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Ups questions

D

Donar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
143
So i read through the UPS sticky at the top a bit, and i'm just looking for suggestions from people who currently run a UPS setup and could give some insight on what I should be looking at getting.

Currently we have two systems we want to put on a UPS

They are basically the exact same

E6600
2gigs of ram
1 drive
8800gtx

One will have a 37inch westy, the other a 20inch lcd. Other things on it will most likely be router/modem, and possibly my speaker setup. We are looking for a semi decent amount of uptime. 20+ minutes if possible. I've pretty much deciphered that APC is the company to go with, but what model should I be looking at?
 
Donar said:
So i read through the UPS sticky at the top a bit, and i'm just looking for suggestions from people who currently run a UPS setup and could give some insight on what I should be looking at getting.

Currently we have two systems we want to put on a UPS

They are basically the exact same

E6600
2gigs of ram
1 drive
8800gtx

One will have a 37inch westy, the other a 20inch lcd. Other things on it will most likely be router/modem, and possibly my speaker setup. We are looking for a semi decent amount of uptime. 20+ minutes if possible.
Click to expand...

20 minutes per system.....why?

How much do you want to spend because 20minutes on a decent UPS for two systems will be pricy.

I've pretty much deciphered that APC is the company to go with, but what model should I be looking at?
Click to expand...

Not completely there quite often are better deals than APC available.
 
One of the systems needs to have that amount of uptime simply because anytime it goes down, we lose money. It is a business critical box. The other one however can deal with a bit less, just simple save, shutdown. As far as how much we are looking to spend, we can work pretty much whatever.
 
If it really is going to be mission critical you are probably going to want something like a true online double conversion UPS. For 20 minutes load.....you are probably going to want something north of 1500 or 1500 VA depending on how many of those extraneous items are connected to the mission critical units UPS.

The none mission ciritcal one can use a line-interactive UPS of probably around 500+ VA.

As for particular models......pricewise Powercom and Tripplite are often much cheaper but just as good as APC.

If you go Tripp-Lite the online UPS are the SmartOnline series...and the good line interactives are SmartPRO.

On the APC side the onlines are the Smart UPS RT and the good line interactives are the Smart UPS (or Smart UPS XL).
 
Here you go :D 10kVA, 8KW. 5 minutes runtime at full load, and you'll only be using maybe a tenth of full load.

Only $5889 shipped to me.:eek:
 
Donar said:
One will have a 37inch westy, the other a 20inch lcd. Other things on it will most likely be router/modem, and possibly my speaker setup. We are looking for a semi decent amount of uptime. 20+ minutes if possible. I've pretty much deciphered that APC is the company to go with, but what model should I be looking at?
Click to expand...

Don't bother trying to run everything off the UPS. Your speakers, for example, are "expendable". Ditto any monitors not required - if the unit will simply shut down, you don't need a monitor. If possible, and if the monitor is a power hog, try to run a second, low power monitor in parallel and keep it in the UPS and turned off until needed. (I don't know the westy, but the LCD is likely as low a power consuming monitor as you're likely to bother about).

APC used to have a sizing web page - just plug in the configuration and uptime requirements and it will cough out the required UPS size.

Oh yes - you should consider running one machine per UPS if one is significantly more critical than the other. Otherwise, get one big one.
 
I am shopping, reading reviews, etc, with these same questions, certainly need some backup to be able to shut down, but really more focused on the conditioning of the power, as here in FL, the power doesn't go out often, it just burps for 5 secs..etc...and does it frequently.

I'm not sure the AVR is enough, as it tends to clamp, or abruptly change the output, and the BR etc models, have a square out put, as opposed to a nice sine wave. I want the constant online power to be as clean as possible, regardless of battery use or not, but really don't want to spend $500+ to get it.$200 -ish, sure..but $500 is a lot.... hmm..
 
My system in sig is quite a bit beefier than yours and I am running the APC BR1200. I get 23min of uptime with the system in use but not at 100% load at which it drops to around 15min of uptime.
 
good to know..

but once again, I'm more interested in the conditioning of the power that it outputs... AVR vs smart ups.. that the power to the pc is always conditioned, not just the battery power
 
sweet..thanks for link!


APC Smart-UPS 1000 (SU1000NET / SU1000) refurbed for $119..thats a great deal
 
spectre,

If you go Tripp-Lite the online UPS are the SmartOnline series...and the good line interactives are SmartPRO
Click to expand...

I'm looking to replace an old Sutton Designs UPS with a new UPS. Looking mainly for uptime in order to properly shutdown manually or automagically via software (which the old Sutton doesn't have).

I considered the TL Online series like the SU1000XLA but am concerned about possible UPS noise (and the cost - $400 with shipping) on my otherwise quiet PC I'm building.

Perhaps my modest needs would be better served by the SMART1500LCD (line-interactive) which can be had for $150+shipping.

Looking for clean power to the PC and uptime as described above.

Cost no object, I presume the SU1000XLa provides the cleanest power. But constant fan noise?

Does the SmartPro1500LCD offer acceptable power but quieter than the dual-conversion UPS?
 
speedlever said:
spectre,



I'm looking to replace an old Sutton Designs UPS with a new UPS. Looking mainly for uptime in order to properly shutdown manually or automagically via software (which the old Sutton doesn't have).

I considered the TL Online series like the SU1000XLA but am concerned about possible UPS noise (and the cost - $400 with shipping) on my otherwise quiet PC I'm building.

Perhaps my modest needs would be better served by the SMART1500LCD (line-interactive) which can be had for $150+shipping.

Looking for clean power to the PC and uptime as described above.

Cost no object, I presume the SU1000XLa provides the cleanest power. But constant fan noise?

Does the SmartPro1500LCD offer acceptable power but quieter than the dual-conversion UPS?
Click to expand...

For a typical user you aren't going to see a real world difference in the SmartPRO and the SmartONLINE. All of the online UPS's I use are racked and their noise is drowned out by the servers....but I do have a couple of the SMART1200LCD's out in offices and they really are pretty quiet (ie not noticeable in an office).
 
Thanks. I wouldn't expect the line-interactive to make any noise unless on battery power. But I've heard that the online (double conversion) units have a fan that runs all the time... which led to my question.

No doubt overkill for me anyway (the online UPS).
 
The SU750XL from tripplite (double conversion) has a fan but they claim it never exceeds 52dB. Whether that is loud are not is entirely dependant upon your environment though.
 
After living with a vacuum cleaner the last 5 years, anything will be an improvement. But 52dB sounds high to me.

The new build will have a Corsair HX520W PSU, a passive GPU and 4 quiet fans on the case and hsf. (Antec 120mm tri-cool, 2x 92mm Real Silent Nexus and a 120mm Noctua fan on the Noctua hsf).

I'm hoping this will be a quiet PC. I don't expect it to be silent... but hopefully it will be quiet. I think that 52 dB will be relatively loud.. and not what I'm looking for in a UPS (which helps justify NOT spending $400 for a UPS).
 
speedlever said:
After living with a vacuum cleaner the last 5 years, anything will be an improvement. But 52dB sounds high to me.

The new build will have a Corsair HX520W PSU, a passive GPU and 4 quiet fans on the case and hsf. (Antec 120mm tri-cool, 2x 92mm Real Silent Nexus and a 120mm Noctua fan on the Noctua hsf).

I'm hoping this will be a quiet PC. I don't expect it to be silent... but hopefully it will be quiet. I think that 52 dB will be relatively loud.. and not what I'm looking for in a UPS (which helps justify NOT spending $400 for a UPS).
Click to expand...

Yes 52 dba is loud. dba is a log scale.
 
Thanks for confirming that Spectre.

Is the Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD stepped squarewave or pure sinewave? Should I care one way or the other?
 
speedlever said:
Thanks for confirming that Spectre.

Is the Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD stepped squarewave or pure sinewave? Should I care one way or the other?
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head I believe it is a sine output on the 1500LCD. I will ahve to go find my documentation to be absolutely sure.
 
Thats a nice looking deal, Speed, although I think I need to bump the VA to 1k. But thats still cheaper than the APC
 
I'm under the impression that the 52dB is at max fan speed so I'm not entirely sure how it would be at say, half load.
 
speedlever said:
Ahh... methinks it's stepped squarewave, if I interpret the following correctly.
Waveform Type: Pulse-width Modulated Sine Wave

http://tinyurl.com/yprky6

Hmmm.

Edit: this one may be a better unit. Opinion?
Click to expand...

I probably should add these to the sticky:


http://www.ab.com/drives/techpapers/PWMDrives01.pdf

http://power.elecdesign.com/tutorial/index.cfm?action=Tutorial&tutorialID=62

http://www.kerchner.com/electrical/sinewave.htm

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_understanding_ups_technobabble/
 
if want clean power signal get true on line type no just battery back up ups

liebert is great choice
 
Spectre,

The last 3 links were very informative on a layman's level. After reading those articles, I will not worry about waveform type.

XBarbarian,

The drawback to me about the 1500LCD is that all 8 outlets are battery protected. I prefer to have some that are surge protected but not on the battery too... such as my powered speakers and printers. The 2nd link I provided is closer to what I want albeit somewhat more expensive.
 
The second one you linked above will work....I have a number of that line around.....they are a bit louder than the LCD's though.

You could also get a stand alone AVR though to complement the 1500LCD. Tripp-Lite makes line conditioners/AVR's that run about 60 or you can snag a APC Line-R 600va AVR for around 30-40 (buy.com has it for 33).
 
Spectre,

they are a bit louder than the LCD's though
Click to expand...

When you say louder... do you mean in normal operation where the UPS is passive? Or do you mean when it's supplying power?

I don't expect to hear anything unless the UPS is active. Am I wrong? (unless it's an online unit)

Hadn't thought about a stand-alone AVR for the non-essential stuff. What's the general guideline on what can be connected?
1) in front of the UPS (ie, outlet-> AVR/surge protector -> UPS -> gear)
2) behind the UPS (ie, outlet -> UPS -> AVR/surge protector -> gear)
3) same outlet the UPS is on.
 
speedlever said:
Spectre,



When you say louder... do you mean in normal operation where the UPS is passive? Or do you mean when it's supplying power?
Click to expand...

Both. Not much louder on stand by but I can hear them more than the LCD's....but that is a purely subjective assesment. Most of my users can't really hear either when they aren't supplying battery power in their lab/office.



Hadn't thought about a stand-alone AVR for the non-essential stuff. What's the general guideline on what can be connected?
1) in front of the UPS (ie, outlet-> AVR/surge protector -> UPS -> gear)
2) behind the UPS (ie, outlet -> UPS -> AVR/surge protector -> gear)
3) same outlet the UPS is on.
Click to expand...

Most of the time you want to hook the AVR and UPS up to different outlets and not in series (especially not into the UPS because then you are still going to be pulling battery power from the UPS).
 
Let me ask you about unattended shutdown via the software (Poweralert). I need 12-ish outlets. So a UPS with 4 battery protected and 4 surge protected plus a line conditioner with 4 outlets would work for me.

The LCD1500 comes with 8 battery protected outlets. Does the software let me shut power off to selected outlets and leave others powered (ie, computer while it shuts down) for a defined time? If so, I could use the LCD1500 and just have the software cut power to the outlets with powered speakers and printers attached (no Laser printer).

I note the 1000LCD comes with 4 battery and 4 surge protected outlets. Is it otherwise the same as the 1500LCD?

Otherwise, the 750SLT sure looks more promising for my perceived needs.

I d/l the Poweralert manual but some features are apparently UPS specific. Hard to tell what applies and what doesn't to certain UPS's without having them in hand.

Also, I have a single wall outlet with two receptacles in my home office. Any problems connecting the UPS to one receptacle and the AVR to the other?

BTW, Provantage has the APC Line-R 600 for $28 and some change. I have a Samsung ML-2010 laser printer to power. Can the 600 handle that?

I presently have my UPS and a separate power strip connected to the outlet as described above and never see any problems (lights dimming, etc.) when I run my laser printer.

Thoughts?
 
speedlever said:
Let me ask you about unattended shutdown via the software (Poweralert). I need 12-ish outlets. So a UPS with 4 battery protected and 4 surge protected plus a line conditioner with 4 outlets would work for me.

The LCD1500 comes with 8 battery protected outlets. Does the software let me shut power off to selected outlets and leave others powered (ie, computer while it shuts down) for a defined time? If so, I could use the LCD1500 and just have the software cut power to the outlets with powered speakers and printers attached (no Laser printer).
Click to expand...

Unless Tripp-lite has really upgraded the software since version 11 it cannot shutdown indivual outlets.

I note the 1000LCD comes with 4 battery and 4 surge protected outlets. Is it otherwise the same as the 1500LCD?
Click to expand...

Other than the lower VA rating and the rackmount tabs they are built on the same platform.



Also, I have a single wall outlet with two receptacles in my home office. Any problems connecting the UPS to one receptacle and the AVR to the other?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be ...that is what I was trying to say up above.

BTW, Provantage has the APC Line-R 600 for $28 and some change. I have a Samsung ML-2010 laser printer to power. Can the 600 handle that?
Click to expand...

Laser printers are funny things in that they have such huge startup draws. You can give it a whirl...and I would guess it can..but honestly there really is a lot of variation in between models.

I presently have my UPS and a separate power strip connected to the outlet as described above and never see any problems (lights dimming, etc.) when I run my laser printer.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Thoughts.....your electrical wiring is better than a lot of peoples :D
 
Very helpful info, Spectre.

Sounds like the software may not be able to do what I want on the 1500LCD. So I need to decide between the 750SLT or the 1000LCD plus the APC Line-R.

I see replacement batteries for the 750SLT (RBC51) are available (~$20/ea) but don't see any mentioned for the LCD series. Aren't they replaceable too?

I'll look over the APC units and compare them. Probably be back with more questions!
 
To answer my question about the LCD series batteries - there are NO batteries listed on the TL site for the LCD series. Looks like the batteries are NOT replaceable. The LCD series must be throw away devices.

There are no noise levels listed for the 750SLT. I emailed TL requesting that info. The fan runs when: the unit is charging, on battery power or under heavy load.

There does NOT appear to be RJ11/tel connections on the 750SLT. There are RJ45 (ethernet) connections. Does the RJ45 connection on the 750SLT do double duty as an RJ11 connection too?

I have a separate coax surge suppression device. I need tel/RJ11 protection.

Edit to add: replacement RBC51 batteries for the 750SLT are available from Ebay for $9.70/ea plus shipping. Two batteries and shipping to me is about $31.
 
Happened to run by Costco today and noticed they offer a Tripp-Lite Omni1000LCD for $100. Sure looks like a SmartPro1000LCD to me.

Is there any difference? I couldn't find an Omni1000LCD on TL's website in their Omni line. But that was clearly marked on the box.
 
speedlever said:
Happened to run by Costco today and noticed they offer a Tripp-Lite Omni1000LCD for $100. Sure looks like a SmartPro1000LCD to me.

Is there any difference? I couldn't find an Omni1000LCD on TL's website in their Omni line. But that was clearly marked on the box.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'll have to make a call to find out for sure...but it could be a special run item based on the Omni line like the 900 model. Costco/Sam's etc have been getting their own run of certain electronics these days.
 
I'm curious what the diff is between the Omni line and the SmartPro line.

Spectre, do you know if the RJ45 connector on the 750SLT does RJ11 jacks too? The spec sheet only lists the RJ45 connection.
 
speedlever said:
I'm curious what the diff is between the Omni line and the SmartPro line.
Click to expand...

IIRC it is the AVR and output filtering is better on the SmartPro's.

Spectre, do you know if the RJ45 connector on the 750SLT does RJ11 jacks too? The spec sheet only lists the RJ45 connection.
Click to expand...
No.....but again I can check and find out for you.
 
Well, considering I had pretty much shot my wad cash wise on my entire new personal entertainment system - Maingear F131, Westy 37", hard to Get Ikea Jerker desk, including having to pay a Concierge out of town to be able to get this desk as they are discontinued, Klipsch Pro Media 2.1's, I ended up with a little less UPS than I would like. I used my BB CC to pick up a APC Back UPS -XS1500LCD. So, it's just AVR, for now.

Down the road a bit, I would like to upgrade to a dbl-conversion type, as once again, here in Tampa area FL, our power is rather dirty, and I want to give my new Maingear pc the good stuff. But at least for now, it will have 1500VA AVR , which is alot better than nothing. :D
 
Tripp-Lite responded to my inquiry as follows:

"The only audible noise spec for any Tripplite UPS is that none will be louder than 52 dbA. The battery in the Smart1000LCD is not user replaceable."

The noise spec is not particularly comforting in my quest to build a quiet PC environment.

I also requested TL to clarify the difference between the Omni and the SmartPro line.

Regarding phone line protection, I've noticed some UPSs say the RJ45 connection does double duty for an RJ11 jack too. I don't recall having seen this... is it pretty standard nowadays?
 
RJ11 should fit in RJ45 ports, generally speaking. I *think* it should latch properly, as well.
 
Spectre, do you know if the RJ45 connector on the 750SLT does RJ11 jacks too? The spec sheet only lists the RJ45 connection.
Click to expand...

Yeah they should fit but I haven't been able to find 750SLT units left here or documentation for them to check :confused:

Happened to run by Costco today and noticed they offer a Tripp-Lite Omni1000LCD for $100. Sure looks like a SmartPro1000LCD to me.

Is there any difference? I couldn't find an Omni1000LCD on TL's website in their Omni line. But that was clearly marked on the box.
Click to expand...

Still haven't heard back on this.....but I'll try again this afternoon.
 
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