Unofficial 2405FPW Thread (Now that its been announced)

wickedwings said:
Could someone please tell me how well it can upconvert or how well scaling w/ correct AR with input components/dvi of signals like 720p and 1080i? does 720p upscale looks about 90% as good as 1:1? how about 1080i upscale versus 1:1? Thanks.
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What the hell kind of display do you think you are getting here? :D lol It doesn't upconvert anything. It will accept any of the formats and unlike most TV's you can set things like scaling and image fitting on the 720p and 1080i modes. If you feed it a 480i/p, 720p, or 1080i image you can either view it 1:1 (actual pixels), view it enlarged to aspect (top and bottom fill sides get the black bars, nothing gets distorted), Stretch (fills screen, distorts the image slightly). If you choose 1:1 for 1080i you get slim black bars on the top and bottom of the image. I prefer that mode.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
OK noob question. When I change vid modes in CS do I want 16:9 or 16:10 ratio?
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16:10 mate :)

1920 pixels divided by 1200 pixels = 1.6 (i.e. same ratio as 16/10)
 
tesfaye said:
What the hell kind of display do you think you are getting here? :D lol It doesn't upconvert anything. It will accept any of the formats and unlike most TV's you can set things like scaling and image fitting on the 720p and 1080i modes. If you feed it a 480i/p, 720p, or 1080i image you can either view it 1:1 (actual pixels), view it enlarged to aspect (top and bottom fill sides get the black bars, nothing gets distorted), Stretch (fills screen, distorts the image slightly). If you choose 1:1 for 1080i you get slim black bars on the top and bottom of the image. I prefer that mode.
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how is the image quality of 720p upscale w/ correct aspect ratio? is it about 90% quality compared to 1:1? What about 1080i 1:1 vs upscale w/ correct AR? I heard that newer HD TVs 1080p can upconvert or upscale with great results...similar to a 480i dvd to 480p. I'd like to understand more w/ upconvert/and or upscale with similar devices such as hd dvd player which upconvert...lcd of notebook upscales very bad...

thanks so much
 
JonDo[H] said:
16:10 mate :)

1920 pixels divided by 1200 pixels = 1.6 (i.e. same ratio as 16/10)
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Thanks. BTW, I just played some CS:S and it performs just fine. And it looks awesome on this gigantic screen! :D

I was having problems w/PowerDVD stretching widescreen movies to fit but a reboot fixed that. Hell if I know why. I hadn't rebooted since I changed the monitor driver earlier today so that must've been it. Wierd.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Thanks. BTW, I just played some CS:S and it performs just fine. And it looks awesome on this gigantic screen! :D

I was having problems w/PowerDVD stretching widescreen movies to fit but a reboot fixed that. Hell if I know why. I hadn't rebooted since I changed the monitor driver earlier today so that must've been it. Wierd.
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How does the gaming compare to that on your old 2005? I'm assuming the size makes it that extra bit more immersive :)

Could you post some shots of a CS session on your new screen?
 
Yeah it's very immersive. Even moreso than the 2005FPW.

As far as screenshots go I'll see what I can do. I've taken a few w/5th Element playing on the screen (for DVD examples) and now I've gotta get a few of CS:S or HL2.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Yeah it's very immersive. Even moreso than the 2005FPW.

As far as screenshots go I'll see what I can do. I've taken a few w/5th Element playing on the screen (for DVD examples) and now I've gotta get a few of CS:S or HL2.
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The more the merrier mate! :D

Also - sorry if you've answered this already - have you tried out interpolating yet? How much worse does say 1680x1050 stretched to fill the screen look?
 
utsava said:
Nice. We need more of these...
Any impressions of HD on this thing? On par with LCD TV's of similar size?

Im really interested in non-native scale PC gaming.... I dunno if I can push 1920x1200 HL2 at playable rates.
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HL2 runs WELL on my system. No problems there. This display is on par with most LCD tv's that I have seen. Since there are no 27" or under displays that do 1080i at the moment I can't give a fair comparison. HD modes scaled or not look great on this display. It's wonderful to view 1080i on an LCD in it's native form. The colors look great and it's not even calibrated yet. So out of the box its pretty well set up.
 
tesfaye said:
HL2 runs WELL on my system. No problems there. This display is on par with most LCD tv's that I have seen. Since there are no 27" or under displays that do 1080i at the moment I can't give a fair comparison. HD modes scaled or not look great on this display. It's wonderful to view 1080i on an LCD in it's native form. The colors look great and it's not even calibrated yet. So out of the box its pretty well set up.
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I don't suppose you've got a dvd player and any PAL (region 2) DVDs? I read on another forum an early adopter couldn't get PAL to output via component on the screen, but I couldn't work out whether it was perhaps his player. It could be a pain in the arse for me as I live in the UK :p

EDIT: Tesfaye, what is your system btw?
 
tesfaye said:
HL2 runs WELL on my system. No problems there. This display is on par with most LCD tv's that I have seen. Since there are no 27" or under displays that do 1080i at the moment I can't give a fair comparison. HD modes scaled or not look great on this display. It's wonderful to view 1080i on an LCD in it's native form. The colors look great and it's not even calibrated yet. So out of the box its pretty well set up.
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Tesfaye,

I have simillar specs.

What settings are you running HL2 at? (both ingame and your AA & AF from ATI Control Panel)
What are your frames like at 1920x1200?
Are you playing HL2 online or single player?

Thanks,
Dim-Ize
 
tesfaye said:
HL2 runs WELL on my system. No problems there. This display is on par with most LCD tv's that I have seen. Since there are no 27" or under displays that do 1080i at the moment I can't give a fair comparison. HD modes scaled or not look great on this display. It's wonderful to view 1080i on an LCD in it's native form. The colors look great and it's not even calibrated yet. So out of the box its pretty well set up.
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Worked out how to find your specs... How about running a Counterstrike Source Stress Test in the native res, and specifying what options you're using? That might give some indication for the sort of hit using 1920x1200 takes.
 
don't suppose you've got a dvd player and any PAL (region 2) DVDs? I read on another forum an early adopter couldn't get PAL to output via component on the screen, but I couldn't work out whether it was perhaps his player. It could be a pain in the arse for me as I live in the UK
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I'm from australia and I too am interested on if can handle pal hd/component signals, from the news i've seen it seems to handle all 60hz hd formats fine, it's just the 50hz stuff we don't know enought about yet.
 
JonDo[H] said:
I don't suppose you've got a dvd player and any PAL (region 2) DVDs? I read on another forum an early adopter couldn't get PAL to output via component on the screen, but I couldn't work out whether it was perhaps his player. It could be a pain in the arse for me as I live in the UK :p

EDIT: Tesfaye, what is your system btw?
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Its in the sig. *****NTSC. If you were referring to the video system. I don't have any PAL discs. Sorry. However I can happily report that I found 0 dead pixels, 0 stuck pixels, no ghosting, and no backlighting issues. Just moderate amounts of heat comming off the back of this thing.
 
Haven't tried interpolating yet. Also, the 2005FPW seems to have nicer dark blues. I don't know what it is but I can't seem to get this 2405FPW to stop looking kind of washed out. I'll have to keep playing with the settings and if someone here gets theirs tuned it'd be nice if they would post them.
 
Make that two dead pixels. One of them just happened to look like a speck of dust - it's somehow kind of a gray color and not red/green/blue.

If it doesn't go away, which it probably won't, I think I'm going to ask for an exchange.

Wunderbar. :(
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Haven't tried interpolating yet. Also, the 2005FPW seems to have nicer dark blues. I don't know what it is but I can't seem to get this 2405FPW to stop looking kind of washed out. I'll have to keep playing with the settings and if someone here gets theirs tuned it'd be nice if they would post them.
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Could the color difference come from being a PVA panel?
 
I found a dead pixel with 100% black on the screen, take a look at my 2405fpw photo page (do me a favor and click the google advertising so I can buy myself another one of these asap) ; )

I have no issue with this dead pixel, I can't see it with anything other than 100% black, so it is pretty much a non issue for me.

Also look at the photos page for a shot of the screen with 100% for backlighting issues, 1 second at f/7.1 on a Canon 10D, it's about as consistant as it gets.
 
Cumulus said:
I found a dead pixel with 100% black on the screen, take a look at my 2405fpw photo page (do me a favor and click the google advertising so I can buy myself another one of these asap) ; )

I have no issue with this dead pixel, I can't see it with anything other than 100% black, so it is pretty much a non issue for me.

Also look at the photos page for a shot of the screen with 100% for backlighting issues, 1 second at f/7.1 on a Canon 10D, it's about as consistant as it gets.
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So hows the TV quality on that monitor ??
When I had the 2005, I connected a DVD directly to it via S-cable and the pictures look like its been blown up.
I realized that the picture quality wouldn't be as good a LCD TV so I returned it.

I wonder if the 2405 is gonna be like that also.
 
HOW is the brightness? is it very very bright like the 2005? or did they tone it down a bit? very important question.
 
Excellent question. I have a better question: Do you guys think 500 cd/m2 is not necessary and it is too bright. As well, do you think contrast ratio of 1000:1 is necessary?
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Haven't tried interpolating yet. Also, the 2005FPW seems to have nicer dark blues. I don't know what it is but I can't seem to get this 2405FPW to stop looking kind of washed out. I'll have to keep playing with the settings and if someone here gets theirs tuned it'd be nice if they would post them.
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Hmmm, I'm really concerned about this "washed out" look. Has anybody else got this problem? :confused:
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Haven't tried interpolating yet. Also, the 2005FPW seems to have nicer dark blues. I don't know what it is but I can't seem to get this 2405FPW to stop looking kind of washed out. I'll have to keep playing with the settings and if someone here gets theirs tuned it'd be nice if they would post them.
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Have you tried lowering the gamma using your video card to see if that lessons the washed out appearance?
 
TimothyB said:
Have you tried lowering the gamma using your video card to see if that lessons the washed out appearance?
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I can see what it might annoy though, as the 2005FPW comes set up just about perfectly out of the box. There shouldn't really be any need to fiddle with his software settings :p
 
TimothyB said:
Have you tried lowering the gamma using your video card to see if that lessons the washed out appearance?
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Not yet. I found a gamma test pattern on the internet and tried using the RGB controls on the monitor to adjust with it.

Here it is:
http://members.aol.com/xfire905/gammatst.htm

Unfortunately, this didn't work well for me. In order to get the patterns looking properly I ended up having to increase each value very high which left me with an extremely washed out overdone look. I have the same problem with the displaymate program's gamma test patterns and every LCD I've ever used. I'm obviously missing something there - don't know if those patterns are meant to work w/LCDs.

In any case I'll try to use the software settings with it just for the sake of experimentation and see if the ATI driver behaves any differently.

And w/regard to the dead pixels. The one that I have which annoys me is a gray dot in the upper left corner but it shows up against a white background and now that I know it's there it drives me nuts. At first I thought it was a piece of dust but upon closer examination it's not. I'm seriously considering an exchange.

Back to the gamma problem... I'm no expert here so perhaps this display's different contrast/brightness means what I'm seeing is normal for it. I don't know yet. But if that's the case to me the colors are richer on the 2005FPW.

Back to experimenting...
 
Cheers Riptide. No pressure on you or anything, but I'm going to hold off on buying this beast until the colour can be sorted ;) Definitely don't want to be taking a step down from my current setup when paying that price!
 
>Riptide, something I've thought of. If I remember rightly, earlier on you were saying you weren't big on calibrating colours on monitors. Neither am I. All my tfts have stayed at their default settings, or at least with R=G=B. With this in mind, could you set your dell back to sRGB (seem to remember that was around 50,50,50) and if I'm right about the numbers also try it with them set to 50,50,50. How does that look? Could you capture a photo of say your 2405fpw displaying the same pic as your 2005fpw to give us an idea?

Also, how about in games? Is the colour difference noticeable. If you've got it, WoW should be a good test, as it relies heavily on primary colours.

Cheers :)
 
Ah well maybe we should wait and see what others have to say. I tried that test pattern w/the driver settings and it always ends up forcing me to increase the values to 1.85-2.08 each time - resulting an overbright washed out image. So basically same results as w/the RGB settings on the display itself.

The difference is subtle but to me the colors are richer on that 2005FPW. Both displays are overbright out of the box IMO but I think the end results are better in this regard with the 2005/2001.

Interestingly, I had a friend over here last night who also immediately commented that it looked to bright and washed out. Keep in mind though that he likes to run his displays darker than I do so take that with a grain of salt.

This gray dot in the upper left corner pisses me off more than anything. It wasn't there the first few hours the display was on, but I've had that happen with new LCDs before. The thing that bugs me about it is that it shows up on a white background and every time I open My Computer it's going to be there. But then you know how it is w/exchanges... Judging by the 2005FPW thread I run a significant risk of trading down and not up if you know what I mean.
 
Yeah I understand - tough decision that. You're lucky to have the option tbh: in the UK Dell don't offer such a good replacement system - we have to put up anything up to 3 dead pixels or more :p We really do get shafted over here and it becomes luck of the draw.

What's bugging me most about the 2005fpw (and was the same with my 2001 tbh) is the non-uniform backlight. To finally get a screen with one that looks as good as it does will be something of a revelation. I hate to play in the dark atm just because it shows up any sign of leaking! So I know that would become a thing of the past...

Are you saying that the 2405 looks washed out even at default sRGB settings, or only when calibrated using the online tool you've linkified? It could be excessive R,G,B amounts that's ruining it. I know that the 2005 looked slightly washed out compared to my 2001, but it was just a case of lowering the brightness, nothing more.
 
JonDo[H] said:
With this in mind, could you set your dell back to sRGB (seem to remember that was around 50,50,50) and if I'm right about the numbers also try it with them set to 50,50,50. How does that look?
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None of the presets seem to fix this issue for me. I tried adjusting the gamma both a 50/50/50 and sRGB. It always ends up forcing me to increase values with those test patterns - which makes it look like uttery crap. Completely washed out.

I lower my brightness down from default 50-20 btw. One way or another that doesn't seem to effect the results of my gamma tests/adjustments though.
Could you capture a photo of say your 2405fpw displaying the same pic as your 2005fpw to give us an idea?
Also, how about in games? Is the colour difference noticeable. If you've got it, WoW should be a good test, as it relies heavily on primary colours.
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I don't think a photo will cut it here. The difference is pretty subtle but it is noticeable to the naked eye. Something that has to be seen first hand to be appreciated. I honestly think, without knowing any better, that it's just a difference between these two displays (2005/2405) and may not be correctable. As far as in games, I've only done some testing w/HL2 and CS:S. HL2 I can't tell a difference, but in de_dust which is already a bright map it seems to be a little more discernable.

To be completely honest this difference in the color reproduction isn't huge enough that I'd return it over it. No, that gray dot is much more upsetting to me.
 
JonDo[H] said:
Are you saying that the 2405 looks washed out even at default sRGB settings, or only when calibrated using the online tool you've linkified? It could be excessive R,G,B amounts that's ruining it. I know that the 2005 looked slightly washed out compared to my 2001, but it was just a case of lowering the brightness, nothing more.
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To answer your question, both, but much much worse once you calibrate it w/the online tool.

I tried lowering the sRGB settings to 35/40/35. To me it doesn't really look much better color-wise, just seems dimmer.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
As far as in games, I've only done some testing w/HL2 and CS:S. HL2 I can't tell a difference, but in de_dust which is already a bright map it seems to be a little more discernable.
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Does it end up looking too bright? i.e. like you've upped the gamma?

Riptide_NVN said:
To be completely honest this difference in the color reproduction isn't huge enough that I'd return it over it. No, that gray dot is much more upsetting to me.
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Like you say, it's probably the normal colour settings for that screen, so a replacement wouldn't help. I think out of the dozen or more mini-reviews I've read on several forums, only two users have mentioned a dead pixel. With this being Dell's best screen, I don't see why you shouldn't try and get it replaced, as the chance of their being a dead pixel at all must be slim :)
 
Dim-Ize said:
Tesfaye,

I have simillar specs.

What settings are you running HL2 at? (both ingame and your AA & AF from ATI Control Panel)
What are your frames like at 1920x1200?
Are you playing HL2 online or single player?

Thanks,
Dim-Ize
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I haven't tried HL2 Multiplayer, I have been playing the single player missions and I have not experienced any stuttering or lag. It's very smooth. I have my AA set to 2x and AF set to 8x in ATI control panel. I did not turn on the frame counter for HL2 but under CS:S I get over 138FPS at 1900x1200.

Scaling is done very well so if 1900x1200 doesnt work for you then use the next lowest 16:10 setting and it will scale well on the panel. Then you may even get to enable higher AA settings.
 
JonDo[H] said:
Does it end up looking too bright? i.e. like you've upped the gamma?
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Yes. It just looks a tad on the overbright side in that map.
Like you say, it's probably the normal colour settings for that screen, so a replacement wouldn't help. I think out of the dozen or more mini-reviews I've read on several forums, only two users have mentioned a dead pixel. With this being Dell's best screen, I don't see why you shouldn't try and get it replaced, as the chance of their being a dead pixel at all must be slim :)
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I might try to call them this morning and see about it. I am a little worried though - stocks aren't on the heavy side w/these things so there's a chance I might have to wait quite some time. We'll see I guess. :(
 
Riptide_NVN said:
To answer your question, both, but much much worse once you calibrate it w/the online tool.

I tried lowering the sRGB settings to 35/40/35. To me it doesn't really look much better color-wise, just seems dimmer.
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I've noticed on the 2005 if I up the RGB settings from 50/50/50 too much the image starts to get to bright and heads for white (obviously). The opposite happens if I reduce them. You'd think that a normal monitor would look best at 50/50/50 (with a slight variance on 1/2 colours if there was a bias in tone), but I remember my 2001FP was best and came calibrated at 100/100/100 as default (I couldn't get any brighter).

In a Japanese blog, they set the brightness of the 2405 to 25% to match the 2001's 100%. The shots they took with their camera side-by-side didn't look that different tbh. In case you haven't got this link rip, here's a quality website for widescreen backgrounds:-

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/

As I love all things colourful, I find the top picture ("Board") on the following page to be excellent for my desktop background. If you try it out on your 2405/2005, it might help really show up how good or bad the colour saturation is on them. For instance, when I upgraded from a 2001 to a 2005, I could definitely see the benefits of a higher contrast ration on the latter with this pic.

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?page=2

EDIT: If you decide to try it, let me know what you think! :)
 
>tesfaye, what do you think of the colouring? Can things look washed out?

I've got a similar system to you I think: 3800+, 1gb ram, X800XT PE (stock) and I get around 98FPS in 1680x1050 4xAA/8xAF on the source stress test. Any chance you could run it once in that setting so I get an idea how different my 1920 results will be? Don't worry about it if you're too busy! :p
 
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