Uprgade from a P4 3.6! She needs to RIP...

B

Buztafen

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
238
Morning all,

Not been on for a while. Hope all the regulars are doing well.

Well its budget upgrade time. Ive had my current setup (see sig) for around 2 years looking at my last few post, and the P4 is even older at almost 4 years. Its been a solid PC and has handled everything ive thrown at it but its time for a little upgrade and to give the old girl a rest...she deserves it!

Im thinking new mobo, cpu and ram but have been out of the loop for a while.

First and foremost the CPU, something along the lines of a lower end Core2Duo or maybe a budget Quad core? Something to give it some processing umph as the X1900 ive got has never realised its full potential. Im not adverse to AMD either as im thinking a dual core cpu would be cheaper than a Core2Duo....i think??

Just looking for suggestions really. Im wanting to play games but the only ones that are causing problems are Crysis (GPU and CPU need upgrading) and Supreme Commander (mainly CPU from what ive heard) Both these run ok'ish at the mo but i wanting steady 1280x720 or 1366x768 performance to go with my Panny Plasma.

Then once a CPU's been nailed, help with marrying up some ram and a mobo with it.

Budget is around £200ish ($350ish)

Thanks all for looking and cheers for any help.

Buz.
 
I just upgraded my P4 3.4Ghz, Asus P4P800SE, 2GB, X1950Pro to a C2D E8400 3.0Ghz, Asus P5Q Pro, 4GB, 9800GT and it was $480. I had to do a full upgrade since my old system was AGP.
AGP was the main reason for the upgrade since I was tired of spending obscene amounts of money on AGP cards when faster PCI-e cards were cheaper.

If your X1900 is PCI-e, then you should have no trouble upgrading for $350, if you are in the USA.
 
The X1900 is on PCI-E yeah, im in the uk but ive no problems with shipping stuff over from the US if its possible.

So are we talking a difference of night and day with your upgrade then? :)

Also are Intel 'recommended' over AMD at the moment?
 
Ya, the machine feels about 4 times faster (if not more).
I am still running XP Pro SP3.

I haven't really put it through it's paces yet, just upgraded about 1.5 weeks ago.
I did get a free copy of Crysis with my video card and installed that, but I haven't had a chance to play it.
I also bought Crysis:Warhead to play when I finish Crysis.

I have no opinion on which chip is better, AMD or Intel. I just use Intel.
Way way back in the day (95 or so) I had a Cyrix 166+ processor. It was supposed to be equivalent to an Intel Pentium 166mhz. I ran Lightwave 4.0 on the Cyrix and then installed my brothers Pentium 100 chip in my machine, ran Lightwave again, and the same frame rendered about 50% faster on the Pentium 100mhz. The next day I sold the board and proc, and bought an Intel proc and mobo, and have bought Intel Chips since.
 
Sounds about what im wanting really, obviously my upgrades performance wont be as impressive due to the older GPU. Im just looking for a quick and cheap power boost. I would of just changed the CPU if i could but my mobo only takes P4's at least i think it does as theres no mention of it supporting C2Duo's or quads....even though its the same socket and has slots for both DDR and DDR2.

Believe it or not ive done pretty much the same even down to the Cyrix processor :). I did have a quick and dirty year with a 2ghz AMD a few years back but its mostly been Intel all the way.

Anyone any opinions on the Athlon Dual-cores? like the 5000+?
 
Do you plan to overclock your system or run it at stock speeds??

I had that same Cyrix CPU as well, it sucked.
 
Hehe looks like the whole Cyrix is equivalent to intel marketing was fair successful if it suckered in 3 random people who have never met on a forum! :rolleyes:

Mostly stock but i'd be up for a little OC'ing as ive never tried it with a CPU before (i'll say n00b to myself before anyone can get in there! :()

Just thinking are there any 'really' cheap single core processor (AMD or intel) that would be a worthwhile upgrade?
 
Unfortunately my Dad did not know a lot about computers (and still doesn't, lol) back then and bought the cheapest thing he could find. I still have an MII 300 hanging around somewhere, lol.

I'd go with the Asus or maybe a Gigabyte board. They make some really nice boards for overclocking. If not, Intel has some really nice Media Series boards that really do not overclock well, but are really stable. The only thing with those is that they are picky about RAM. An E8400 would be a nice upgrade and the price seems to be dropping as of recently.
 
Sounds like my Dad, i 'upgrade' his comp to a Barton core a few years back and he thought it was the fast thing hes ever used.....easily pleased means less hassle for me! :)

The E8400 seem to be just shy of £100 here in the UK. Not bad. Are there any Asus or Gigabyte boards you can suggest? Also the DFI mobo ive currently got has been great and i wouldnt turn down another...
 
A couple of cheap yet effective options would be the Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L and the MSI P43 Neo3-F. They give you the ability to overclock your processor (should you decide to do so later on).

To save some money, you could also get the E7200 instead of the E8400. With DDR2 800 RAM, it can easily be overclocked to speeds around 3GHz (its stock speed is 2.53GHz).
 
tiraides said:
A couple of cheap yet effective options would be the Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L and the MSI P43 Neo3-F. They give you the ability to overclock your processor (should you decide to do so later on).

To save some money, you could also get the E7200 instead of the E8400. With DDR2 800 RAM, it can easily be overclocked to speeds around 3GHz (its stock speed is 2.53GHz).
Click to expand...

Why not spend $10 more and get the E7300, lol. I've got an E7200 and really like it. The only thing about it is that it has half the cach of the E8400. :(
 
Cheers guys.

What are the equivalent AMD processors like? are they cheaper? not as good? If i can save some £ and go AMD i wont mind even if the performance up isnt as big?:confused:

Something like a Athlon X2 Dual Core Black edition???

Cheers
 
Atl530i said:
Why not spend $10 more and get the E7300, lol. I've got an E7200 and really like it. The only thing about it is that it has half the cach of the E8400. :(
Click to expand...

1) The OP lives in the UK, so I doubt it will be $10 more...
2) There is little difference performance-wise between the stock speeds of the E7300 and the E7200, and they both have the same overclocking threshold/limit, so it's not really worth the extra money... especially when you have to factor in the rest of the build.

Buztafen said:
Cheers guys.

What are the equivalent AMD processors like? are they cheaper? not as good? If i can save some £ and go AMD i wont mind even if the performance up isnt as big?:confused:

Something like a Athlon X2 Dual Core Black edition???

Cheers
Click to expand...

The E7200/E7300 would beat out its AMD equivalent (which, I believe, is the X2 6000+) at both stock speeds and overclocked. The appeal of the Black Edition AMD processors is that they come with unlocked multipliers, which makes overclocking them (theoretically) much easier. Long story short is that Intel is the better choice unless you're working with an extremely low (<£150 for everything) budget.
 
Nehalem comes out soon, so if you can, you might want to wait for that.
 
Ive heard the Nehalem's coming soon but i dont think i'd want to upgrade to the first release of a new cpu, rather wait so they can iron out any faults.

So its just a cpu, mobo and ram that im after.

The E7200 seems fine for my needs. So onto a mobo and ram. I'd like to give overlocking a go not really tried much except gpu OC'ing.

The parts that im keeping in the upgraded build are as follows:-

Coolmaster Praetorian 730 Case (http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?act=detail&id=48)
1 x X1900XTX GPU
2 x 160gb SATA HD's
2 x Optical drives (1 dual layer DVD-RW and soon to be purchased HD/Bluray drive)
1 x 9 in 1 card reader
1 x BT Wireless PCI Card
600w Tagan dual 12v PSU
I have a Zalman CNPS9700LED cpu fan which will apparently fit all current Intel cpus using Socket 775. (http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=164)

So im looking for a mobo with a single PCI-Express x16 slot (not going crossfire or SLi).

Also if possible im wanting the mobo to be able to output HD Audio (7.1 channels or more) with optical or HDMI out onboard. The X1900 should output 1080p fine with the extra umph from the E7200....if not i'll have to save and go for a HD4850 or 70

Anyone any mobo suggestions?

So far had these suggested:-

- Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
(http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...board&ProductID=2847&ProductName=GA-EP43-DS3L)

-MSI P43 Neo3-F
(http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P43_Neo3-F&class=mb)

Are there any others that can be recommended?

Cheers for any help...
 
Im getting a simmiliar upgrade, over at extremeoverclocking they suggested an Asus P5Q Pro motherboard, it seems like a solid motherboard with Good over clocking features, its got alot of good reviews aswell.
 
enginurd said:
Nehalem comes out soon, so if you can, you might want to wait for that.
Click to expand...
....it'll be faster than anything, with a price to match....:p I'm going to wait and see how bad the premium for Nehalem is but if it's huge, I may put a quad core machine together and finally retire my old workhorse.

Ahh yes, the curse of the Cyrix. I had one, and I had two buddies that had 'em. The cache on them all eventually died, corrupting the hard drive data and causing a bad system crash. Weird. Pentiums replaced them all and at least one of those systems is still running.
 
Since you like to hold onto your board and cpu for a while - why not consider buying a quad core q6600 or something in that family for ~$180? They o/c to 3.0 Ghz prolly 99.9% of the time, and some folk get anywhere up to 3.6Ghz past the 3.0 mark. Mine O/Cs to 3.15 Ghz on stock voltage with my Abit IP35-e.
 
Adakos said:
for budget c2d upgrade try this:
GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L for $USD 60
Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 for $USD 120
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 for $USD 66

talking budget that is $USD 246 before shipping. It's a little system (micro atx) but it appears pretty solid.
Click to expand...

Cheers for the replies.

Adakos, just thinking seen as i wont be needing onboard graphics would something like this be better do you think?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...board&ProductID=2893&ProductName=GA-EP31-DS3L

Its also got better onboard audio which i'd like to have with Optical SPDIF on the back panel?

Also is there a big performance difference between P31, P35, P43, P45 etc?
Should i be going P45 all the way???

Cheers.
 
P31 uses ICH7, an older south bridge, but it doesn't affect performance much. Its the value solution of the Bearlake chipset series. P35 is the mainstream Bearlake, and it offers slightly more OC ability than the P31, supposedly. Bearlake's replacement is Eaglelake (P4X).

Eaglelake improves on Bearlake with more PCI-E bandwidth with PCI-E 2.0 support (vs PCI-E 1.1) as well as better Crossfire support (8x + 8x (P45) vs. 16x + 4x (P35)). This doesnt matter for today's hardware, since there currently isn't a single GPU vidcard that can saturate the bandwidth of PCI-E 1.1, but it may affect future hardware upgrades. Then again, by the time vidcards are severely limited by the lower bandwidth of the PCI-E1.1 slots, it will be time for a new motherboard anyhow (by which time PCI-E3.0 will be out; which would put you back into the same predicament).

The only thing that differs from P45 and P43 is Crossfire support. However, some P45 boards don't have a 2nd PCI-E 16x, so there are some P45 boards without Crossfire. P45 also supposedly OC's better, too, but if its true, its probably not enough to warrant any price premium if you're actually looking into a low budget P43 or Bearlake board. :p

The GA-EP43-DS3L would be a much better choice than the P5Q SE, IMO, since the asus has a horrible location for the 24-pin connector. Such a location could affect temperatures, but not to the point where the system would overheat... still, there are better choices, such as the DS3L. You don't need P45, since you won't be going Crossfire.

Though, again, if you can wait a couple months (for Nehalem), I'd suggest doing so.
 
Cheers for the comprehensive but n00b friendly explanation of the differences between the chipsets enginurd!

Ive looked though quite a few mobos now including these below:-

Gigabyte

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...board&ProductID=2844&ProductName=GA-EP45-DS3L
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...rboard&ProductID=2920&ProductName=GA-EP45-UD3
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...oard&ProductID=2898&ProductName=GA-EP45-DS3LR

ASROCK

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P45TS-R&s=
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P45R2000-WiFi

MSI

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P45_Diamond&class=mb
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P45_Neo3-FR&class=mb

Think in the end im going to plumb for the Gigabyte GA-EP43-DSL3 if the only main difference is Crossfire supports.

So that an Intel Core 2 Duo E7200, married with the above mobo......excellent.

Now for RAM. Im thick when it comes to speeds/timings etc. Looking for 4gb minimum. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for help, knew i came here first for a reason! :D
 
Basically any DDR2-800 kit would do fine. You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 × [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

E7200: 9.5 × 266 = 2.5Ghz, DDR2-533 << STOCK
E7200: 9.5 × 333 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-667 << Nice OC
E7200: 9.5 × 366 = 3.5Ghz, DDR2-733 << Good OC
E7200: 9.5 × 400 = 3.8Ghz, DDR2-800 << Great OC
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/
 
Cheers gents, excellent little guide thanks.

Adakos - i have been looking at the G.Skill RAM. found these so far:-

http://www.memoryc.com/products/des..._MQ_Series_800MHz_Dual_Channel_kit/index.html

http://www.memoryc.com/products/des...CL5_Series_800MHz_Dual_Channel_kit/index.html

http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2ram/4gbgskill1000pc28000pq.html

http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2ram/4gbgskillpc26400pkserieskit.html

All from the same online store. I take it the lower cas latency and timings, the better the ram??

Cheers.
 
Buztafen said:
... I take it the lower cas latency and timings, the better the ram?? ...
Click to expand...

enginurd said:
... You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency. ...
Click to expand...

As you can see from that chart, all you need is DDR2-800 and CL5 memory.
 
PNY is ok, but those don't even have heatspreaders, so they're probably from their Value lineup. RAM doesn't really need heatspreaders, unless OC'ing, so it may be a non-issue to most people -- depending on how hot that RAM runs.
 
enginurd said:
PNY is ok, but those don't even have heatspreaders, so they're probably from their Value lineup. RAM doesn't really need heatspreaders, unless OC'ing, so it may be a non-issue to most people -- depending on how hot that RAM runs.
Click to expand...

Im hoping heat wont be much of a problem, the case i have (coolmaster praetorian) has a 120mm fan sucking air in which flows over the ram into the zalman cpu cooler which forces it back to the 2 x 80mm exhaust fans. Ive also a 120mm side fan drawing air in straight onto cpu cooler. Has kept things cool enough for a couple of years, even with the insanely hot Prescott in there :)

I'll probably end up making a snap decision as to wether or not i should go value or heat spread when the buying takes place...
 
Ok so heres the full spec:-

Intel E7200 Wolfdale Core2Duo - Best price £76.37 ($138.20)

Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L - Best Price £60.31 ($109.07) http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...board&ProductID=2847&ProductName=GA-EP43-DS3L

G.Skill 4gb Dual Channel PC2-6400 PQ CL5 - Best Price £57.70 ($104.34) http://www.memoryc.com/products/des...CL5_Series_800MHz_Dual_Channel_kit/index.html

or

PNY 4gb Dual Channel PC2-6400 - Best Price £39.99 ($72.27) http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/54482...800MHz+/+DDR2+/+240pin+DIMM+/+Computer+Memory

These components to combine with the following:-

Coolmaster Praetorian 730 Case (http://www.coolermaster.com/products...t=detail&id=48)
1 x X1900XTX GPU
2 x 160gb SATA HD's
2 x Optical drives (1 dual layer DVD-RW and soon to be purchased HD/Bluray drive)
1 x 9 in 1 card reader
1 x BT Wireless PCI Card
USB Keyboard & Mouse
600w Tagan dual 12v PSU

Hopefully this shuld give me a nice bump up in performance for not much outlay.
 
piXel said:
http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-280-AS Asus P5Q Pro

Go for that Mobo its £85 on Ebuyer aswell.
Click to expand...

I think for my needs the Gigabyte mobo will be fine. I dont need the P45 chipset because (as enginurd pointed out) the only real difference is Crossfire support. Also the Asus mobo doesnt have an Optical SPDIF out, only sports a Coaxial.

For £25 cheaper i think the Giga will do fine....

Still not sure which RAM to go for though....PNY value or £20 extra for the heat spreadered G.Skill?

Also in going to be reinstalling XP onto the new build for now. Will the fact that i'll have 4gb of ram installed (of which only 3gb can be 'used' by XP) cause any problems?
 
Adakos said:
Nope. You just wont see 4 gigs. Your system wont catch fire, kick you in the shins and then jump out a window.
Click to expand...

Awesome, cheers....though the whole kick in the shin thing would be quite fun to watch....if it happened to someone else.....and there was popcorn available.

Ok another hardware question i need help with.

Ive aquired 2 8800GTX's from my work which apparently BSOD, whats the returns policy on graphics cards? Theyre over a year old i think, is there anyway i can get one replaced if after testing they are kaput??:confused:
 
What brand are they? Many brands have lifetime warranties on such high end parts, while others have 1 or 3yr warranties. Check the brand's warranty info.
 
Im not sure of the brand. I know of the usual makes EVGA, BFG, XFX etc but theres no branding on either. They just have the nvidia logo on the fan top and a larger version on the heatsink shell. They were taken out of an Alienware computer used by my work processing digital terrain model flooding....

Whats the best way to stress test them? Ive run 3Dmark06 on both and get 5466 and 5462 on my sig computer, this is compared to 4934 when my X1900XTX is in. Does this sound about right considering my P4 might be a bottleneck?

Are there better programs/games that i can run make sure of these cards are kaput or not?
Cheers.
 
Just loop 3DMark and see if you get a BSOD. If not, then you're good to go!
 
I'll let it loop on the one installed tonight then, see what happens.

So is that score around average for this card then?
 
Ok so i left 3Dmark06 running overnight on a loop, turned the moniter on this morning and it just displayed 'mode unsupported' and i couldnt get the picture back. Looks like it fellover at some point. The card played Crysis ok last night, it didnt like it when i tried to overclock with ATItools though.....blackscreened. If it still displays in windows and works in games and a run through 3dmark it isnt totally fubar'd!?
 
Even if they are screwed, GTX's are not that expensive anymore so its something to consider buying, i guess.
 
True, but free is always better than not free!

Might just quietly liberate one of the GTX280 they got replaced with...surely they wont miss one....;)

Going to sell em as used and faulty on ebay i think, someone'll be able to do something with them....
 
Ok, so as per the original post im starting to get the pieces of my upgrade. Slight changes have been made since i settled on the setup on the last page.

Ive bought the Gigabyte GA-EP45-DQ6 instead of the GA-EP43-DS3L....i know, i wasnt going to go Crossfire and didnt need it but it was a steal at £100 so i went for it.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2831

This inturn has made me consider a Q6600 instead of the E7200.

I'll be using a 8800GTX thats been liberated from a work comp for now but have to option of getting 2 ATi cards when needed (Diablo 3, Farcry 2 etc)

So the question is, if i go for the Q6600 (or higher if someone puts a good word for a different processor forward :) ). What memory should i go for? i was still thinking 4GB. May aswell give overclocking a go eh!

Budget is now around £300 ($520ish) seen as ive already spent £40 over :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top