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V-Sync: Am I doing it wrong?!?

D

dangled

n00b
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
3
I'm an old-school PC gamer, and I've always tried to leave v-sync enabled in the games I play in order to reduce visible tearing. Now I'm seeing posts from the Skyrim players saying that the game runs smoother without v-sync.

Am I overthinking this, and I should just leave it enabled whenever possible, or should I leave v-sync-disabled as a general rule with today's games.

FYI: I'm playing BF3, Skyrim, Tribes beta...
 
My experience is that my framerate drops when I enable v-sync. I always turn it off. If you have significant screen tearing and it bothers you, you can enable v-sync to stop the tearing at the cost of a performance hit.
 
Games are always better w/ V-sync, but V-sync also always has a performance cost.

By "running smoother", they just mean you're likely to have less framerate issues, since this is a graphically intensive games that can cause lesser systems to struggle. If your framerate is high, leave v-sync on.
 
Vsync is setting created specifically to address the problem of tearing, however it's not without it's own issues. There's 2 main downsides to vsync:

1) Potentially reduced frame rate - in order to lock your frame rate in sync with your refresh rate some frames need to be ignored because they're not ready in time for the monitor to do it's next refresh, this means your frame rate can plumet sharply during gameplay.

2) Latency - what is commonly referred to "input lag" which is actually display lag, it makes things like mouse control really hard because there is a greater delay between mouse actions and the result appearing on screen.

People are sensitive to some of these issues more than others so it's really a matter of preference, I personally cannot stand mouse lag in FPS games so I always force Vsync off, it makes competitive play almost impossible, I also dislike the inconsistency of the frame rate, games these days tend to have unbalanced graphics so some areas are way more demanding to render than others and this creates wildly fluctuating frame rates.

You can use tripple buffering to improve some of these problems, the problem is that it's not well supported out of the box, some games such as valves titles have in game options for this but most unfortunately do not (driver options for this often don't apply properly, for example AMD's driver option only applies to OpenGL game). Tripple buffering helps somewhat, however I still prefer it off.

I've gone in to this in depth in other posts before, I personally believe that the screen tearing allows you to see more information on the screen than with vsync, if your frame rate exceeds your monitors refresh rate then you get more accurate representation of the game world on screen even though you're still only running at 60Hz (typically) and to me that makes games appear smoother, and fortunately for me I am not terribly bothered by tearing.
 
UtopiA said:
I disable VSync and use a frame limiter to cap games to 60fps.
Click to expand...

This doesn't eliminate tearing however it can reduce it (since tearing gets worse the higher your frame rate is).

Limiting frame rate doesn't guarantee that frames are in sync with your monitor, but at most you'll get 1 tear line per frame instead of potentially many, that might be enough for some people since I have gamer friends who find tearing hard to see unless their refresh rate is like 300fps where each frame is tearing several times.
 
"Old school" gamers have always mostly disabled vsync. Lots of games perform very badly with vsync on. Some perform smoother (not faster) with it on though so you have to experiment. When I see bad hitching in a game it is often caused by vsync. I remember in one of ISI F1 games going around corners would cause a hitch with vsync on, turn vsync off and hitching was gone.
 
Recently I have been considering getting a 120hz monitor in order to run games without vsync and without worrying about screen tear.
 
I'm one of the old school gamers who prefers Vsync ON for most games. By most games, I mean single player games such as Skyrim, Saints Row 3 since the games are not dependent on twitch reflexes. Competitive MP games such as BF3, Vsync is always OFF.

I much prefer the smoother feel with Vsync enabled, but it really does depend on the game. High movement/action games (Like Saints 3) screen tearing becomes much more obvious. Although screen tearing is very noticable in BF3, vsync off definitely helps with reaction time. Those milliseconds really count. With games like Skyrim, having the smoother framerate with no tearing improves immersion and IMO is much better for taking in the vistas and environs. Still, it is all very subjective and really up to the eye of the beholder.

Typically, I wont see a performance hit with Vsync on unless triple buffering is not available and the framerate dips below monitor refresh rate of 60hz. In those cases, a game will lock to 30fps until the framerate goes above 60fps. I havent seen this to be much of a problem with modern games (and hardware) and usually you can use a 3rd party tool to enable triple buffer (havent needed one in recent memory).

Recently I have been considering getting a 120hz monitor in order to run games without vsync and without worrying about screen tear.
Click to expand...

It's important to note, a 120hz monitor will not eliminate screen tearing in all scenarios. It is still dependant on framerate.
 
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Use D3DOverrider to force vsync and triple buffering on all directx games (99%). This gives you smooth fps (60 fps cap) and tear free experience without the input lag because of the triple buffering.
 
For me, if I'm playing a single-player game where precision isn't entirely needed, I enable V-sync to remove tearing. However, if I'm playing a multi-player game where precision is required, V-sync is always disabled. Sure, there's some tearing, but it's ultimately not that important.
 
Screen tearing annoys the hell out of me. I've tried turning it off (performance definitely goes up) but I get fed up within minutes. I don't see much value in cranking up details and AA only to have my screen turn into a streaky mess every time I adjust the camera.
 
mr_zen256 said:
It's important to note, a 120hz monitor will not eliminate screen tearing in all scenarios. It is still dependant on framerate.
Click to expand...

I think he meant to say with vsync on. I was thinking of getting one too so that I can use Vsync and still get over 60fps in some games.

I also have Nvdia 3D vision but currently use that on another PC with GTX460 and a CRT. I would have to buy 120hz monitor *and* a new Nvidia video card. Just looked at GTX580 prices and they are still horribly overpriced so will wait a bit still.
 
Knil said:
Use D3DOverrider to force vsync and triple buffering on all directx games (99%). This gives you smooth fps (60 fps cap) and tear free experience without the input lag because of the triple buffering.
Click to expand...

On ATI cards it is better to use RadeonPro to do that because it also has other tweaks and features that are very useful.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Vsync is setting created specifically to address the problem of tearing, however it's not without it's own issues. There's 2 main downsides to vsync:

1) Potentially reduced frame rate - in order to lock your frame rate in sync with your refresh rate some frames need to be ignored because they're not ready in time for the monitor to do it's next refresh, this means your frame rate can plumet sharply during gameplay.

2) Latency - what is commonly referred to "input lag" which is actually display lag, it makes things like mouse control really hard because there is a greater delay between mouse actions and the result appearing on screen.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, i finally understand
 
The best way I've found to use Vsync is in conjunction with a frame limiter. The lag comes in anytime your FPS is greater than you refresh rate. Setting the frame rate limit to 1 fps less than you refresh removes any of the input lag issues associated with vsync.

This post here goes over it a bit in point 4. If you search around on google, you can find more information. I've been using Dxtory to limit my FPS to 59, and it made a HUGE difference with DX:HR and allows me to run vsync without the performance or lag issues.
 
mr_zen256 said:
It's important to note, a 120hz monitor will not eliminate screen tearing in all scenarios. It is still dependant on framerate.
Click to expand...

This is correct.

Tearing happens on all configurations of hardware without v-sync enabled, it occurs at all frame rates, that includes frame rates that are slower than your refresh rate, and even if you frame rate is exactly the same as your refresh rate (limited) it still tears.

Generally speaking the higher the frame rate the more tear lines you'll get per frame. If your refresh rate is 60Hz then you'll tear on average once per refresh if you frame rate is approximately 60fps, if you run at about 120fps you'll tear on average twice per refresh, 180fps you'll tear on average 3x, etc.

The same happens the other way, at approximate 30fps (a frame rate approx half your refresh rate) you'll tear once on about 1/2 your refreshes, 15fps you'll tear once on approx 1/4 of your refreshes.

A 120hz monitor wont help tearing, with the same frame rate you'll still tear the same number of times per second although it will be less tear lines per refresh (but more refreshes)

Running a 120hz monitor with vsync would be a bad move without some serious hardware in your PC, or unless you're prepared to turn down the visuals. The reason for this is that vsync caps your frame rate at the monitors refresh rate, however if the PC can't render the frames fast enough then vsync does the next best thing and cap the frame rate at some fraction of the refresh rate, first 1/2, then 1/3, then 1/4 etc

So unless you can achieve 120fps minimum frame rate (at least 150fps average FPS) then vsync will fail to lock the FPS at 120 and resort to 60fps (1/2), and if you dip below 60fps then it will limit to 40fps (1/3), then 30fps (1/4) etc.
 
By default I leave it off. If I notice a lot of tearing, I'll turn it on. If that creates too much input lag, I'll turn it off again.

When the game supports it, I'll also cap the framerate at 60fps, or 30 if it's a game where I can rarely get beyond 45fps (though I haven't done 30 since 2005).
 
noobman said:
By default I leave it off. If I notice a lot of tearing, I'll turn it on. If that creates too much input lag, I'll turn it off again.
Click to expand...

This. No need to over-analyze it. Keep it simple.
 
I still have a CRT on a second computer and with vsync off tearing is much less noticeable than on an LCD. If you are a competitive MP gamer then CRT>LCD.
 
I usually leave it off, but I get motion-sick in some games, and turning on V-sync fixes that.
 
Gnasher said:
I still have a CRT on a second computer and with vsync off tearing is much less noticeable than on an LCD. If you are a competitive MP gamer then CRT>LCD.
Click to expand...

Debatable with some of these fast response time, 120hz screens coming out. They may not eliminate screen tear but they definitely make a massive difference.
 
I usually leave it on, I get lower temps for my gpu. Ex: BF3 with vsync off has gone up to 80C, with it on it stays in the 60C range.
 
I NEVER use in game VSYNC because it slows down my FPS. Instead I use D3DOverider on my desktop to force triple buffering VSYNC there, which actually is more effecient and I tend to get an additional 5-6 FPS in most games.. with zero tearing.

D3DOverider installs with Rivatuner, learn it, love it.
 
theNoid said:
I NEVER use in game VSYNC because it slows down my FPS. Instead I use D3DOverider on my desktop to force triple buffering VSYNC there, which actually is more effecient and I tend to get an additional 5-6 FPS in most games.. with zero tearing.

D3DOverider installs with Rivatuner, learn it, love it.
Click to expand...

no shit? Vsync on with increase in fps?

Is input lag minimal since you can turn on tripple-buffering?

I think i'll have to check that shit out tonight.
 
I only avoided vsync when my computer wasn't fast enough to run games at my monitor's refresh rate (long ago). I've been using Skyrim's vsync and it runs fine; it's nice that it doesn't hitch like Oblivion did even on modern systems. For all the silly bugs Skyrim has, the game actually runs pretty well.

I believe that the reason people feel "input lag" with vsync is because they're trying to run a game at a detail level that their PC/GPU can't provide a solid frame rate for. Understanding vsync is very easy: your PC needs to be able to consistently output a frame rate greater than the refresh rate of your monitor to keep the game feeling snappy. If your monitor is set at 60Hz then your system needs to be capable of rendering 60FPS 100% of the time or the game will slow down (lag) until you get to an area that is rendering at 60FPS.
 
djoye said:
I only avoided vsync when my computer wasn't fast enough to run games at my monitor's refresh rate (long ago). I've been using Skyrim's vsync and it runs fine; it's nice that it doesn't hitch like Oblivion did even on modern systems. For all the silly bugs Skyrim has, the game actually runs pretty well.

I believe that the reason people feel "input lag" with vsync is because they're trying to run a game at a detail level that their PC/GPU can't provide a solid frame rate for. Understanding vsync is very easy: your PC needs to be able to consistently output a frame rate greater than the refresh rate of your monitor to keep the game feeling snappy. If your monitor is set at 60Hz then your system needs to be capable of rendering 60FPS 100% of the time or the game will slow down (lag) until you get to an area that is rendering at 60FPS.
Click to expand...

Yea, i finally understand now... pretty hard to do that in Skyrim though, as towns are 24fps and outside is 60... i'd have to tank my settings = /

I really hope that Bethesda puts out a patch to make the game better utilize system resources
 
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