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UPS or Power Conditioner?

U

unimatrixzer0

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
322
Which would you suggest getting for a computer system, a power conditioner or a UPS? I really want clean power running to my PC all the time. I noticed my lights flicker/dim when the a/c or my laser printer turn on.

Would a power conditioner be what I want? It releases that extra charge when the power fluctuates correct? A UPS does the same thing does it not except for a longer duration since it has a battery.

A while back I use to have a UPS hooked up to my DVR. I didn't like how you couldn't turn off the alarm when there was no power without having it hooked up to a PC to configure. And then once you unplugged it from the PC, it would forget I turned off the alarm and turn back on.
 
you want the UPS to protect your OS and drives (etc). If the alarm bothers you, (here at least) you can leave the UPS off (by front switch) and power it up when the computer is on; off at night. (if I understand your post adequately)
 
ups with avr would be best, and about the alarm thing a lot of new units have an override switch on the back.
 
So for a PC a UPS would be better than a Power Conditioner because of the added benefit that you have time to save your work and shut down.

What models have an override switch for the alarm? I was looking at some Belkin and APC. Didn't notice any with an override for the alarm.
 
unimatrixzer0 said:
So for a PC a UPS would be better than a Power Conditioner because of the added benefit that you have time to save your work and shut down.

What models have an override switch for the alarm? I was looking at some Belkin and APC. Didn't notice any with an override for the alarm.
Click to expand...

Check the software on both as some alarms are maanged from the software not a switch.
 
Thats true, I had that feature on a Belkin I use to own. I guess its not an issue this time since I'll have it hooked to a PC. Before however I had a UPS hooked up to a cable modem and router. Since it wasn't connected to a PC the alarm would go off and had to be manually turned off. If I connected it to a computer and turned off the alarm, that would work. However once I unplugged it from the PC the settings I guess who be lost and the alarm would go off. Unless newer UPS's don't lose their settings now.
 
unimatrixzer0 said:
Would a power conditioner be what I want? It releases that extra charge when the power fluctuates correct? A UPS does the same thing does it not except for a longer duration since it has a battery.
Click to expand...

A power conditioner and a UPS are totally different with different functions. Some, but not all UPS units also do power conditioning.

Power conditioning maintains the level and quality of the AC line voltage. It filters out noise, voltage spikes, etc. and also maintains a steady 120VAC (or whatever it's rating is) even when the actual line voltage runs high or low (within limits). If the line goes dead though, a power conditioner also goes dead. No batteries or any kind of voltage generation in a power conditioner.

A UPS uses a battery that powers an AC waveform generator when the AC line voltage goes dead. The UPS allows systems to run during short power failures and enables graceful automatic shutdowns when the battery gets low.
 
Well, that I already knew. A Power Conditioner is not a UPS. My original question was, if I don't really have to worry about power outages and just clean constant power would I be fine getting a power conditioner to replace the surge protector I'm using now. My concern was maybe a Power Conditioner wouldn't have enough stored power for that second or half a second the power might dip to low when the a/c or other power hog appliance cut on for a PC system.

The difference in spending is $134 for this Belkin UPS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101218

or

This Belkin Power Conditioner for $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120242
 
unimatrixzer0 said:
Well, that I already knew. A Power Conditioner is not a UPS. My original question was, if I don't really have to worry about power outages and just clean constant power would I be fine getting a power conditioner to replace the surge protector I'm using now. My concern was maybe a Power Conditioner wouldn't have enough stored power for that second or half a second the power might dip to low when the a/c or other power hog appliance cut on for a PC system.

The difference in spending is $134 for this Belkin UPS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101218

or

This Belkin Power Conditioner for $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120242
Click to expand...


Well, no..... you didn't know that. :)

One of your original questions was, "A UPS does the same thing does it not....?".

Neither of the devices you listed will help you if you are looking to smooth out line spikes and dips caused by large appliances kicking on.

The first choice is a UPS, and you said you don't need a UPS.

The second choice is not a true power conditioner, it's still more of a glorified surge strip. The surge protectors are meant to help protect against very high voltage spikes as are caused by lightning. It actually shorts them out. It has zero ability to prop up a low line voltage. If the AC line is at 85VAC, you get 85VAC from the surge protector. If the air conditioner kicks on and causes a low voltage interruption, the surge strip will do nothing to fix that.

>>My concern was maybe a Power Conditioner wouldn't have enough stored power for that second or half a second the power might dip to low when the a/c or other power hog appliance cut on for a PC system.

Power conditioners do NOT store power in that sense, that's not how they work.

A true power conditioner is much more complex and expensive. The power conditioner actually WILL bring an 85VAC line voltage back up (closer) to 120VAC. It can even do that for an extended time period. Not because it's storing power though. It does that because it has active circuitry that monitors the line voltage and will select different transformer windings to generate the required voltage. It then further adjusts and filters the voltage to give you clean 120VAC even when that AC compressor kicks on.

I have a "Perma Power" brand "Automatic Voltage Regulator" sitting next to me that does just that. When a big drop hits my AC line, I can hear a relay selecting different transformer windings and the front panel indicates "Voltage Low" on the AC line. Sometimes just for a split second, other times 10-15 seconds or more. It may run most of the day indicating low line voltage on heavy demand summer days.

A UPS, a surge suppressor, and a power conditioner are all different devices. Some units have any or all of those functions combined in one box though.

The link that ATHLONHEAD gave you is a true power conditioner.
 
Right my first choice was a UPS, but it has AVR that someone was mentioning in an earlier post.

My mistake on the Belkin Surge Suppressor though, Newegg has in the specifications Power Conditioner, but on the Belkin website it doesn't list that feature.

Ok, so now I understand how a power conditioner works. I always thought it just stored some extra charge in some capacitors or something. I got that idea from people always saying never take a part a PSU and touch anything inside since some components keep enough charge to kill you.

I'm using one of these for my TV. This is a power conditioner right? Just a little worried I may have picked out the wrong thing since I've had the wrong idea all along.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120248

A true power conditioner seems to basically cost as much as a UPS so I'm thinking I might as well get one of those. That Belkin I was looking at says it has AVR. When I googled AVR it says it conditions the line and protects from highs and low line voltage. I want to make sure thats correct since that Tripp Lite LC1800 costs as much as the UPS online.

Is that Tripp Lite LC1800 loud? I noticed it had a fan. And then you also said something about a clicking noise on your unit.
 
Is that Tripp Lite LC1800 loud? I noticed it had a fan. And then you also said something about a clicking noise on your unit.
Reply With Quote
Click to expand...

It dosent have a fan.It is totally quiet except when it is correcting voltage you can hear a couple of clicks.
 
unimatrixzer0 said:
Ok, so now I understand how a power conditioner works. I always thought it just stored some extra charge in some capacitors or something. I got that idea from people always saying never take a part a PSU and touch anything inside since some components keep enough charge to kill you.

I'm using one of these for my TV. This is a power conditioner right? Just a little worried I may have picked out the wrong thing since I've had the wrong idea all along.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120248
Click to expand...

Very true about the large capacitors storing a charge and being potentially dangerous to touch even when powered off. The caps are not batteries though, they can't be used to generate AC line voltage when the power is removed (or low). It's not the caps that give the power conditioner the ability to pull up the AC voltage, it's the special transformer.

That's the key component in the AVR function of the power conditioners, the large and heavy transformer. The unit you have for the TV is not tall enough to contain one of these large transformers. It may provide clean AC power, but it can't correct low line voltage. Therefore it will not solve the problem of pulling up the line voltage during sags from a large appliance kicking on. The unit you have will filter the noise out of that event, but it can't correct the line voltage.
 
Hmm, so basically I bought a glorified surge protector. Reading the specs I guess it is power conditioning but just not from dips.

Ok, so if I want a true power conditioner I'll have to get one of those Tripp Lite's. However if I want a UPS with AVR will that accomplish the same thing or do I have it wrong again?
 
Yes, if you buy a UPS with AVR, then it will do the voltage correction for the heavy appliance sags. You want to also make sure that the unit has good surge protection. I'm guessing most power conditioning UPS'es will have full surge protection too. Always a good idea to read through the specs on whatever unit you are considering.
 
Is the LCD screen bright? My only concern is how bright the blue LEDs would be at night. I've never head of cyberpower. I'm only familiar with APC and Belkin.
 
the lcd turns off after like 1 minute of idle but the power button is lit with blue led and it's fairly bright.
 
APC BR1500LCD 1500VA 900 Watts 8 Outlets BACK-UPS - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101067

That is the UPS I am currently looking at.

Cons: Beware the tech specs listed: (1)the surge suppression energy rating is only 340 joules! This is almost 1/3rd less than other brands at this VA rating. Second, and the biggest con, is that this unit only provides AVR boost and not trim/buck. Which means that during overvoltages, this unit will go to battery mode to provide safe output. If you live in an area with frequent overvoltages, go with a different unit that has true AVR in both directions, so that the battery isn't depleted during Trim/Buck modes. While other non-LCD RS series units from APC have true Trim, the LCD units do not. I confirmed this with an APC tech.
Click to expand...

Can anyone recommend me a unit that does both AVR boost, trim/buck and with a higher surge suppression like this reviewer mentioned? Or is this APC unit I picked out fine? Just not sure if the trim/buck and surge suppression are a deal breaker yet because of the way it handles over voltage by just switching to battery back up.
 
unimatrixzer0 said:
APC BR1500LCD 1500VA 900 Watts 8 Outlets BACK-UPS - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101067

That is the UPS I am currently looking at.



Can anyone recommend me a unit that does both AVR boost, trim/buck and with a higher surge suppression like this reviewer mentioned? Or is this APC unit I picked out fine? Just not sure if the trim/buck and surge suppression are a deal breaker yet because of the way it handles over voltage by just switching to battery back up.
Click to expand...

Most consumer UPSs are like that. AVR extends the range of input voltage before UPS would switch over to battery. APC UPSs are surge protector --> straight thru, +12% or -12% --> computer. If + or - 12% can't keep the output voltage within a specified range, then it transfers to battery. Many UPSs are very sensitive to sudden voltage change caused by the AC kicking in or the normal heater cycling of the laser printer and cause it to hunt back and forth between battery <--> AC power. Even if it's within the range of AVR, if the voltage change is particularly abrupt, such as the AC compressor kicking in, many UPS would still transfer to battery for "unacceptable rate of voltage change".

This will constantly put a wear on the UPS battery and cause it to fail prematurely.

If you want constant 120V +/- 3% or so regardless of input, the only option is a double conversion UPS, which is very expensive. Your best bet is to not put air conditioners and laser printers on the same circuit as the computer.
 
So basically this APC UPS does voltage correction by switching to the battery in most cases. I'm still a little confused. So since I know it protects against over voltage, it will try to do that first and if it can't it'll switch to the battery? In case of a voltage drop it'll automatically switch to the battery right?

The most important thing for me to understand is if a UPS with AVR is as effective as a power conditioner like the Tripp Lite mentioned before. The Tripp Lite uses special transformers as someone told me before to regulate the power, while this APC will just switch to battery backup. As long as the same thing is being accomplished effectively I'm ok with that APC UPS.

I was just going to get the Tripp Lite power conditioner at first, but then I thought I might be better off with a UPS to power off my PC properly since I read that some have this AVR feature.

Boost and Trim Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) Automatically corrects low and high voltage conditions, allowing you to work through brownouts and overvoltages without discharging the battery. This saves battery life, increases uptime, and improves your productivity.
Click to expand...

Thats what is says for the Back-Up RS line of UPS. lol, now I'm lost again. Since your post and some comments on amazon for this protect made it sound like this isn't really true AVR since it'll switch to the battery. But this quote from the APC website says it won't even discharge the battery which I assume means it won't use it.
 
Question, so if I attach a UPS w/ AVR or a true Power Conditioner to an outlet that isn't grounded what happens? Do I just end up with an overly expensive power strip?

The outlet my computer is on is grounded so not worried about that when I buy my APC UPS w/ AVR, but the outlet my expensive TV is on isn't. Right now its hooked up to a glorified surge protector from Belkin, which I thought at first was a power conditioner but isn't. If I bought a true power conditioner for that TV would it be wasted? Since its not grounded would it just turn into a power strip with no real protection against surges?

I've tried grounding the outlet, but no success.
 
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