UPS recommendations

[ashmedai]

IIRC you can get a voltage regulator for not much more than most consumer-grade surge supressors...a possible option when it's appropriate for the equipment you'll be plugging in to it. Obviously not a likely candidate for christmas lights.

 

[Karma]

Brickwall seems too expensive. Monster Cable has stuff in the $100 range, though.

 

[Karma]

IIRC you can get a voltage regulator for not much more than most consumer-grade surge supressors...a possible option when it's appropriate for the equipment you'll be plugging in to it. Obviously not a likely candidate for christmas lights.

I don't want to get too exotic. Remember that I would not only one for myself, but also others for people who I'm making computers for. I'm also thinking of getting something for my Home Theater setup.

 

[ashmedai]

My building wiring sucks and I get occasional brownouts, so a little voltage regulation makes my electronics not act like drunken schitzophrenic funny farm escapees. ^_^

On the UPS side of things I'm fairly happy with my APC Back-UPS RS 800. Belkin's sucked arse though.

 

[Ice Czar]

Brickwall seems too expensive. Monster Cable has stuff in the $100 range, though.

MOV stuff
might as well just go get a $20 one at Walmart

its
> http://www2.catalognavigator.com/brickwall/category/standard-surge-protectors?plpver=10
vs
> http://www.monstercable.com/power/SignaturePower.asp


and what the difference between those and an MOV is

http://brickwall.com/howwork.htm

External surges first encounter the Series Mode surge reactor L1, and must pass through this surge reactor to reach the protected equipment. L1 resists the surge frequencies and immediately (zero response time) provides current limiting. The Brick Wall surge protector reactor behaves like a relatively high value resistor at the surge frequencies and dissipates some of the surge as heat. Unlike MOV’s, TRANS-ZORBS and similar shunt based surge protectors that use elements weighing less than 1/4 ounce, Brick Wall surge protectors can easily absorb any surge repeatedly with absolutely no degradation.

Our surge protector reactor in conjunction with the capacitor C2, restricts the incoming voltage slew rate of up to 5,000 volts per microsecond to a maximum of 100 volts per microsecond (1 volt per 10ns). L1 and C2 operate continuously and react instantly for surges or noise lying within the normal dynamic range of the power wave. If the surge exceeds the normal ±180 volt peak dynamic range of the power wave, the dynamic clamp circuit (D1 C3) which tracks the peak of the power wave comes into play. With a diode clamp response time of 5ns, and maximum slew rate limited by L1 and C2 to 1 volt per 10ns, even a worst case surge will be clamped by the time the voltage exceeds the clamp voltage by 1 volt. The clamp circuit places a 180µf capacitor (C3) in parallel with C2, reducing the surge slew rate to about 8 volts per microsecond.

Two 'crowbar' circuits act on high energy surges. The series connected crowbar circuits consist of a SCR switch, inductor and a 180µf capacitor, chosen to minimize the disturbance on the power wave. The first crowbar circuit responds to the slew rate of the incoming surge. If a surge is large enough to generate more than 30 volts in less then 2µs across C3, then the slew rate crowbar neutralizes the surge. Should C4 become charged, and the voltage again begins to rise, a second crowbar will activate at 220 volts peak to provide a final measure of protection.

Since the surge reactor is a high impedance at the high frequencies of the surge, minimal high frequency current flows in the neutral wire and consequently the 'common mode' problem created by simple shunt surge protectors does not exist with Brick Wall Surge Protectors.

vs

Metal oxide varistor

The most common type of varistor is the Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV). This contains a mass of zinc oxide grains, in a matrix of other metal oxides, sandwiched between two metal plates (the electrodes). The boundary between each grain and its neighbour forms a diode junction, which allows current to flow in only one direction. The mass of randomly oriented grains is electrically equivalent to a network of back-to-back diode pairs, each pair in parallel with many other pairs. When a small or moderate voltage is applied across the electrodes, only a tiny current flows, causes by reverse leakage through the diode junctions. When a large voltage is applied, the diode junctions break down because of the avalanche effect, and a large current flows. The result of this behaviour is a highly nonlinear current-voltage characteristic, in which the MOV has a high resistance at low voltages and a low resistance at high voltages.

If the size of the transient pulse (often measured in joules) is too high, the device may melt, burn, vaporize, or otherwise be damaged or destroyed. For example, a nearby lightning strike may permanently damage a varistor.

Important parameters for varistors are response time (how long it takes the varistor to break down), maximum current and a well-defined breakdown voltage. When used in communications lines (such as phone lines used for modems), high capacitance is undesirable since it absorbs high frequency signals, thereby reducing the available bandwidth of the line being protected.

like comparing an F1 racecar to a gocart
MOV offer limited protection, when they do shunt a surge to ground can cause other issues and more importantly wear out, sometimes without any indication they arent functioning

your options are to buy them again and again with likely lapses in protection
or get a permenant solution

 

[Karma]

So are the Monster Cable Signature Series the only good surge protectors Monster Cable has?

 

[ashmedai]

IMO Monster's stuff is universally overpriced for the quality you're getting.

 

[Karma]

IMO Monster's stuff is universally overpriced for the quality you're getting.

Generally I would agree. But apparently they have some quality stuff, ignoring the MOV ones, anyway.........

 

[Ice Czar]

well the point is Id agree
the Monster Cable stuff is for rich audiophiles
while the Brickwall line started out with miserly but cautious SysAdmins

They arent cheap but your getting a far better bang for the buck

to actually do a comparaitive head to head with the various MonsterCables youd need one of the Electronics Wizards to compare the block diagrams.

A tell tale clue youll see though is they still have a Joule Rating regardless of the equipment coverage.

 

[gee]

Get one of those power bars which has a "protection active" LED on it - they use leakage current through the line-neutral MOV(s) to light that LED. When they wear out, the LED goes dim.

There's no need to spend $100 or even $20 on a power bar. The surge protection part is near identical regardless of what you buy, and the 'line filtering' you find in Monsters and other "high end" power bars is useless.

One of these days I'll make a thread explaining how to "supercharge" your power bar. Basically involves hiding a half dozen MOVs inside an AC plug or something

 

[ashmedai]

um...

 

[Ice Czar]

um...

he does have that title for a reason, he's an EE and has just burned me down to my socks
think this may go to tha level of paranoia required as opposed to the level you feel you want to adopt

MOV obviously do work, thats why you see them in everything including line interactive UPS
I think gee's point is that when properly employed you'll know when they have gone south, and that barring a lightning strike in close proximity will suffice, if you have better things to do with your money.

One of these days I'll make a thread explaining how to "supercharge" your power bar. Basically involves hiding a half dozen MOVs inside an AC plug or something

promises promises
Id just be happy if you hung out here more and kept me from being a fool a little more often

 

[ashmedai]

It's not whether or not it'll work I'm worried about so much as if I go telling people to do that how many will end up properly employing it. I suspect in the majority of cases that could lead to a lot of unprotected hardware.

Not that I wouldn't like to see that thread...I'm just not about to recommend people start buying power strips and trying to judge how bright the LED is, most of them will end up just getting a $10 piece of crap power bar and leaving it on until their rig fries.

 

[Ice Czar]

well here is what dansdata thinks about this.

http://www.dansdata.com/sbs9.htm
more or less a sliding scale from the cautions of powerbars up through line conditioning and into UPS

like any reliablity factor, probable is one thing but critical and worse case planning is another
what exactly is being protected

hell people are now replacing computers in whole simply because they have malware
as opposed to a critical system that must be protected inorder to meet your responsibilities or make your living

 

[gee]

promises promises
Id just be happy if you hung out here more and kept me from being a fool a little more often

I check in every once in a while. If there's an interesting thread, i'll post in it.

And having designed AC protection for very expensive equipment... you can't beat a circuit breaker upstream from a MOV. For spikes they act fast and absorb a huge amount of energy, and during big surges, they'll just pop the circuit breaker.

promises promises, eh? - http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T052/1135.pdf

For 120VAC operation, you want part # ROV20-201K-S... they offer 114J apiece. They're $4.70 for 10 at Digikey, and to meet the $25 minimum order you're basically buying 60 of them - enough to make a 6840 joule power bar. Put 1 from ground to neutral, 1 from ground to hot, and 58 between line and neutral. This will take up a *lot* of space.

Another way to protect your stuff is to use a PFC power supply - Most power supplies with a 120/240 volt switch can't handle any more than 140 volts on the input, before they pop their main input cap. But a PFC supply running at 120 volts can get a 230 volt surge (which will make a regular supply explode) and it'll just alter its duty cycle and carry on its merry way, powering your computer off the surge.

 

[ashmedai]

hell people are now replacing computers in whole simply because they have malware

Somehow I think most people who would do that are likely to be reinfected pretty damn fast.

I think that was more a shock article than indicitive of a new trend, although I've always seen people throwing out systems for really silly reasons. I think a lot of people got their first couple computers secondhand that way. ^_^