• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Upgrade - is this worthwhile?

R

redsrule2500

n00b
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
43
Currently, I have:

Phenom II X3 720 BE
HD 6870
4GB RAM

Is this a worthwhile upgrade:

Core i5-3570k
Compatible MB
8 GB RAM


Thanks. In my research it seems that for gaming the X3 720 is still fairly adequate, and this upgrade may not be worth the coin?

Should I instead upgrade my RAM and overclock? Thoughts?
 
gpu-asus 7850 oc or 7870 XT/7930 LE
ram-8gb ddr3 1600 with tight timings 9,9,9,24,36 1.5v or better
cpu-Phenom II x4 955BE/965BE Phenom II x6 1075t/1090t/1100t or FX 43xx 83xx

This should be the lowest cost upgrade to what you have, and if you do not have one, I also recomend a decent aftermarket cooler that will fit in the case that you have coolermaster hyper 212+ or spirit 120m would be good choices. This will show you a pretty nice jump in performance all around. 6870-7850 or better is a wicked jump, course, by waiting a month or so, there should be some shiny new cards avalable 8770 or above this will also drop the price of the 7 series which are a "steal" right now to begin with.
 
Your motherboard may not support Bulldozer/Piledriver. Latest BIOS release was 4 months after Bulldozer released and it was not added to compatible CPUs. Make sure you confirm compatibility before considering a purchase in that direction.
http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/list.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&m=m4a78t-e

In regards to your initial question, it would be a significant upgrade in CPU performance and will outperform basically anything in the current AMD lineup. But, there are a lot of other factors that will determine your gaming performance. The CPU upgrade will effect some games more than others. Whether or not it is worth the upgrade costs will depend on your expendable income and the use for your needs.
 
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

I guess, at this point, I'd be interested in learning how to Overclock and potentially attempt unlocking the 4th core, and upgrading my RAM to 8GB.

I'm not such an enthusiast that I want to throw a ton of money at the rig, just want to have a decent gaming computer.

Edit: I assume it would be best to just get another 2x2GB of the same RAM I have now; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193

Thanks again
 
Last edited:
redsrule2500 said:
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

I guess, at this point, I'd be interested in learning how to Overclock and potentially attempt unlocking the 4th core, and upgrading my RAM to 8GB.

I'm not such an enthusiast that I want to throw a ton of money at the rig, just want to have a decent gaming computer.

Edit: I assume it would be best to just get another 2x2GB of the same RAM I have now; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193

Thanks again
Click to expand...

4GB of RAM should be enough for most gaming. If you aren't using up your current available RAM adding 4GB more probably won't help. I'm not saying don't upgrade, but you probably won't notice a difference. To get more gaming performance out of your machine you're going to really want to look at your CPU and GPU. The problem with AMD AM3 upgrades is availability of chips that are worth upgrading to and then dealing with a potential markup if/when you do find them.

The X4 965 is the best AM3 CPU at newegg and is priced at $100, but it is not much of an upgrade over what you already have in gaming specifically:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/83?vs=102

By comparison for an extra $100 + mobo will get you a little more
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/83?vs=701
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/83?vs=288
 
Last edited:
You're going to be GPU bottlenecked anyway so it's not worth changing platforms if the money is going to a motherboard and CPU.

I'd keep what you have for now and then upgrade in about 6 months. Then you can go Intel with new hardware (and a new GPU) rather than limiting yourself now.

If you want to upgrade something then just buy an SSD that you can use later.
 
pelo said:
You're going to be GPU bottlenecked anyway so it's not worth changing platforms if the money is going to a motherboard and CPU.

I'd keep what you have for now and then upgrade in about 6 months. Then you can go Intel with new hardware (and a new GPU) rather than limiting yourself now.

If you want to upgrade something then just buy an SSD that you can use later.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I'm probably just going to wait a year or longer to upgrade everything. I just purchased 4 GB additional RAM, so I'll have that - but the cost/benefit of upgrading anything else doesn't make sense right now. I already have an SSD, so I'll probably just mess around with overclocking to get a little bump in CPU performance.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
It this is just foe gaming, you'd be better off buying a new GPU instead. Would cost a lot less money and make a much bigger improvement in performance than a new CPU would.
 
I think it would be worthwhile. I had an Athlon II X3 unlocked to X4 paired with a 5850 which is about equal to your 6870 and moving that card to a 2500k made a huge difference. I also think upgrading to 8 from 4GB is very worthwhile. For me, 4GB isn't enough to keep from tapping virtual memory for several games.

If you're gaming at 1080p or below, the CPU is going to make a bigger difference in most games, some exceptions being Metro/Crysis/FC3. But you can pretty easily tell where your bottleneck is by simply running something like MSI Afterbruner while playing a game. You can set the OSD to show your GPU usage while in game. If you're not fairly consistently between 90-100% utilization, a GPU upgrade would be a waste.
 
I wouldn`t say a waste. I was using an overclocked 6870 very nearly as high as they can be overclocked(1025 core 1250 memory) and going to the 7870 I am now using even at stock definately made quite a noticeable performance improvment in all the games I play, this was using the exact same hardware just changing the GPU.

955/965 do have the benfit of generally having a much higher tolerance for overclocking then the 720be, the 955 C3 are known to hith pretty decent overclocks for what they are, on average both the 955/965 tend to hit in the 4.1-4.4 range without much an issue provided you have a good motherboard to do so. 720be if I recall can hit usually in the 3.4-3.8 range, unlocking 3.2-3.6 range. So yes, there is not a huge difference in raw frame rates, but if taking everything into account, it is worthwhile for the bump in regards to using memory more effectively, lass likely to experience bottlenecks at mid-high resolution(especially with CPU reliant games which there are alot of)

The memory from 4gb to 8gb at the same speed, does make a difference in raw frame rates, less likely to hit the paging file(which windows does for no reason most times :p) I have quite a few freinds that were using 4gb of 1600 speed ram in dual channel of course for AMD and Intel hardware, just going to 8gb did make a performance improvement, thier total ram usage of 4gb was usually sitting around the 40% avail(windows alsways addresses it ahead of time at least moreso in win 7) my buddy basket just swapping the ram from 4gb 1600 kit 2x2gb to 2x4 gb gained 8-15fps in bf3 and he said he noticed COD BO also felt noticeably smoother.

To each thier own. I think ram and gpu would probably net more performance by all means, you can overclock possibly unlock the forth core and this would give even more raw performance, just do make sure you`re cooling is up to snuff.

6870 to a 7850 or above is noticeable, runs cooler, clocks alot higher, and the raw framerates are worthwile, not to mention, power usage/tamps are so much better. 6870 was a lovely card, but I am glad I got the 7870, anything above this is $ but intence performance really, you are using 64 bit I assume?

Your $, your call.
 
RamonGTP said:
I think it would be worthwhile. I had an Athlon II X3 unlocked to X4 paired with a 5850 which is about equal to your 6870 and moving that card to a 2500k made a huge difference. I also think upgrading to 8 from 4GB is very worthwhile. For me, 4GB isn't enough to keep from tapping virtual memory for several games.
Click to expand...

Yet spending $300 on a GPU alone and keeping his current motherboard and CPU would net him better FPS than a 2500K upgrade and platform change.

It really isn't worth upgrading if you're going to do it piece by piece given your already (somewhat) dated hardware. If you had a 2500K then buying a 3770K would at least make some bit of sense. But you're on a AM3 with a Phenom II x3, so you'd have to change your CPU and motherboard to get a noticeable bump in performance, and that's just not worth doing unless you're willing to part with the 6870 as well.

The reason a 2500K scores better at lower resolutions is because the GPU isn't hitting its ceiling, thus the CPU scores mean more. What he doesn't mention is that both CPUs would provide more than playable frame rates at lower than 1080p resolutions. There would only be a certain subset of games where the 2500K provides considerably more frame rates and those are CPU heavy games like Starcraft II and other RTS titles, which, btw, don't need any more than 30 FPS for perfect fluidity.

Just wait it out. You can buy a 1155 upgrade now and it would definitely last you a while, but you won't see much in the way of FPS bumps given you're already GPU bottlenecked with a 6870. Now if you had a 7970 or GTX680 then my recommendation would change ;)
 
very good pelo, not many make light of this.
better cpu will bump up performance, BUT, if frame rates are more then playable as is, generally speaking adding in a couple more FPS does next to nothing. This is often not considered, its usually a blanket stamtent to say "you have to use Intel or Nvidia to get the most for the $" when something plays or works well, then all is fair and usually boils down to cost, sometimes we just do not have the $ to do a massive upgrade and just want that bump.

However, a quad core vs a tri core(not all unlocked tri cores are true quad cores 720be unlocked loses on L3 cache or something I forget) does help background tasks more effictively, so "productivity" wise, it is worth considering.

I think it depends on what you can afford, what resolution you are running at, what games/apps you play/use etc.

Overclocking alone can sometimes make the difference between no quite smooth, and more then smooth, provided you do it intelligently without killing your components by pusthin to much voltage/temps through them.
 
pelo said:
Yet spending $300 on a GPU alone and keeping his current motherboard and CPU would net him better FPS than a 2500K upgrade and platform change.
Click to expand...

Blanket statements like this are simply wrong. It would depend on the game and his resolution. Like I said, he can easily check if the GPU is being held back and if it is, spending $1 or $1000 on a new GPU isn't going to do anything except cost him money and give him nothing in return.

And I'm not talking about "scores" my example is real world, in-game performance. If your GPU is hitting a wall a new CPU won't do a thing. It's not like the game will offload more to the CPU if the GPU is taxed. So i'm not sure what you're talking about there. The same is true in reverse. If the CPU is taxed, a more powerful GPU won't lessen the load on the CPU.
 
but, a more efficent gpu will for the most part offer more performance. Ther eis not that much different between something like the 6870 and the 7870. 7870 is simply more efficent. 99% usage on both will net simply more raw frames at proper resolution(1050p 1080p and such)

Now, if you were multi-card and truly bottlenecked by cpu not being powerfull enough to feed them, or if the motherboard is not giving full bandwidth so the card can do its thing, then yes, you would see very little difference except for power/temps possibly noise, and maybe the ability to use slightly higher settings.

I know my core 2 E8400 benefitted from the 4870-6870-7870 and if there was a chip that should be bottlenecked it would have been that based on benchmarks, real world tests etc.

a very high end gpu like dual cards, well, then by far yes, you need as much raw grunt as you can get, but overall, most games are not that much cpu limited, they are gpu limited for the most part, a small clock bump on the cpu, with a more powerfull gpu, gains a fair amount of FPS and usually also allows better quality settings, so maybe the gpu is still tapped out 99% and still gives same frames but also looks alot nicer and more fluid to the eye.
 
It's a considerable CPU upgrade, but for gaming, you'll want to upgrade to a better graphics card first. Some games utilize a good amount of CPU resources, but hit the GPU wall first, then upgrade your CPU.
 
dragonstongue said:
but, a more efficent gpu will for the most part offer more performance. Ther eis not that much different between something like the 6870 and the 7870. 7870 is simply more efficent. 99% usage on both will net simply more raw frames at proper resolution(1050p 1080p and such)

Now, if you were multi-card and truly bottlenecked by cpu not being powerfull enough to feed them, or if the motherboard is not giving full bandwidth so the card can do its thing, then yes, you would see very little difference except for power/temps possibly noise, and maybe the ability to use slightly higher settings.

I know my core 2 E8400 benefitted from the 4870-6870-7870 and if there was a chip that should be bottlenecked it would have been that based on benchmarks, real world tests etc.

a very high end gpu like dual cards, well, then by far yes, you need as much raw grunt as you can get, but overall, most games are not that much cpu limited, they are gpu limited for the most part, a small clock bump on the cpu, with a more powerfull gpu, gains a fair amount of FPS and usually also allows better quality settings, so maybe the gpu is still tapped out 99% and still gives same frames but also looks alot nicer and more fluid to the eye.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with efficiency. It has to do with the relative power of the GPU and CPU. If he is hitting 99% usage regularly on his 6870, then yes, he should upgrade that first. If however he is hitting 75% getting a more powerful GPU will end up with even less utilization... So yeah, "more efficient" if you want to call it that, but he isn't going to get any additional performance out of it which i'm pretty sure is what he's after.

All i'm saying is that she should check his utilization before making the decision. Far too often, people automatically recommend a GPU upgrading while knowing absolutely no details about the situation... (like almost everyone in this thread) And far too often, it's the wrong piece of hardware to upgrade
 
I'd just OC the cpu and sit on my money until the new gear from Intel, Nvidia, and AMD comes out. A simple multiplier OC on the cpu and a modest OC on the gpu would give him another 6 months of use out of his system. To tell the truth if he lowered a few settings in games he'd get just as much of a boost to frame rates as overclocking. I ran BF3 on a X3 just fine if I lowered a setting or two from Ultra to High. That game would his biggest bottleneck.

Also OP could you list what else you do with your PC besides game? It's very important and really we need to know what parts you have right now to really inform you correctly. Resolution that you're trying to game at makes a big difference in recommendations.
 
as someone who owned a system nearly exactly like the op's; an x3 720be+gigabyte 790x ud4p+8gb 1066+msi 6870, simply unlocking the 4th core will earn some improvements at 1080p. some games more than others of course, but when it came to the 5 titles i played most; arkham city, bf3, crysis 2, re5, and metro 2033, what improved most for me wasn't max or min frames but an overall improvement in smoothness. unlocking the 4th core isn't guaranteed with the 720be but overclocking is very easy to do, and achieving 3ghz+ requires only changing the multiplier.
 
Unlocking/overclocking is a good stop-gap provided his motherboard can keep up with the added power demands it would bring.

EDIT: Looks like it can support 140watt TDP processors so he should be ok on that front.
 
Ok my own experience, some games were tapping my 6870 48-65%(cpu reliant) others were tapping 80-99%, JUST, by swapping the gpu which again, I was on a core 2 E8400, just by swapping to more powerfull gpu my frame rates did go up., and it was not by a small amount either(double digits low-high-average)better quality, frame rates, temperatures, noise.

IDK how else to word this, if you are using a sverly underpowered cpu like an Athlon 64 dual core, Athlon II x2, Phenom quad, or something, then yeh you would be severely bottlenecked to begin with, however, I do not think there is anywhere close to that amount of bottleneck happening.

I have a freind who still to this day uses his 720be as a tri core clocked to 3.4 multiplier alone, has not played with HT, CPU/NB or nothing, and is using dual GTX460(full shader models) and his frame rates/usage aare very similar to some in the clan using GTX56ti and core i7 first gen 800/900 series. While he does lag a bit and cannot use quite as high settings, he does get within 5 frames or so of them.

Anyways, holding off till the 8k and 700 series come out or hear more about them is not a bad idea, at least it gives time to play with your overclocking for the graphics card, cpu and such.
 
cageymaru said:
Also OP could you list what else you do with your PC besides game? It's very important and really we need to know what parts you have right now to really inform you correctly. Resolution that you're trying to game at makes a big difference in recommendations.
Click to expand...

I'm running at 1920x1200, on one 24" LCD. I want to get a second 24" LCD soon. Besides gaming, mostly just HD videos/movies, web browsing, and organizing/maintaining local servers (I have over 20 TB).
 
technically your pc is very gaming compatible i had a very similar rig phenom II x4 965, 4gb ram, and a 6870 it took everything i tossed at it and kept till i decided upgraded to what i have now

if you are serious about upgrading get an amd combo at micro center http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx you get an am3+ board for practically nothing and an fx cpu for your workload.

Also get a ssd or this puppy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226336 till my ssd cache everything was a little sluggish on my old p2 x4 after it was significantly faster due to every application and game loading faster.
 
Last edited:
redsrule2500 said:
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

I guess, at this point, I'd be interested in learning how to Overclock and potentially attempt unlocking the 4th core, and upgrading my RAM to 8GB.

I'm not such an enthusiast that I want to throw a ton of money at the rig, just want to have a decent gaming computer.

Edit: I assume it would be best to just get another 2x2GB of the same RAM I have now; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193

Thanks again
Click to expand...

You can start to overclock that BE chip in about 2 minutes.
A search for PhenomII Overclock should give you plenty of useful information. you should be able to reach at least the mid-3xxx range at stock voltage. Problems probably won't arise until you get to ~3.7. Go slowly, one multiplier at a time, and test each step with a few of the standard 'stability testing' programs. Use the computer for a day as well, and back off if you encounter any weirdness.

IMO, unlocking a potentially flaky 4th core should not be the first item to address. Play around with the 3 known-good cores for a while. Once you better understand the whole OC thing, then you can back up and try an unlock. Most games you're likely to be playing won't run any faster at 4x than 3x anyway, and the extra heat generated by the 4th core may actually prove counter-productive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top