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Using a subwoofer with pc, didn't make much difference

M

MrCrispy

2[H]4U
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
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My soundcard is onboard audio from Realtek ALC888. I'm using active monitors (MS40) and attached the sub to the sub-out from the sound card, but it didn't add much to the sound. I used 'bass management' in the Windows sound enhancements to set the crossover freq for the sub. Without that it gets no signal at all. Even with that, it doesn't sound nearly as good as it should. I can hear some effects in movies with AC3, but for music its lacking. I have to turn the sub up a lot more too. It's an SVS cylinder from my main system, so I know its pretty good.

Will using a receiver (via s/pdif) make a difference, or is it the sound card? I went this route after getting rid of my Logitech's and was honestly expecting that adding a sub would give me much better bass.
 
Bass is a weird fish in that it resonates in the room and thus is less directional.
It will be louder in some parts of the room than others.

So you need to place the sub and maybe your seat correctly in the room to get decent bass levels.
Use the equalizer or tone controls in Windows to increase bass if the response is too weak.

Start by playing a bassy track and walk round the room to find where bass is strongest.
There may be more than one place, so choose which is preferred and put the sub there.
You can finish there or walk round the room again and place the seat where the bass is strongest.
 
Location, location, location.

Subwoofer troubleshooting:

(1) make sure it's hooked up correctly
(2) make sure it's placed correctly
 
If you are actually getting sound then that's a start, like other said, the positioning might have a little to do with it. I've avoided using more than 2.0 channels with onboard sound. If you're setting a crossover frequency for the sub in Windows then that's good, that means it's at least trying to redirect XXHz frequencies to the sub channel. If that subwoofer has any controls on it then you might want to make sure the sub isn't cutting off any sound.

I would think you would get better bass from using a receiver. I have an X-Fi with an Onkyo receiver, for games I use the 7.1 direct input on the receiver and for music I switch to AUX which is configured for SPDIF. The music seems a bit sharper when using SPDIF and the bass is more defined, or something.

Don't those ALC sound drivers have their own audio control software? I'd dig around in that; I'd think that you should be able to get some decent bass redirection playing music.
 
Ok, moving it closer to the wall increases the output a bit. Its still nothing like what I'd like - i.e. justify the addition of a dedicated sub to my pc setup. The Realtek control panel has a bunch of equalizer and room effects, but that's just post-processing, nothing that actually lets me control crossover. I've set the mains to small.

At this point I'm thinking a receiver would do a better job. I don't see the need to get a sound card cause I'd just be using the SPDIF out for everything. On my MS40 I did some a/b listening using both the digital and analog inputs and strangely, analog sounds fuller.
 
I have 2.0 soundcard (m-audio audiophile) -> 2.0 amp->(high level input) subwoofer ->passive speakers and everything is modestly priced at best and the sub makes incredible difference in the system when listening to music. However, when trying using LFE from another sound card right into sub, it was pretty bad like you described... at least for music but I didn't bother playing with settings.
 
Funny enough, "sub out" isn't good for subwoofers at all. You need to connect the sub to your main output.
 
Why do you say that?

It depends if the sound card crossover is better than the one in the sub. And if the sound card has separate outs for LCR and sub (like mine does) then you'd have to disable the sub out somehow.
 
Never trust software crossovers. Never ever. In fact, if you need software to get any sound (Realtek is especially horrible with their stuff, having a dozen background apps that eat 50 MB of memory), then you need to get a real soundcard ;)

"Sub out" is "central channel" (and there is no central channel in stereo, hence no output at all; if there is, the card is faulty). If you have a separate subwoofer output, it's not a part of any standard and it's just the card pretending to play smart and engage in god knows what kind of mixing and sound mutilation in order to pick out the low frequencies... If it even manages to do that in the first place, which doesn't seem to be the case on your system.
 
MrCrispy said:
Ok, moving it closer to the wall increases the output a bit. Its still nothing like what I'd like - i.e. justify the addition of a dedicated sub to my pc setup. The Realtek control panel has a bunch of equalizer and room effects, but that's just post-processing, nothing that actually lets me control crossover. I've set the mains to small.

At this point I'm thinking a receiver would do a better job. I don't see the need to get a sound card cause I'd just be using the SPDIF out for everything. On my MS40 I did some a/b listening using both the digital and analog inputs and strangely, analog sounds fuller.
Click to expand...

Just putting the sub closer to the wall may not be all that you need.
There ARE parts of the room that respond better to bass and there ARE parts of the room that are terrible for bass, you need to locate the sub properly and maybe your seat too, as mentioned more than once.

A single wall can add up to 3dB to the subs sound (effectively 2x the sound output power).
A corner can add up to another 3dB to 6dB total (4x output power).
How close to the wall(s) you place the sub will vary the amplitude of frequencies that the sub responds to.
Closer to the wall reduces lower frequency bass and increases upper bass, too close to the wall results in bass boom.
The Phase control (available on most high spec subs) is vital to get deep extended bass, make sure this is set up properly otherwise your sub may be running antiphase with your main speakers.

Your speakers and sub are active so a new receiver will do very little to change their sound because the amps in the receiver wont be used at all !
Anything a cheaper receiver can do for bass can be performed by your PC with just as good quality, a receiver is a waste of money if you only need to sort bass out and imo is a waste of money for your setup full stop.
You are better off with a high quality soundcard.
""Even with a receiver"", you still need to use the soundcards bass redirection feature to get sub bass other than from the LFE channel, but as soon as redirect bass is used, that lower bass isnt sent to the main speakers which is ridiculous!! My solution to this is below, see ***.

I'm using an Onkyo 875 amp in Pure Analogue mode, none of the amps controls are being used at all, except volume, this gives much preferred sound quality.
All equalisation is performed in Windows by my soundcard, the Auzentech Prelude.
So my setup is running pure analogue, my amplifier is used as only that, an amplifier.

***I have disabled use of the LFE "channel" so LFE is fed to the other speakers.
Music/video players are configured to not use the LFE channel so they feed LFE to the other speakers.
I did this because I too was very dissatisfied with the way that bass redirection kills bass to my main speakers.
My sub now takes its input from the front speakers amplified outputs on my receiver so it doesnt just respond to LFE bass but responds to all bass. I tune/match the subs response with its own controls.
Using high level (amplified) inputs to the sub may be possible with your sub too but you dont have an external amplifier so...
Instead, you can feed front speaker low level output to your subs normal low level input (you may need to double the connector up as you are probably already using these outputs with your main speakers).
To be clear, both my sub and front speakers now respond to ALL bass.

A good way to improve a subs bass (**assuming you have the sub you want and it is already well set up/positioned**) is to use a bass control unit which has much greater finesse, like this:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/eq-2-review
I intend to get a better one but this will help you and is damn cheap which is why I mentioned it.
It is however not 'easy' to set up.
Look around for others if interested and you have already set the sub up as best you can.

There is a LOT more I could have written but I'm trying not to bore you.
If you need clarification or if what I posted doesnt make sense, please ask.
 
Last edited:
Nenu said:
""Even with a receiver"", you still need to use the soundcards bass redirection feature to get sub bass other than from the LFE channel.
Click to expand...
Not entirely true, that is the way it works in your setup with your settings.
I run a spdif signal to my receiver and do not have the limitation you have mentioned.
 
Snufykat said:
Not entirely true, that is the way it works in your setup with your settings.
I run a spdif signal to my receiver and do not have the limitation you have mentioned.
Click to expand...

Your receiver may have a double bass option (or similar) to allow the sub and speakers to both receive full bass.
Can you configure the amp to run in pure audio mode and compare that to your current mode? This will compare using the EQ/speaker configs vs no EQ or speaker configs.
Failing that, its possible your soundcard has options to send bass to both, which card are you using?

You are right, too many things can influence the setup.
I'm doing my best to present usable options.
Once the op comes back, we can see what is relevant for him.


I have an ammendment to something I wrote earlier about disabling the LFE channel:
In Windows XP I had to use software player configurations to prevent the LFE effects channel being used.
In Windows 7 (and probably Vista), I just found that you can select 5.1 speakers and then disable the subwoofer to give a 5.0 setup.
This automatically feeds the LFE effects to all full frequency speakers (as configured), so no need for messing with other software.
I'm really happy about this!!
 
Nenu said:
Your receiver may have a double bass option (or similar) to allow the sub and speakers to both receive full bass.
Click to expand...

He may just have a normal receiver with bass redirection. A great many receivers have built in bass redirection, often assignable per channel group. You set a crossover point and everything below that goes to the sub, not to the speakers, regardless of what channel it came in on. This is in addition to data on the LFE channel.

This is how it works in theaters. They don't do full range speakers. In fact the THX spec as originally designed didn't allow for full range satellites. They were speced to roll off at 80Hz, 12dB per octave. To that an 80Hz 12dB per octave electronic filter was added, giving a 24dB/octave total crossover.

So on most home receivers if speakers are set to "small" any bass under the crossover point is redirected. If speakers are set to large, no bass is redirected. Some receivers do have a double bass feature in which speakers set to large get channel bass, and it is alos sent to the sub.

However with a normal receiver there's no need to cross over things on your soundcard and indeed reasons not to. I run my X-Fi with no crossover feeding to my reciever, and it then handles all teh bass redirection. My sub gets plenty of work, believe me.

Now I should note that this all applies to digital inputs. Many receivers do NOT do bass redirection on analogue inputs since they lack an analogue crossover. A few have one, a few others digitize the signal from analogue inputs, but most just pass it thorough, and thus do no redirection.
 
1) My soundcard is onboard audio from Realtek ALC888.
- Not the best but shouldn't be having a ruinous influence.

2) I'm using active monitors (MS40) and attached the sub to the sub-out from the sound card, but it didn't add much to the sound
- Don't use the dedicated sub out. Try running the 2 channel output to the sub first then from the sub to the speakers. This cuts out a lot of software that doesn't always play nicely together.

3) I used 'bass management' in the Windows sound enhancements to set the crossover freq for the sub.
- If you run the output to the sub first, it will 'grab' all the low frequencies it wants then pass on the rest to the speakers. Don't bother with the software controls in this case.

4) Will using a receiver (via s/pdif) make a difference, or is it the sound card?
- You have active monitors, using a receiver won't change a thing for them. I suspect your sub problem has more to do with the soundcard's way of deciding what to do with the signal.
 
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