• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Upgrade advice needed.

B

Badgercat

Weaksauce
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
124
So I am finally looking to upgrade. More of a want than a need, my old rig still does pretty well. The following was what I was going to upgrade too, but then I started to think too hard.

- Intel Core i7-5820K
- Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4
- 4x4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4/2400
- Cooler Master Nepton 280L Cooler

I would likely keep the rest of my hardware for now. Not sure if I want to get into a GPU upgrade at this point or not. What has me thinking:

- Do I go for the 5930K? I doubt I will ever use multiple GPU'S, so I can likely make do with the 28 PCIe lanes, unless I am missing another benefit to the 5930K

- Do I go for a more expensive motherboard? I have always been an Asus motherboard guy...always. Never had an issue, not sure about Gigabyte. Thoughts?

- Do I bother with a different brand or RAM? Does it even matter at this point?

- Always liked the Corsair coolers. The H100i and the 105, but I heard the one I mentioned is good. Any thoughts?

I appreciate any thoughts even if they are outside of these questions. Thanks everyone!
 
What are you using this for?

The answer to that question confirms whether or not you even need Socket 2011v3.
 
tiraides said:
What are you using this for?

The answer to that question confirms whether or not you even need Socket 2011v3.
Click to expand...

Well that answer is simple, I do not need it. In fact I do not "need" to upgrade at all really. It is a want. I have had my current system for 5 years and I wanted to upgrade. My reasoning for going with the 2011v3 is that it is current, and it supports DDR4. I figure if you are going to build a rig, you might as well use the most current stuff. I know I could go with a Devil's Canyon and some DDR3 and save myself some money, but I am likely going to keep this system up and running for the next 5 years and I want to build as current as possible.

But to be more direct with your question: I use it primarily to game, I do remote tech support, music encoding. My girlfriend does a ton of lightroom and photo editing. She is serious about photography. That is really about it.
 
OP, go for it.

X99 is beastmode and will be for many years to come. It sounds like you and your girl will put the extra cores on the 5820k to good use. Overclock that sucker and you will have 5930k performance and then some for half the $$$. Use those savings to load up on extra ram or IO options. Your choice of board shoudn't matter so much as you aren't paying much more than $300 for one. The Corsair CLCs are excellent choices.

My only immediate recommend would be to go for higher density ram now so you can really max things out of you need to in the future and not have to deal with extra sticks of unused ram that may be hard to move.
 
Last edited:
Assuming that you go X99 anyway:
- No need to go with 5930K unless you're planning on doing quad-SLI or CFX.

- Well what features do you want in a motherboard?

- The main advantage of X99 is sheer RAM density. In other words, you're more or less negating that advantage with a 4 x 4GB set. So go for a 2 x 8GB or 4 x 8GB set. I mean, if you're already going this far with the X99 platform, might as well take advantage of it.

- First and foremost: What case do you have? No point in talking about thos 240mm coolers if we don't know if your case can actually fit it.


Now, despite what you may think, now would be a good time to upgrade even if you don't "want" to. There's been sufficient CPU performance increases since your Core i7 860 to warrant a new CPU + mobo upgrade. However, your reasons for going 2011v3 doesn't quite hold up: The X99 platform only has the following advantages over the Z97 platform:
- Two extra cores
- Two extra SATA 6.0Gb/s ports
- Four More RAM slots
- More PCI-E lanes (if going 5930K)

Besides the above, they're practically the same. DDR4 RAM itself isn't really an advantage since current Intel platforms do not take advantage of the higher RAM speed. In addition, the 5820K and the 4790K are both based on the same Hawell architecture. So their clock for clock performance is exactly the same. In fact, in single-threaded usage, the 4790K would actually be faster than the 5820K. I bring that up because of the usages you've brought up, only music encoding would show a difference between the 5820K and the 4790K. Even then that's only if you do a ton of it. For games, light room, and photoshop usage, the extra two cores of the 5820K is practically worthless but the higher clock speed of the 4790K makes a difference.

There's still one saving grace for going X99: How likely is your girlfriend going to need more than 32GB of RAM for her Lightroom/photo-editing work? If my head math is right, for less than the price of the X99 platform, you can go with the Core i7 4790K, 32GB of DDR3 RAM, and a $150 motherboard and that should be more than enough for photoshop/lightroom work.
 
Dangman said:
Assuming that you go X99 anyway:
- No need to go with 5930K unless you're planning on doing quad-SLI or CFX.

- Well what features do you want in a motherboard?

- The main advantage of X99 is sheer RAM density. In other words, you're more or less negating that advantage with a 4 x 4GB set. So go for a 2 x 8GB or 4 x 8GB set. I mean, if you're already going this far with the X99 platform, might as well take advantage of it.

- First and foremost: What case do you have? No point in talking about thos 240mm coolers if we don't know if your case can actually fit it.


Now, despite what you may think, now would be a good time to upgrade even if you don't "want" to. There's been sufficient CPU performance increases since your Core i7 860 to warrant a new CPU + mobo upgrade. However, your reasons for going 2011v3 doesn't quite hold up: The X99 platform only has the following advantages over the Z97 platform:
- Two extra cores
- Two extra SATA 6.0Gb/s ports
- Four More RAM slots
- More PCI-E lanes (if going 5930K)

Besides the above, they're practically the same. DDR4 RAM itself isn't really an advantage since current Intel platforms do not take advantage of the higher RAM speed. In addition, the 5820K and the 4790K are both based on the same Hawell architecture. So their clock for clock performance is exactly the same. In fact, in single-threaded usage, the 4790K would actually be faster than the 5820K. I bring that up because of the usages you've brought up, only music encoding would show a difference between the 5820K and the 4790K. Even then that's only if you do a ton of it. For games, light room, and photoshop usage, the extra two cores of the 5820K is practically worthless but the higher clock speed of the 4790K makes a difference.

There's still one saving grace for going X99: How likely is your girlfriend going to need more than 32GB of RAM for her Lightroom/photo-editing work? If my head math is right, for less than the price of the X99 platform, you can go with the Core i7 4790K, 32GB of DDR3 RAM, and a $150 motherboard and that should be more than enough for photoshop/lightroom work.
Click to expand...

Hey there,

Thanks for all of the information, that is really great. You brought up a lot of points that I have gone over in my head. I am just thinking, would the x99 build be more "futureproof" shall we say? There is something that just burns me deep down inside building a rig on DDR3 now that DDR4 has been released. I have no idea why.

Also, I was under the impression that I could be setting myself up with the ability to update the CPU if I go 2001v3. I have read that 2011v3 will see possible upgrades available with Broadwell-E and Skylake-E.

Also, isn't the 4790 at 16 lanes of PCI-E whereas at least the 5820 is at 28 lanes (not sure if this has any impact on what I do).

As for the processor. I will never go quad SLI. I would do two cards tops, and I usually just try to buy the best single card possible. I am not into the whole multi card set up. That is just too much money for me.

My case, it is a Corsair Obsidian 650D, so I should be able to fit just about whatever I want into that.

In the end the great 4790 vs 5820 debate is still alive and well.
 
The only discernible difference between 28 on 5820k and 16 on 4790k is that 5820k can run 3 GPU's on native lanes @ x8/x8/x8 configuration rather needing to use PLX for 4790k. From what I could see, PLX lanes does not work as smoothly as native lanes.

However, I have no proof that in a dual GPU setup, a X16/X8 yields any significant benefit over X8/X8 due to the total lack of information on the matter, only X16/X16 and X8/X8 are debated. X16/X16 yields no significant benefit over X8/X8 in dual GPU, so I assume it is true for X16/X8.

However with 5820k, there are 4 'spare' lanes available for your other non-GPU PCI-E bandwidth eating cards, where as there isn't any spares on 4790k.
 
Badgercat said:
Hey there,

Thanks for all of the information, that is really great. You brought up a lot of points that I have gone over in my head. I am just thinking, would the x99 build be more "futureproof" shall we say?
Click to expand...
Based on currently available information and your planned usage, no, it's not going to be "future-proof". You haven't really said anything where a X99 platform would be a good use of your money. There are plenty of good reasons to go with the X99 platform over the Z97 platform. You just haven't mentioned any of those yet.

Badgercat said:
There is something that just burns me deep down inside building a rig on DDR3 now that DDR4 has been released. I have no idea why.
Click to expand...
Tis' the nature of the PC market.
Badgercat said:
Also, I was under the impression that I could be setting myself up with the ability to update the CPU if I go 2001v3. I have read that 2011v3 will see possible upgrades available with Broadwell-E and Skylake-E.
Click to expand...
The thing is that more than likely Broadwell-E and Skylake-E won't be major enough performance improvements to justify the costs of a CPU upgrade. Judging from past Intel CPU releases, you really won't see a worthwhile performance increase over either the 4790K or 5820K until 2018 to 2020 give or take. Each Intel CPU release has only gained about 5% to 10% in performance increases with the rare 15% in one instance. Not to mention that Skylake-E support isn't universal and is largely limited to a handful of X99 motherboards IIRC.

An example of what I'm talking about: The Intel Core i5 2500K was released in 2011. Because of the relative slow rate of CPU performance increases, people who have the 2500K could last until 2016 to 2017 at the earliest for their next CPU + mobo upgrade.
Badgercat said:
Also, isn't the 4790 at 16 lanes of PCI-E whereas at least the 5820 is at 28 lanes (not sure if this has any impact on what I do).
Click to expand...
Those numbers are correct. However, there's no impact whatsoever since you're mainly sticking with a single GPU. Even if you had plans for SLI, that's still plenty.

Badgercat said:
My case, it is a Corsair Obsidian 650D, so I should be able to fit just about whatever I want into that.
Click to expand...
I'd stick with the 280L then since it apparently cools better than either of the Corsair AIO you've mentioned.
 
Hey Dangman,

Thanks for all the information, that is great.

I have done some build comparisons and to be honest, the build cost is not going to be a lot different. Maybe $300 tops. This is due to the fact that I would probably go with 32GB of RAM, and a higher end motherboard if I went with the 4790K.

I am relatively sure that I am never going to run multiple GPU'S and if I did, I certainly would not run more than two.

I guess my only lingering concern is the ability to upgrade to 64GB or more of RAM. It would be more for my girl's photo editing and encoding, less for me actually. I know right now in 2014 I can't even imagine using that amount of RAM, but if I keep this computer for 5 or so years, am I going to regret being stuck at 32 GB? If I was a 2-3 year upgrader I would totally go for the 4790K no question.
 
Badgercat said:
I have done some build comparisons and to be honest, the build cost is not going to be a lot different. Maybe $300 tops. This is due to the fact that I would probably go with 32GB of RAM, and a higher end motherboard if I went with the 4790K.
Click to expand...
To me, $300 is a significant chunk of change since that can be used towards the next CPU + mobo upgrade, better video cards, more hard drives (a lot of photoshop work means larged sized files), a file server/NAS/external hard drive to backup any valuable files

Badgercat said:
I guess my only lingering concern is the ability to upgrade to 64GB or more of RAM. It would be more for my girl's photo editing and encoding, less for me actually. I know right now in 2014 I can't even imagine using that amount of RAM, but if I keep this computer for 5 or so years, am I going to regret being stuck at 32 GB? If I was a 2-3 year upgrader I would totally go for the 4790K no question.
Click to expand...
Tested (a site run by the Mythbusters) shows that's generally most cost-effective to upgrade more frequently then to pay more up-front at a certain point:
http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/460415-pc-building-pay-more-front-or-upgrade-regularly/

Now think about it this way: That's an extra $300 for the X99 platform PLUS the extra costs for the DDR4 RAM. Something you also probably don't know: DDR4 allows for greater RAM density. In other words, more than likely in the next few years we'll be seeing single 16GB sticks of consumer grade DDR4 RAM available. You could use that $300 towards whatever new Intel platform is available and end up with a PC with 64GB of RAM for relatively cheap. You really have to demonstrate right now that your girlfriend is going to end up using more than 32GB of RAM in order for it to be justified. You can't future proof anything. You can only build according to the foreseeable future.
 
Hey Dangman,

Thanks again. You have some good information there. I am going to read that article ASAP. I will include a link to possible builds on both fronts. It turns out the cost difference is not that much at all, but I will get 32GB of ram vs 16GB with the 5820K. My only issue if I go with the 4790K is what Mobo and RAM to go with. If I am going to build the 4790K I might as well go with high end mobo and 32GB of RAM, and it will just be what it is until I do another complete overhaul in 5 years.

Can you take a look at these and first tell me what you think about the choice still given the small cost difference. Also If you lean towards one build maybe you can suggest some changes and tell me why.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the responses.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/badgercat/saved/sR2BD3

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/badgercat/saved/hs9ypg
 
I don't like the 4790K build because the motherboard choice utterly defeats the point of the Z97 platform over the X99 platform: Lower overall cost. It's like saying I don't want to spend $100 on an expensive meal at a well rated restaurant so I'm going to spend $100 on McDonalds instead. :confused: At least with the X99 platform, you're getting enough extra features/advantages that justify spending $300+ on a motherboard. With Z97, there's no point spending $200+ on a motherboard since there's no appreciable feature and/or quality increase that would justify that much money.

What actual features do you need in a motherboard?

Also, with current Intel platforms, they don't see any sort of real world performance increases with higher speed RAM. As such, that DDR3 2133 is a waste since you won't notice any difference between it and any DDR3 1600 RAM set. So go for the cheapest DDR3 1600 CAS 9 set you can find and you'll be set.
 
Dangman said:
I don't like the 4790K build because the motherboard choice utterly defeats the point of the Z97 platform over the X99 platform: Lower overall cost. It's like saying I don't want to spend $100 on an expensive meal at a well rated restaurant so I'm going to spend $100 on McDonalds instead. :confused: At least with the X99 platform, you're getting enough extra features/advantages that justify spending $300+ on a motherboard. With Z97, there's no point spending $200+ on a motherboard since there's no appreciable feature and/or quality increase that would justify that much money.

What actual features do you need in a motherboard?

Also, with current Intel platforms, they don't see any sort of real world performance increases with higher speed RAM. As such, that DDR3 2133 is a waste since you won't notice any difference between it and any DDR3 1600 RAM set. So go for the cheapest DDR3 1600 CAS 9 set you can find and you'll be set.
Click to expand...

Hey Dangman,

Fair enough, I see where you are coming from. However, in fairness I could go for a decent $250 x99 mobo, and I could maybe even get some slightly cheaper RAM. I know, not a huge difference, but I could likely cut cost on both builds.

I must confess I have put a lot more time into looking into the X99 build, but you are making a good argument for X79. I might even be going X79 now as a direct result of these discussions.

How about this, I will give you my best list of what I use/need it for, you give me a your best cost/performance X79 build...if you don't mind :)

Exterior connections:

USB: Webcam, keyboard, mouse, Logitech headset, Xbox wireless controller. In addition, my original 650D case has the two pass through USB three front headers that plug into the rear of the board. So a lot of USB is good, 3.0 ports are idea. I could use a external to internal 3.0 USB adapter if need be but I was going to try and avoid that.

Other Ports: DVI for monitor, 3.5 mm jack for my Logitech speakers.

Internal: I usually have a bunch of HDD's on the go. So I am looking for a lot of SATA III ports. I have: SSD, 2 HDD raid, 1 HDD for virtual machines, 1 HDD for misc stuff, 1 ODD for disc based media. Also my hard drive bay in the top of the case uses a SATA port. The case uses the internal USB 2.0 headers for the front panel. I will need to run the water cooler/fan, plus a few case fans.

As for the GPU, I will likely only ever use one, but I would may be open to dual SLI in the future. Maybe a suggestion for a new GPU if I can swing it. I prefer Nvidia.

Computer use: A lot of gaming, music encoding, music listening, running virtual machines for tech support, many misc programs...nothing of note. I do use photoshop from time to time, but I have yet to become a heavy user. My girlfriend has a very high end camera and deals with a lot of huge RAW files. She does a lot of editing and is a big lightroom user. Also some possible photoshop use, and video encoding.

In the future I might be interested in M.2 support and a possible PCIe expansion card of some sort.

That is it off the top of my head.
 
Last edited:
I don't recall making a good argument for X79. In fact, I actually would recommend AGAINST X79 now that X99 is here. Did you mean Z97?
 
Something like GA-Z97X-UD5H? Has nearly all of the features you mentioned: 8 USB ports at the back with headers for 6 more, two types of LAN, 6 SATA ports, M.2 slot.
 
Dangman said:
Ahh ok,

Hold up: Does your 650D not come with the normal USB 3.0 internal connector? It looks like this:
http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/1619529-c.jpg

Also, by build, did you mean the whole PC or just the parts categories that you've listed? If the latter, what PSU are you planning on reusing/buying?
Click to expand...

Hey,

My 650D does not have the internal connection, but I have purchased one if needed. I figured one day I may need it so its been kicking around for a year or two.

So for build I would be keeping the following parts:

- PSU: Antec TP-750W
- SSD: Samsung Evo 500GB
- HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB RAID 1 (for now)
- GPU: EVGA GTX 670 FTW 2GB (undecided)
- Case: Corsair Obsidian 650D

What I am looking to buy for the build, that I need help with:

- MOBO
- CPU
- RAM
- Cooler/Fan
- GPU (undecided)

Thanks
 
For the motherboard, go for the Asus Z97-A. Should fit your needs just fine. The 4790K is a good choice for a CPU.

Now for the cooler, if you're planning on overclocking as high as reasonably possible, the Coolermaster Nepton 280L is a solid choice. However, if you're just looking for something that's better than stock while having a solid bang for the buck value, that would be the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo or the Coolermaster Seidon 120V. No, I'm not pro-Coolermaster. I'm pro-bang for the buck value :)

As for the RAM, like I said earlier, go for the cheapest DDR3 1600 CAS 9 set you can find and you'll be set.

If you want to do a GPU upgrade, assuming that you're playing AAA high-end games and have a resolution of 1920x1080 at a minimum, I would aim for the GTX 970 or the R9 290 cards. You can see the performance difference between the GTX 970 and the GTX 670 here:
http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1349?vs=1355
 
Dangman said:
For the motherboard, go for the Asus Z97-A. Should fit your needs just fine. The 4790K is a good choice for a CPU.

Now for the cooler, if you're planning on overclocking as high as reasonably possible, the Coolermaster Nepton 280L is a solid choice. However, if you're just looking for something that's better than stock while having a solid bang for the buck value, that would be the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo or the Coolermaster Seidon 120V. No, I'm not pro-Coolermaster. I'm pro-bang for the buck value :)

As for the RAM, like I said earlier, go for the cheapest DDR3 1600 CAS 9 set you can find and you'll be set.

If you want to do a GPU upgrade, assuming that you're playing AAA high-end games and have a resolution of 1920x1080 at a minimum, I would aim for the GTX 970 or the R9 290 cards. You can see the performance difference between the GTX 970 and the GTX 670 here:
http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1349?vs=1355
Click to expand...

*Edit*

Thanks man. Done all the purchasing except for the motherboard. Been doing some research on best bang for your buck mobo's. I found the following two get the highest ratings. I might jump ship and get a non asus board. What do you think of these two:

- Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz97xud5h
- MSI Z97 Gaming 7 https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-z97gaming7

Thanks
 
Last edited:
They're good motherboards if you can take advantage of all of their extra features. Otherwise, they're not really worth the money IMO. So far, you haven't really shown or said anything where a higher cost motherboard is justified.

IN other words, what exactly about those two motherboards that makes you want them more over the Asus Z97-A?
 
Dangman said:
They're good motherboards if you can take advantage of all of their extra features. Otherwise, they're not really worth the money IMO. So far, you haven't really shown or said anything where a higher cost motherboard is justified.

IN other words, what exactly about those two motherboards that makes you want them more over the Asus Z97-A?
Click to expand...

Hey,

Well I actually really like that Asus board, in fact Asus was my first choice. I could probably make do with that board, however I need more than 4 SATA ports. I need at least 6 for sure. I also like the greater number of USB 3.0 ports on the other boards, but it is not a huge deal. The separated audio features on the two boards I linked look cool. Not sure now good it is, but it is supposed to stop cross talk and give a better audio signal. I listen to a lot of uncompressed music, I have a lot. Big on audio where it doesn't cost a fortune. I see the Asus board has something similar, but maybe to a slightly lesser scale

On a side note, I went ahead and ordered this RAM as I got a good deal on it. It is a higher clock speed than you suggested, but the price difference with the 1600 was next to nothing and I read multiple articles stating that you will see a difference with haswell chips (but any chips before haswell, it made no sense to go over 1600)

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/gskill-memory-f32133c9q32gzh

It is on the QVL for both of the boards I sent you, but not on the Asus board. I know sometimes that QVL's are hit and miss...however I had a bad experience once with RAM that was not on the QVL and a lot of stability issues.

As a side note, the price difference for me between the two I mentioned and the asus board is $35, so I won't lose too much sleep no matter which way I go

For sure if that Asus board had at least 6 SATA ports and the RAM was on the QVL, I would likely go that way no question
 
Last edited:
Badgercat said:
Hey,

Well I actually really like that Asus board, in fact Asus was my first choice. I could probably make do with that board, however I need more than 4 SATA ports. I need at least 6 for sure. I also like the greater number of USB 3.0 ports on the other boards, but it is not a huge deal. I also like the separated audio features on the two boards I linked. Not sure now good it is, but it is supposed to stop cross talk and give a better audio signal. I listen to a lot of uncompressed music, I have a lot. Big on audio where it doesn't cost a fortune.
Click to expand...
If audio is actually important, then you want to get a separate dedicated sound card for that. Virtually most onboard audio are nowhere near the level of a cheap sound card like the Asus DGX.

But you do have a point about the sata ports. Considering the prices of those mobos, I recommend checking out the Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard since it's apparently ~$200 CAD:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-maximusviihero

Badgercat said:
On a side note, I went ahead and ordered this RAM as I got a good deal on it. It is a higher clock speed than you suggested, but the price difference with the 1600 was next to nothing and I read multiple articles stating that you will see a difference with haswell chips (but any chips before haswell, it made no sense to go over 1600)
Click to expand...
I'm sure I saw many of those same articles: If you actually look at the data itself, the differences were mostly unnoticeable in most real world situations. Believe me when I say this: I've yet to see any article that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's a noticeable real world performance improvement in common real-world apps and games in most situations when it comes to Intel platforms.
 
Ok fair enough.

Looks like the cheapest I can get the Maximus board is going to be about $240 CD. Compared to about $195 for Gigabyte and MSI, and $160 for the Z97-A.

I am not sure if I want to start venturing into the mid 200's or not for a few more SATA ports. Seems to me the sweet spot could be the Gigabyte and MSI.

I am definitely committed to that RAM now for better or worse and the whole QVL thing still freaks me out

*Edit*

Just found an article from Maximum PC that has all three boards in it.

http://www.maximumpc.com/z97_comes__2014
 
Uggg, Maximum PC.

Well in that case. go for the Gigabyte.
 
Dangman said:
Uggg, Maximum PC.

Well in that case. go for the Gigabyte.
Click to expand...

Haha, no friends there eh? If it makes you feel better I found one of their articles backing up almost everything you said about the build, and going with the 4790 over the 5820.

I appreciate all the help man, really. It is a lot of time out only to get 1000 questions and essentially no reward. Thanks again
 
Badgercat said:
Haha, no friends there eh? If it makes you feel better I found one of their articles backing up almost everything you said about the build, and going with the 4790 over the 5820.

I appreciate all the help man, really. It is a lot of time out only to get 1000 questions and essentially no reward. Thanks again
Click to expand...
Actually, the author I don't have much of a problem it: It's the site/magazine itself: Too many superficial articles with not enough depth. Not to mention the sheer number of ads.

Well good luck with the build!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top