Updating an old Lian Li PC-65?

[Jherek]

Hi all,

I just picked up a nearly flawless, but rather old, Lian Li PC-65 USB. It looks exactly like the one here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112024

It's just like the PC-60, but has a side window.

I'm going to do a AMD build, using this case - probably something like a Phenom x4 Black Edition, with single mid-range video card. I am concerned, though, that the cooling ability of this oldish case isn't up to handling a modern build.

I've cut a few blowholes, etc., in cheap cases before, but this is the first really first-rate case I've ever owned and am reluctant to mod it, unless I'm sure as to the best way to proceed.

Assessment of stock case:

The good: Looks nice, and is very sturdy allumium, with pull out motherboard tray, side window, etc.

The bad:

All four fans are 80mm (uggg~!); two in front, with a three-way controller; one rear, and one top. I can't abide the noise from 80mm fans, unless they are very low RPM - and that wouldn't ensure enough airflow under load. It also seems that ALL the fans are unnecessarily restricted. The fan slits on top seems especially poorly thought out; they aren't long enough to expose the full diameter of the 80mm fan.

What can I do to update this case? It doesn't have to be silent, but I like the calm airflow of 120mm fans running in the 1200 RPM (or less) range. I don't mind the 80mm front fans, as I plan to run them at low speed, so they'll be nearly silent.

Doing some quick measurements, it seems that putting a 120mm on the back would be a very tight fit, and would require cutting off most of the top of the back of the motherboard tray, and, also, into the rear vertical support along the edge of the case itself. Has anyone ever pulled this off? That would be my first choice, if it's feasible to do.

A 120mm (or 140mm?) top fan would be easy to do. But, would doing that provide enough cooling?

What do you guys think I should do?

 

[mannyman]

Not that i have a high power system or anything, I ran my sig computer in a Coolermaster atcs 100 sx, It had 1 top 80mm and 2 front 80mm and the back is all perforated and i never had the side air duct and my temps where fine.

 

[Jherek]

That older Coolermaster case looks very similiar to the PC-6X. Good to know that cooling with 80mm wouldn't be too bad. It's the fan noise that worries me, though.

 

[wwischerath]

If cooling is an issue, why not use SandyBridge or one of the new Llano APUs. They run cooler.

Having said that, my Lian Li case has 0 fans. Cooled by PSU exhausting and vents. System never overheats. Your case looks like plenty of room for larger fans up top, but difficult to enlarge the fronts. You can get a template for the fans from MNPC, as well as the grills. Heck, looks like you got room on top for two 120mm fans! (if you dont mind a negative pressure case). and dont forget, your PSU is up there as well helping to extract hot air.

PS: Good looking case!

 

[Jherek]

If cooling is an issue, why not use SandyBridge or one of the new Llano APUs. They run cooler.

Having said that, my Lian Li case has 0 fans. Cooled by PSU exhausting and vents. System never overheats. Your case looks like plenty of room for larger fans up top, but difficult to enlarge the fronts. You can get a template for the fans from MNPC, as well as the grills. Heck, looks like you got room on top for two 120mm fans! (if you dont mind a negative pressure case). and dont forget, your PSU is up there as well helping to extract hot air.

PS: Good looking case!

Excellent points.

Yes, the Llano looks promising, as does the soon-to-be-released BD. Can't go Intel, as I'm still angry about a nasty 386 DX math coprocesser experience (boy, do I hold a grudge!). I figure, though, the longer I take getting this old school case fixed up, the better my upgrade options will be. I'm tempted to paint it, too... but that would likely be a mistake!

I'm concerned about heat, as I do hours of video and audio editing - really stressing the chips and hard drives. I also plan on overclocking to the hilt, like 4 ghz+ I don't game much, so the quiet is really crucial.

I don't mind negative pressure, as I like to get in the case every few weeks to check the caps, etc.

Hmmm... what if I took out the back fan, cut a 120 (140?) exhaust hole in the top, and ran a duct from the 80mm back hole feed air directly on the processor? That'd keep it cool as a cucumber, methinks.

PS. I just checked out some pics of your case model, and may I say: Nice! It's the cutest thing since R2-D2.

 

[mannyman]

That older Coolermaster case looks very similiar to the PC-6X. Good to know that cooling with 80mm wouldn't be too bad. It's the fan noise that worries me, though.

There are quiet 80mm fans, I just ran 3 2000rpm fans at 5 volts in mine. it was quiet enough i didn't hear it 3 feet away.

 

[wwischerath]

PS. I just checked out some pics of your case model, and may I say: Nice! It's the cutest thing since R2-D2.

beep boop fraaaz (thank you)

 

[Jherek]

There are quiet 80mm fans, I just ran 3 2000rpm fans at 5 volts in mine. it was quiet enough i didn't hear it 3 feet away.

Good point. Yes. A fan controller might be an answer.

 

[xDezor]

Glad to see another PC-65/PC-60 owner here. Don't be stupid, don't paint it. If you want a rice-rocket, go buy a $30 coolermaster. But now that I've got that off my chest...

I've thought a lot about airflow in this case. I've been using it since 2004, and the rig I'm typing from is housed in it. Here's what I've learned:

As mentioned earlier, the PSU fan is one of your greatest assets. If you don't have a PSU with a 120mm or 140mm fan, you should buy one. That is an essential part of your rear exhaust. I've been running a scythe ninja CPU heatsink with 1 800rpm 120mm fan pointed up towards the PSU. Air goes threw the fan --> heatsink --> PSU fan without any problems.

As for the rear 80mm fan, there are a couple of things you can do. I cut out the 80mm hole completely, allowing more airflow to pass threw while also making the fan run quieter. Additionally, another 80mm fan can be installed below it, letting twice as much airflow escape out the back. Vooodo PC's did that on their lian-li cases..

However, I think the best thing to do would be to install a 120mm fan. I just measured, and the space between the I/O bracket and the outside part of the case support "beam" is exactly 120-121mm. Now, I haven't heard of anyone else attempting this before, but you can theoretically cut away half of the support beam to install your 120mm fan. If you look at it, you will notice that the beam is actually comprised of two parts - you only need to cut one, the other one will remain intact and riveted to the rest of the case. Of course, the motherboard tray won't be "removable" with the fan installed, but this is a tradeoff you will have to make. This would be an ideal solution methinks, and I'm very tempted to try it myself.

Actually... I think I will try that the next time I take apart my case. Thanks for the idea Jherek.

 

[Procyon12]

2 80mm fans will be quieter for the same airflow as 1 120MM. the reason is that 2 15 Db fans wont be 30 Db, more like 17-20, and they will probably match the airflow of a 25db 120mm fan.
if you you dont care about DBA but want a "calm" sound look into higher quality fans.

noctua fans have a more calm, steady, and low pitched sound. id take an 80MM noctua at a higher RPM than a lower RPM something else (unless i wanted TOTALLY SILENT)
noctua designs their fans around pleasing sound at medium-high rpms rather than silent at low rpms.

its kind of weird but i have an enermax tb silence and at 500RPM its totally silent but noctua P12 is NOT. but at medium high RPMS, the noctua sound is much more pleaseant than the Enermax.

i would only spend all this time on getting 120mms in there if you didnt care about sound at all or wanted very silent. for medium silent, just leave it at 80mm noctuas.

 

[Jherek]

2 80mm fans will be quieter for the same airflow as 1 120MM. the reason is that 2 15 Db fans wont be 30 Db, more like 17-20, and they will probably match the airflow of a 25db 120mm fan.
if you you dont care about DBA but want a "calm" sound look into higher quality fans.

noctua fans have a more calm, steady, and low pitched sound. id take an 80MM noctua at a higher RPM than a lower RPM something else (unless i wanted TOTALLY SILENT)
noctua designs their fans around pleasing sound at medium-high rpms rather than silent at low rpms.

its kind of weird but i have an enermax tb silence and at 500RPM its totally silent but noctua P12 is NOT. but at medium high RPMS, the noctua sound is much more pleaseant than the Enermax.

i would only spend all this time on getting 120mms in there if you didnt care about sound at all or wanted very silent. for medium silent, just leave it at 80mm noctuas.

This is a good point, however, cutting a second 80mm hole below the first on this case, is considered a difficult undertaking to make it look right. Perhaps harder than doing a 120. Also, the cost of those fans is a bit high. Still, an excellent thought.

 

[xDezor]

I'm sorry, but they won't match the airflow of a 120mm fan. Do you know how much more surface area a 120mm fan has than two 80mm fans?

And who's to say we aren't installing 120mm noctua fans. I myself use extremely quiet Scythe S-Flex fans at 800rpm. I've got two extremely quiet 80mm enermax fans up front, but they hardly push any air, much less than a single 120mm fan.

Installing a 120mm rear fan makes more sense. it allows you to use any modern day aftermarket CPU heatsink/fan combo. You're gonna be hard pressed to exhaust a 120mm HSF out of two 80mm fan ports without building some sort of baffle.

 

[Procyon12]

I'm sorry, but they won't match the airflow of a 120mm fan. Do you know how much more surface area a 120mm fan has than two 80mm fans?

12%. you make it sound likes its huge.
they also vibrate less and their motors are quieter.

im trying to offer a solution that reduces the need to spend effort modding the case. if we are gonna mod, how about 2 92mm fans. that 16% more than 1 120mm, and the mod will be done with a hole saw in minutes since theres plenty of space.

And who's to say we aren't installing 120mm noctua fans. I myself use extremely quiet Scythe S-Flex fans at 800rpm. I've got two extremely quiet 80mm enermax fans up front, but they hardly push any air, much less than a single 120mm fan.

thats why i said if hes going for MEDIUM quiet.

 

[Procyon12]

Also, the cost of those fans is a bit high. Still, an excellent thought.

i dont know, i guess im the kind of guy who values my tim, i dont think there are enough in the day.

although i love modding and spending time fiddling with my pc, cutting fan holes is not my idea of fun, when a almost comprabl solution could be reached for not too much money. to me, the extra $10 for a noctua fan is worth the time.

 

[Jherek]

Glad to see another PC-65/PC-60 owner here. Don't be stupid, don't paint it. If you want a rice-rocket, go buy a $30 coolermaster. But now that I've got that off my chest...

I've thought a lot about airflow in this case. I've been using it since 2004, and the rig I'm typing from is housed in it. Here's what I've learned:

As mentioned earlier, the PSU fan is one of your greatest assets. If you don't have a PSU with a 120mm or 140mm fan, you should buy one. That is an essential part of your rear exhaust. I've been running a scythe ninja CPU heatsink with 1 800rpm 120mm fan pointed horizontally. Air goes threw the fan --> heatsink --> PSU fan without any problems.

As for the rear 80mm fan, there are a couple of things you can do. I cut out the 80mm hole completely, allowing more airflow to pass threw while also making the fan run quieter. Additionally, another 80mm fan can be installed below it, letting twice as much airflow escape out the back. Vooodo PC's did that on their lian-li cases..

However, I think the best thing to do would be to install a 120mm fan. I just measured, and the space between the I/O bracket and the outside part of the case support "beam" is exactly 120-121mm. Now, I haven't heard of anyone else attempting this before, but you can theoretically cut away half of the support beam to install your 120mm fan. If you look at it, you will notice that the beam is actually comprised of two parts - you only need to cut one, the other one will remain intact and riveted to the rest of the case. Of course, the motherboard tray won't be "removable" with the fan installed, but this is a tradeoff you will have to make. This would be an ideal solution methinks, and I'm very tempted to try it myself.

Actually... I think I will try that the next time I take apart my case. Thanks for the idea Jherek.

Excellent, Procyon! I just took a closer look at how the vertical "support beam" is formed, and how it is attached. It is held on by a mere two rivots... one near the top and one near the bottom of the case. (There are two other rivots, near the center, that hold the "locking clips" for the motherboard tray, but are not attached to the beam.) Methinks, once the beam has been removed by drilling out the two rivots, it should be a simple matter to cut away the offending portion, sand it smooth, and reattach it with either rivots or small flathead screws. The portion of the beam that is against the case wall itself, would not need to be cut through.

If I try this mod, I will make pics and post the process.

Some case strength might be sacrificed, but if the measurements are precise, the body of the 120mm case fan should fill the gap, making the case as strong as before. Even if the measurement is off a tad, the area could be packed - this might even be desireable to lesson vibration. Of course, it is possible that the beam is superfluous in terms of making the case rigid - but I doubt this very much.

Also, the motherboard tray would still be "removeable" - it would just require that the 120mm fan be taken out first.

An easier undertaking would be remove the rear 80mm fan, cut out the grill and attach a 120 to 80mm adapter, and mount a 120mm fan outside of the case. I doubt the airflow would be as good as an interior mount and the fan would almost certainly be louder, but that mod would be child's play.

Great ideas, all!

 

[xDezor]

12%. you make it sound likes its huge.
they also vibrate less and their motors are quieter.

im trying to offer a solution that reduces the need to spend effort modding the case. if we are gonna mod, how about 2 92mm fans. that 16% more than 1 120mm, and the mod will be done with a hole saw in minutes since theres plenty of space.



thats why i said if hes going for MEDIUM quiet.

12%... is a lot? They don't vibrate less, and their motors are not quieter. The lower RPM of a comparable 120mm fan makes it much quieter. The sound generated from the fan is also a lower frequency, much less annoying.

Installing two 80mm fans does not reduce the need to mod the case. The case only has 1 80mm fan. You're going to have to mod regardless. Whether you want to waste it on an inefficient - and harder - mod is up to you. You can't fit two 92mm fans. There is only room for two 80mm fans vertically.

 

[xDezor]

Excellent, Procyon! I just took a closer look at how the vertical "support beam" is formed, and how it is attached. It is held on by a mere two rivots... one near the top and one near the bottom of the case. (There are two other rivots, near the center, that hold the "locking clips" for the motherboard tray, but are not attached to the beam.) Methinks, once the beam has been removed by drilling out the two rivots, it should be a simple matter to cut away the offending portion, sand it smooth, and reattach it with either rivots or small flathead screws. The portion of the beam that is against the case wall itself, would not need to be cut through.

If I try this mod, I will make pics and post the process.

Some case strength might be sacrificed, but if the measurements are precise, the body of the 120mm case fan should fill the gap, making the case as strong as before. Even if the measurement is off a tad, the area could be packed - this might even be desireable to lesson vibration. Of course, it is possible that the beam is superfluous in terms of making the case rigid - but I doubt this very much.

Also, the motherboard tray would still be "removeable" - it would just require that the 120mm fan be taken out first.

An easier undertaking would be remove the rear 80mm fan, cut out the grill and attach a 120 to 80mm adapter, and mount a 120mm fan outside of the case. I doubt the airflow would be as good as an interior mount and the fan would almost certainly be louder, but that mod would be child's play.

Great ideas, all!

That was my idea.

 

[Jherek]

Sorry... in last post, I meant to reply to Xdezor - got the names mixed up.

 

[3one5]

I currently have 3 pc60usb cases and have built in many others. This is by far my favorite case of all time. I feel the quality of Lian Li Has gone down hill a bit side the good ol days.

The biggest downfall is definitely the fans. I run high quality fans (name is not coming to me) and fan controllers. I did a mod to one years ago and put to 120mm fans in the bottom and 1 up top. This worked very well but the pc had to be on a hard surface.

Man, I love the old school Lian Li cases. Be sure to keep us updated!

 

[wwischerath]

I still think modding the top fan to 120mm makes a lot of sense. You would have to be neater with the cut to make it clean and look nice. Two would be even better. Since I dont have the case in front of me, I cant tell if anything is in the way of that mod. From the pics I can find, it shouldnt be a problem.

And on a different topic, I made my ODD a stealth drive by putting the blank aluminum plate over the drive. Be happy to show you, if interested.

 

[3one5]

I still think modding the top fan to 120mm makes a lot of sense. You would have to be neater with the cut to make it clean and look nice. Two would be even better. Since I dont have the case in front of me, I cant tell if anything is in the way of that mod. From the pics I can find, it shouldnt be a problem.

And on a different topic, I made my ODD a stealth drive by putting the blank aluminum plate over the drive. Be happy to show you, if interested.

I agree on the 120MM up top. There are a bunch of 120mm fan templates around on the net that would make it really easy.

 

[Jherek]

I'll try to post the pics later, probably tomorrow, as I'm beat.

Well, I bit the bullet and removed the internal support beam on my PC-65. It was held on by two, easy to take out, rivets. Even without the support beam, the case still feels surprisingly solid. If need be, however, it should be a simple matter to screw the beam back into place. The beam is 3 sided, in case anyone was curious.

Of course, the support beam can be cut to fit around the 120 fan.

A 120mm fan fits, with about 1 to 2 mills of wiggle room, between the I/O and the exterior support of the case. It's pretty tight, but it does fit. But, I'm becoming concerned about possible vibration issues, as the fan would be nearly up on the windowed panel.

Also, a good half inch or so of the fan's diameter on one side would be restricted by the metal on the rear of the case. I had counted on, of course, cutting a big hole in the motherboard tray backing, but trimming down the vertical support of the case itself - especially after taking out the support beam - is asking for trouble. It looks like, if the 120mm project goes ahead, that there's no easy way to expose the full diameter of the fan.

I'm up in the air about continuing this, and plan to sleep on it.

What do you guys think?

 

[xDezor]

Well, I think you should keep installing it! However, I must say I'm pretty biased as I think it's the best idea I've ever come up with. If you do get a chance, I'd like to see pictures.

I don't think fan vibration will be an issue. It's not as if the fan is directly butted up against the side panel, I'd assume the vibration will be exactly the same as if a stock 80mm fan was installed; the distance from the fan to the support beam doesn't really make a difference (in my mind). Are you worried about the vibration because you removed the extra support?

If I attempt this, I'm going to try and cut out a new motherboard tray back piece (not sure what to call this... The thing that the 80mm fan is attached to). It seems simple enough, there is only 1 bend and that is at 90 degrees. I would probably ignore it and rivet a small piece of L-bend aluminum extrusion instead (like you can find at homedepot).

The reason I want a new back piece is so that I can mount the 120mm fan lower than where the 80mm fan was. I'd like to mount a 120mm radiator or my Corsair H50 which requires extra room on either side of the 120mm fan vertically. I would also have to make the back piece slightly wider where the windowed sidepanel is. This will allow me enough room to cut out the 120mm fan hole while leaving enough support on either side.

Anywho, if you find some time, I'd like to see a picture of where you got.

 

[Jherek]

Here's the PC-65 case, stripped bare, but uncut.

Here's a close up of the offending beam:

 

[Jherek]

After two rivets drilled out, here's the offending beam in hand:

Here's a closeup of case without support beam:

Another view:

Test fit of insanely powerful 120mm Delta fan (it was lying around - don't worry, I'm not going to add this fan to the final product!):

Another view:

A closeup:

As you can see, the fan BARELY fits. Exposing the full diameter of the fan area on the back of the case will require some more cutting, too. (Would leaving about a half inch of one side of the fan covered by the casing, significantly reduce airflow?)

The "clip" that the motherboard tray is meant to slip in to, will have to go, in any case (ha! a pun!). The other "clip" that the windowed panel slips into can stay, however. Also, to fit two of the fan screws will mean having to trim a bit of the back of the windowed panel, as it would bump into them when putting on the panel - not much, just two little half circles.

The support beam, to be put back in, will have to be cut - making a top and bottom piece that would go above and below the fan. Would this be worthwhile, do you think?

Overall: how "do-able" does the 120mm fan mod look to you guys?

 

[Jherek]

Well, I think you should keep installing it! However, I must say I'm pretty biased as I think it's the best idea I've ever come up with. If you do get a chance, I'd like to see pictures.

I don't think fan vibration will be an issue. It's not as if the fan is directly butted up against the side panel, I'd assume the vibration will be exactly the same as if a stock 80mm fan was installed; the distance from the fan to the support beam doesn't really make a difference (in my mind). Are you worried about the vibration because you removed the extra support?

If I attempt this, I'm going to try and cut out a new motherboard tray back piece (not sure what to call this... The thing that the 80mm fan is attached to). It seems simple enough, there is only 1 bend and that is at 90 degrees. I would probably ignore it and rivet a small piece of L-bend aluminum extrusion instead (like you can find at homedepot).

The reason I want a new back piece is so that I can mount the 120mm fan lower than where the 80mm fan was. I'd like to mount a 120mm radiator or my Corsair H50 which requires extra room on either side of the 120mm fan vertically. I would also have to make the back piece slightly wider where the windowed sidepanel is. This will allow me enough room to cut out the 120mm fan hole while leaving enough support on either side.

Anywho, if you find some time, I'd like to see a picture of where you got.
__________________
It's been a while, for a while... been messin' with computers since '04... but don't get me wrong, I'm still quite "versed".

Well, this is reassuring on the vibration issue. In any case, it ought to be possible to put a bit of rubber or foam in to block vibration. I was counting on using thin rubber washers at the screw points, in any event.

By the by, why make a whole new backing? Why not simply cut the 120 fan vent lower down, and cover over the area of the original vent hole with some alluminum flashing?

 

[Jherek]

Originally Posted by wwischerath View Post
I still think modding the top fan to 120mm makes a lot of sense. You would have to be neater with the cut to make it clean and look nice. Two would be even better. Since I dont have the case in front of me, I cant tell if anything is in the way of that mod. From the pics I can find, it shouldnt be a problem.

And on a different topic, I made my ODD a stealth drive by putting the blank aluminum plate over the drive. Be happy to show you, if interested."

I agree on the 120MM up top. There are a bunch of 120mm fan templates around on the net that would make it really easy.
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It may still come to that. Why not do both? On a topic raised, does not "stealthing" the bezels of the ODs make the eject button inaccessable?