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UPS vs nice surge protector?

T

thekipper

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
471
Hi,
This would be for my HTPC/gaming rig, swtich, PS3, 360 and a Yamaha AVR. I really don't want to drop 190USD on a ups unless I have to since the HX750 would require a pure sine wave.

Right now, it's just on a surge protector.

Thanks!
Kip
 
So what is the question? I mean if you do not need a UPS don't get one. In either case you still need a surge protector. UPSs do not have the best surge protection. If you do get a UPS plug that into the surge protector. Running with a surge protector plugged into a UPS can decrease your battery run time.
 
The surge protection capabilities of UPS's range from non-existent to very good.

It's much more hit or miss with a "stand alone" surge protector. I wouldn't trust any brands other than Tripp Lite or Panamax.

All of that said, there is no better power protection than an "On Line UPS", also known as a "double conversion UPS" (instead of a "Standby or "Line Interactive" UPS). Utility power comes in and is converted to DC, which is used to recharge a battery pack. An inverter is used to convert battery power into perfect sine-wave AC. Your equipment is completely isolated from outside power and always receives flawless AC.

The only downside is slightly higher energy usage and there is always a fan running to keep the inverter cool, so it may be too noisy for a particular environment.

Cheapest Online UPS is about $400 from Cyberpower for the 1000w OL1000RTXL2U. A good investment in my opinion, as all the equipment I've ever had connected to online UPS's seem to last forever...like servers running 24/7 for 8 years.
 
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So you're saying an HX750 is a piece of trash? I don't think so. Why would a good PSU require ultra clean signal? Doesn't make sense to me.

Anyhow... neither a cheap UPS or a surge protector provide line conditioning... well, you could argue that a cheap UPS does somewhat as long as you're fine with steps instead of curves.

IMHO, most of the damage I've seen to PSUs (in particular) comes from sags and not surges, though a good surge can be a good instantaneous "fry"... the sags will affect the equipment over time.

A cheap UPS, as long as you don't require pretty curves, at least protects against both kinds of things (in general).

How much is your end equipment worth to you? If you're working on a multi-million dollar "thing" using your computer, that $400+ seems well spent.... doesn't it?

Most surge protectors don't work right anyhow (just saying). My guess is you bought a typical one, which means very little protection if any.

The day you lose it all on that (almighty) surge protector may well be the day you decide that UPS is an (ongoing) expense that is worth it.

With that said, if you don't do anything important with the equipment and don't mind it slowly dying... then it doesn't really matter (every person's situation is different).
 
Yeah I was confused by the assumption that the HX750 would need a pure sine wave. That's not what I would have guessed. That's more like... If you are running off a generator maybe?

Anyway I just put my main system, modem and router on a CyberPower 810Watt UPS with line conditioning and surge protection. Thing was only 130 dollars. It's certainly not completely useless as far as surge protection is concerned. I expect it would take itself out and save my system, but if not, oh well, home owner's insurance will cover them both. I don't know if my cable internet service will stay on if there is a large power outage, but I got the unit with a little bit of line conditioning in mind for cleaner power and then the other functions are bonuses. You aren't likely to find a basic line-conitioner for much less anyway, right? I'm just learning about this crap, though.
 
Lol, no, I'm not saying the HX750 is a piece of trash. As a consumer, I am however confused by the PFC thing. From what I've read, a PFC power supply would be best served by a pure sine wave UPS. But then I've also read that is a not a requirement so I'm confused:)

Yes, I want to protect my stuff but I also want to by what is necessary to the job correctly.

So does the HX750 require a pure sine wave ups or will it perform the same with a stepped sine wave ups? That's what I'd really like to know.

Thanks!


cjcox said:
So you're saying an HX750 is a piece of trash? I don't think so. Why would a good PSU require ultra clean signal? Doesn't make sense to me.

Anyhow... neither a cheap UPS or a surge protector provide line conditioning... well, you could argue that a cheap UPS does somewhat as long as you're fine with steps instead of curves.

IMHO, most of the damage I've seen to PSUs (in particular) comes from sags and not surges, though a good surge can be a good instantaneous "fry"... the sags will affect the equipment over time.

A cheap UPS, as long as you don't require pretty curves, at least protects against both kinds of things (in general).

How much is your end equipment worth to you? If you're working on a multi-million dollar "thing" using your computer, that $400+ seems well spent.... doesn't it?

Most surge protectors don't work right anyhow (just saying). My guess is you bought a typical one, which means very little protection if any.

The day you lose it all on that (almighty) surge protector may well be the day you decide that UPS is an (ongoing) expense that is worth it.

With that said, if you don't do anything important with the equipment and don't mind it slowly dying... then it doesn't really matter (every person's situation is different).
Click to expand...
 
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I've had a Tripp Lite Omni VS1500 for over six years and haven't looked back. A few months ago I replaced the batteries. For the first 2 or 3 years, I the batteries would give me a backup for several minutes during an outage. Then the current would still pass through the batteries although I wouldn't have power during an outage. But I had stopped losing a stick of RAM every time there was an outage. Then one day batteries seemed completely dead and would not allow any current to the electrical outlets. I got new batteries from UPS battery center.com on Amazon.com and it's running fine now. The last time there was a blackout, I had electricity to a 30 watt light and a radio for about 2 hours.

I wouldn't trust the lower cost UPS units because often they won't have Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR) and they don't get good reviews. I have a Belkin power surge/power bar whatever you call it that was like $35 and it didn't do much to stop surges or whatever that caused me to lose sticks of RAM.

As a matter of fact, on some days the AVR light on my Tripp Lite Omni VS1500 comes on several times a day.
 
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thekipper said:
Lol, no, I'm not saying the HX750 is a piece of trash. As a consumer, I am however confused by the PFC thing. From what I've read, a PFC power supply would be best served by a pure sine wave UPS. But then I've also read that is a not a requirement so I'm confused:)

Yes, I want to protect my stuff but I also want to by what is necessary to the job correctly.

So does the HX750 require a pure sine wave ups or will it perform the same with a stepped sine wave ups? That's what I'd really like to know.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be a problem with newer ones. I've got an Active PFC power supply that runs fine on a APC stepped approximation UPS. It's a ~6 year old Back-UPS XS 1300 as I recall, somewhat overkill of a purchase there.
 
It's not so much that a good power supply requires pure sine wave AC, but that an online UPS completely isolates your equipment from all power fluctuations and electrical noise.

Attach a variac to a line interactive UPS and run the AC voltage up and down. If you measure the output of the UPS, you'll see voltage swinging wildly all over the place, hopefully staying within a "safe" range of 95-130v. Worse, measure the output of your PC's power supply, and there WILL be fluctuation in all the outputs. Not much, if it's a quality unit, but those fluctuations combined with the noise that can't be filtered out 100% can and will cause occasional glitches and shorten component life.

Attach a variac to an online ups, and no-matter what you do, output voltage won't vary at all. Whether it's 10V or 200V coming in, you'll get perfectly regulated, noise free 110v out 100% of the time. It's not adjusting line power (which always involves a delay).

Since a quality UPS will last indefinitely simply by replacing the batteries I'd say it's a worthwhile investment.
 
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GlowingGhoul said:
Attach a variac to a line interactive UPS and run the AC voltage up and down. If you measure the output of the UPS, you'll see voltage swinging wildly all over the place, hopefully staying within a "safe" range of 95-130v. Worse, measure the output of your PC's power supply, and there WILL be fluctuation in all the outputs. Not much, if it's a quality unit, but those fluctuations combined with the noise that can't be filtered out 100% can and will cause occasional glitches and shorten component life
Click to expand...

Thanks much for clarification of difference there. Obviously worth the price premium for an Online UPS. But compared to the basic Walmart Surge Protector (an outlet splitter is all these are then?) connected directly to my wall, I'm getting actual benefit from the line interactive UPS right?
 
Correct. Furthermore, I've had an unrelated, yet similar experience with my audio/video equipment. When I bought my TV (Samsung DLP) years ago, the guy at the samsung store was an intern, and told me that he actually was an engineer that enjoyed working the floor. Anyway, he told me to invest in a setup such as this, and my equipment will last much longer.
Sure enough, it's been 9 years now, and I'm still rocking the original receiver, tv, etc than I've had since. It just makes sense that cleaner power provides a nice steady environment. No surges busting stuff, no bulb filaments blowing, slow and steady wins the race.. Maybe not slow, but steady... ;c)
 
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