieve 'full graphical glory' to implement on the FX series a option to used a mixed mode.

Steam stats indicate that there are about 245,000 FX boards in total, which represents about 18.9% of their total userbase, however the number of boards that they stated they would not treat as DX8 for the FX series is 33,047 or 2.55% of their userbase. Conversly, the number of DX9 ATI boards is 386,956 or 29.85% of their userbase - and these will recieve no benefit from extra effort in coding and supporting different precisions.

Do you wanna continue this?

 

[starhawk]

It cost about the same to ship as in the store these days.

hmpf. my offer still stands... for anyone willing to sell their copy of doom 3 for less than store price, pm me plz!

 

[EvilSpock]

With no test results insight for tonight and my head about to asplode from all the "ATI this, Nividia that, HL2 here and a D3 there, here a DX9 there a DX81" I'm going to bed.
But before I do just to add my 110 octane to the flame war.
I bought the HL2 / CSs dvd set and out the box both were broke - same issues for both - stuttering and 'The Instruction at 0x####### referenced memory at 0x#######. The memory could not be 'read' issue that still isn't fixed. They were far more broke then any game I purchased during the past year. D3 I can say worked 100% for me. And yes I do think Vavle should give you full DX control settings instead of having to use a hack and fake the program by saying the 5950 in your box is really a 9800pro.

 

[CleanSlate]

Zeus you bought three doom3's for yourself?

~Adam

 

[DropTech]

Steam stats indicate that there are about 245,000 FX boards in total, which represents about 18.9% of their total userbase, however the number of boards that they stated they would not treat as DX8 for the FX series is 33,047 or 2.55% of their userbase. Conversly, the number of DX9 ATI boards is 386,956 or 29.85% of their userbase - and these will recieve no benefit from extra effort in coding and supporting different precisions.

Do you wanna continue this?

I just wanna see where you coming from. So you're saying that because 2.5% can run it outta the box at DX9 means that the other 14.4% that have a DX9 card, regardless of how poorly it can be, doesn't deserve a DX9 mode?

o-O I dun remember the site to the Steam thing.. you got a link to it? I dun remember how many people are running MX's.. a friend doesn't believe that there are so many.

[EDIT]Also Rick, I am starting to see where you're coming from, but this thread does more then either bash Valve or indicated that they need to add a DX9 mode for FX cards.

It also indicates that there is something wrong when as soon as you recognize the card as an ATi card, it fixes graphical glitches. That is still in speculation.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Zeus you bought three doom3's for yourself?

~Adam

yes i did
so me and my brothers could play toghter =]

 

[starhawk]

Zeus you bought three doom3's for yourself?

~Adam

doesn't make much sense to me...

hey zeus... $30+shipping sez you'll have only 2 copies soon!

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

doesn't make much sense to me...

hey zeus... $30+shipping sez you'll have only 2 copies soon!

i bought my copies at bestbuy the day doom3 came out...
they where the last 3

 

[CrimandEvil]

From what I remember (the link is somewhere in this thread) people with MXs' are second most used video cards.

 

[Jbirney]

How bad it is? At times, there's no difference. That's the point of people wanting the mixed mode that Valve originally planned. No one said Valve didn't know what they where doing -- just that it could have been done better.

Did you see the pictures? The banding is something you can spot right away.. Yes it would have been nice if they added it. But they didn't. I dont care for the method that Crytex chose for HDR as my old 9700pro can handle many forums of HDR but the one they chose. would have been nice for them to code in a fall back but they didn't. Some times stuff like this happens. And we deal with it...or make a bunch of posts