UPS silliness

Discussion in 'Power Supplies' started by honegod, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Given that batteries are getting smaller and better,
    Has anyone yanked the circuit board from a UPS and installed it inside the computer case ?

    A fistful of electric bicycle battreries could be scattered around inside the case using unused space and wired together.

    Would the ups circuitry freak out at the different batteries, or what ?
     
  2. stormy1

    stormy1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Google does exactly that in their data centers. Builds the ups and battery right into the server.
    No you can not pull the guts out and hook it up to different batteries.
    The circuit has to be tuned to a specific class of batteries.
     
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  3. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Drat .

    Explains why replacement batteries are so lucrative

    I LIKED that idea.
     
  4. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Gawd

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    Umm, wow this is such a BAD idea...
     
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  5. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Excellent !!

    Why is it such a bad idea ?
     
  6. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    You could kill yourself if you don't know exactly what you're doing, and judging by all the questions you are asking about this, you don't.
     
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  7. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    How else shall i learn ?

    Battery charger > battery bank > thing that converts DC to AC > powersupply.

    It would be nice to have the auto shutdown capability.
     
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  8. THRESHIN

    THRESHIN 2[H]4U

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    just take your time and learn about electronics and batteries, google is your friend. different types of batteries have special considerations. for example, Li-Ion are very sensitive. can be dangerous if they get drained too much, can't be overcharged, can't draw too much current off them at once.

    its not necessarily high voltage that kills, it's current. high voltage allows the current to travel easier, say through your body. most would say that 120V AC that comes out of your wall socket to be relatively harmless. in reality it can be very deadly under the right conditions. it tends to disrupt your heartbeat easily.

    DC power can be very deadly under the right conditions as well. AC power constantly goes back and fourth between positive and negative with a zero power right in the middle of the cycle (this is the 60Hz cycle of most electrical grids). DC power is constant positive and negative and their respective poles. it just doesn't quit.

    playing and learning is great. in fact, i encourage it. just do so safely.
     
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  9. margrave

    margrave [H]Lite

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    I'm with Gasaraki on this.

    Just leave the UPS in its own enclosure. It was designed, built, and tested to operate properly that way.
    It was not designed to go inside a computer enclosure.

    As for your question "How will I learn?"
    Simple. Do so with low-voltage circuitry, not with 120 V mains power.
     
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  10. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thank you for your patient concern.

    I do completely understand that there are dangers working around electricity.

    I also understand that there are dangers, that I have no idea exist, that can jump out and kill me.

    Here, mostly, I am trying to get up to speed on the current state of the art of hand crafting computers .

    So I ask 'has anyone done - this ?' when I am inspired.

    Ideally, having a ups integrated into the PSU sounds to me to be an excellent idea .

    No lead\acid batteries, or nitroglycerin wanted.
     
  11. Spades45

    Spades45 Limp Gawd

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    Batteries are central to the entire concept of UPS. Without a battery, a UPS is just a surge protector.
     
  12. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes indeed, but lead\acid batteries, commonly used in UPSs, are big, heavy, explosive and toxic, none of which do I intend to put in my case.

    I am looking at something like cell phone batteries, NOT the kind that flames on, like the human torch.

    Although, a titanium enclosure with a blowoff cover to safely vent the raging inferno.
     
  13. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    I came to this thread for the sillyness. I was not disappointed. :p I'm glad you're being careful brother
     
  14. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Right now I have a couple pieces of .5mm copper on the electric (red hot coil type) stove all pasted with acid rosin and clamped together with vise grips.
    To see how well the solder will capillary.

    I am looking at RC aircraft batteries and the chargers that go with them.
     
  15. Spades45

    Spades45 Limp Gawd

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    LOL
     
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  16. MixManSC

    MixManSC [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just build a miniature nuclear reactor and be done with it. Self powered PC that goes for 20 years. Don't worry - hunting down the bits you will need will not raise any red flags with the government.
     
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  17. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Those little tritium vials, encased in calculator solar panels... Hmmmm.
     
  18. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    lol you watch that nerdrage vid didn't you. not gonna work, rewatch it.
     
  19. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    18650s in a 4s configuration would work
     
  20. MixManSC

    MixManSC [H]ardness Supreme

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    On a slightly more serious note than the nuclear reactor I'm thinking for the more of a deep cycle sort of use that LTO (lithium titanate) batteries would be the ideal solution but the cost is a bit higher and the lower voltage per cell (2.4) means more batteries needed in series. You would want 5 to get the 12V needed for the system. Then its a matter of packaging the cells, a charge controller which is pretty small, and a way to tie it into the system. The trickier bits in any solution is figuring a way to integrate some of the more complicated functions like a millisecond speed automatic transfer switch with a large enough capacitor to hold the load for those few milliseconds while the electrical load is transferred to the battery pack. Then you also need a way to convert the voltage to 5v and 3.3v that the system also needs in addition to the 12v it needs. Too much complications in trying to fit this into any reasonably small desktop chassis. Even if you hacked up a smaller off the shelf UPS and crammed the components into a desktop case you still will need to hack up the PC power supply so that the 120V input is connected to the UPS input and the UPS 120V output is connected to the power supply 120v input.
    That solution is really inefficient though as a standard UPS is also an inverter meaning it has to convert the DC battery pack voltage to 120V ac which has some significant losses. This is why many enterprise grade network equipment like servers, switches, routers, etc have an optional DC power supply which takes 12V dc. A UPS that only has to output DV voltage which is what the battery packs are producing can have a LOT longer runtime versus a UPS that has to run the DC voltage through an inverter to convert it to AC voltage. Lot more electronics needed, a lot more heat produced, etc.

    As stormy noted in the first reply. The tech you want is actually already there and being used. It just has not yet trickled down to the desktop/consumer space yet. Two things are needed for that to happen and it eventually will. Even more improved power efficiencies in system and further improvements in power storage (battery tech). Really most all technical advancements in just about all fields are very highly affected by energy storage technologies. Newer battery types have already revolutionized tech right in front of us. The biggest and most obvious recent advancement being Lithium Ion battery tech which realistically is quite old. But others are still coming but more widespread use takes time. Tech like LiFePO4, LTO, are already around but newer exotic tech like nanowire, graphene, liquid flow, etc are all being worked on furiously. I got to do some graphics work on a confidential prototype liquid flow setup (giant thing the size of a shipping container for massive solar energy storage) which was stunning in how it works with insane capacity. The stuff that it literally right around the corner in technology is truly mind boggling. Over the next 10 years things are really going to change faster and faster.
     
  21. MixManSC

    MixManSC [H]ardness Supreme

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    Seeing this bumped did make one other thing cross my mind. Flow batteries. You will have to search that to gain an understanding of the technology but it is very very rapidly advancing by companies like Redflow (also did graphics on some of their prototypes a few years ago). My company is under NDA's on some graphics work we have done on some massive prototypes (sized for solar farms) but those are comprised of many much smaller units . My thought was I wonder if it could somehow be worked that the liquid could also be used in a cooling loop? In other words your backup battery is also your liquid cooling system...
     
  22. honegod

    honegod [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wonder if it could somehow be worked that the liquid could also be used in a cooling loop? In other words your backup battery is also your liquid cooling system...


    Excellent !!

    That would go a LONG way toward making watercooling worthwhile.

    I have seen tiny PSUs, for the Hardcore smaller is better crowd, that use a wall wart to supply DC that this psu massages into proper computer power.
     
  23. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    Great now please provide examples of stables liquids which are as fluid as water, work like batteries, and can somehow be safely power a PC.

    I’ll keep waiting...
     
  24. cjcox

    cjcox Gawd

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    I use old iPhone batteries. But let me warn you, my system seems to be getting slower everyday.
     
  25. EVIL-SCOTSMAN

    EVIL-SCOTSMAN [H]ardness Supreme

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    When I was young and dumb, I took a full 240v and 13amp’s through my right hand up my arm and all over my body. Even thought it was maybe 1-2 seconds worth of juice, It is not just the fact that it can kill you, its an extremely fucking horrible feeling/experience. I just cannot describe in words just how horrible it felt.

    It made me learn one important thing, never will I stick my wet dick into an empty lightbulb socket ever again.

    Funning aside.


    O.P

    If you do not know what you are doing ( google is not your friend in this situation ) then do not attempt to do dumb shit, get a qualified electrician/electrical engineer to help you.

    Just think, doing so may save your life.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  26. margrave

    margrave [H]Lite

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    If you do build this silly contraption, please first contact the Darwin Society. We'll want to hear about your exploits. :)
     
  27. noxqzs

    noxqzs [H]Lite

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    A couple of points to consider. LiPo batteries will not work properly on a lead/acid charger and most likely will cause a serious failure. Secondly, scattering a bunch of batteries through the case introduces a lot of points of failure. Do yourself a favor and start small preferably on something you don't mind losing. Stay safe.

    Personally If your PC is used as primary and is fairly expensive, then don't bother.

    Save your time on projects like this. I upgraded my kids' electric cars with extra power. I wish I had the video, but with my son his car would pop a small wheelie off the line. I had to cut back on the motors considerably in case he gunned it going up a hill. I am still considering mounting a wheelie bar. They sure have fun though.

    0813081946a.jpg
     
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