unhappy_mage, a recommendation.

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
Mister mage, I know you have your own distro of Linux which acts as a router and auto-installs a small linux installation into the folders' memory, so you can save yourself harddrives. It also stores the folding data on the main system itself, so you don't lose ur work in the event of an outage...I'd love to use it, but my need for wireless keeps me from being able to do this.

My question is, would this be possible to port into DD-WRT somehow? It's an opensource linux distro for Linksys routers that turns it into a fully functional server (heck, I can even SSH into my router :D). You could use Samba to mount shares off of a seperate machine to store the folding work, and be able to run a harddrive-less farm and still have wireless.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/

Not sure if it's possible, but it's at least worth lookin' into. At least, whenever you come back that is. :p

Full Folding Ahead!

 

Duster

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
5,837
mage is on vaction :D

He will be back later tonight.
Please leave your name and PM after the tone and he might get back to ya

 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
Are you asking to run FAH on a WRT? It uses a MIPS CPU and there is no client from stanford for that proc. Besides, it's only 200MHz and it would almost certainly overheat without modding the router, if a client existed.

They are great routers, but don't expect to ever see them folding. Besides, there is only 16MB of ram onboard, unless you have a WRT54GS, which has 32MB(or a WRT54G v2.2 like I have that has 32MB :)). DD-WRT is a great firmware hack for them though, and I've got it on both of my 54G's.
 

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
No, not to fold on it, but for it to act as the main server to install the F@H files for your network. Have you read into UM's distro?

Full Folding Ahead!

 

OSUguy98

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2006
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
3,959
is there even enough memory on a WRT to even think about it?


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
OSUguy98 said:
is there even enough memory on a WRT to even think about it?


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

Not sure, but considering you can mount samba shares, disk space isn't a problem. I say, where there's a will, there's a way. And if you're going to make a machine a router to setup the folding network, why not just start with a router with linux anyway? :p If it's not possible it's not possible, but it's at least worth a shot, since I need my wireless.

Full Folding Ahead!

 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
Duster said:
mage is on vaction :D

He will be back later tonight.
Please leave your name and PM after the tone and he might get back to ya

LOL...

This is kinda actually a freaky good idea....

Take a router, plug in internet on one end (DCHP grab default), out the back attach you boxen and into farm....
 

RavenD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
1,516
If you want to use the fold server and still have wireless, disable DHCP on the router, plug the router into the interface for the farm, but not rather than plugging it in through the internet port, use one of the lan ports on the router. The 4 lan ports function as a switch, with wireless. If DHCP is disabled on the router, but a dhcp server is plugged in to the switch, it'll hand out IPs for both wired and wireless connections.

I'm pretty sure this should work - I have the wireless interface set up the same way for my firewall. Router is being used as wireless switch, dhcp server on the firewall assigns IPs to wireless devices.

 

KodiakStar

/'s by 0
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
12,733
RavenD said:
If you want to use the fold server and still have wireless, disable DHCP on the router, plug the router into the interface for the farm, but not rather than plugging it in through the internet port, use one of the lan ports on the router. The 4 lan ports function as a switch, with wireless. If DHCP is disabled on the router, but a dhcp server is plugged in to the switch, it'll hand out IPs for both wired and wireless connections.

I'm pretty sure this should work - I have the wireless interface set up the same way for my firewall. Router is being used as wireless switch, dhcp server on the firewall assigns IPs to wireless devices.

This would only work if your wireless nic is able to support PXE... (i haven't played with wireless so I don't know what you can/can't do), but that is the main thing needed with Foldserv
 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
KodiakStar said:
This would only work if your wireless nic is able to support PXE... (i haven't played with wireless so I don't know what you can/can't do), but that is the main thing needed with Foldserv
or a floppy drive, or a cd rom to fake the PXE
 

AtomicMoose

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
11,803
marty9876 said:
or a floppy drive, or a cd rom to fake the PXE
wow, you do pay attention.
:p

As Marty pointed out, PXE can be handled in many ways. I am sure that would be the least of the problems.
 

RavenD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
1,516
KodiakStar said:
This would only work if your wireless nic is able to support PXE... (i haven't played with wireless so I don't know what you can/can't do), but that is the main thing needed with Foldserv
Yeah. Obviously. I havent played with wireless beyond setting up a separate interface for it on my firewall, so my mother can access the net from her laptop without having wireless compromise the security of my ever so slowly growing data center.
I'd be interested to find out if there are wireless nics that support PXE.. currently in the process of putting up a small garden with mage's server... as soon as I get a switch. And if I can have it booting comps over wireless, it would be much easier to spread comps around the house for heating.

 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
AtomicMoose said:
wow, you do pay attention.
:p

As Marty pointed out, PXE can be handled in many ways. I am sure that would be the least of the problems.

Hey now, Oldbenwannakillamoose and I helped out a bunch breaking that thing in the way back machine. Note to all: 32 meg not enough for a node

So here we go- (not even sure a wireless PXE device exists)

Start a wireless fold server Linksys router model v. 1337. This devices casues all other 802.1x devices to reboot, then net boot from this device and start folding. Strap this device to the hood of your car and drive around the city leaving a mega death borg in your wake. Might be against the ELUA thou, might.
 

KodiakStar

/'s by 0
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
12,733
That would only work if you reconfigured it so that the machine saved work on its own hard drive... otherwise you would have to drive around every 15 minutes so it could save the current frame :p
 

AtomicMoose

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
11,803
KodiakStar said:
That would only work if you reconfigured it so that the machine saved work on its own hard drive... otherwise you would have to drive around every 15 minutes so it could save the current frame :p
and with the price of gas these days......
 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
tsuehpsyde said:
No, not to fold on it, but for it to act as the main server to install the F@H files for your network. Have you read into UM's distro?

Full Folding Ahead!

Ahhh, ok. While I have several machines folding, I don't use U_m's distro, since they all have hard drives and an OS on them, so I never looked into it.

I'm thinking memory is the big problem, here is the free ram on mine here at work:

Code:
BusyBox v1.01 (2005.12.23-18:13+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

~ # free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:        14012        10428         3584            0         1328
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:        14012        10428         3584
~ #
Right around 3.5MB free, and all I'm using it for is to route a couple of wifi laptops to our network with DD-WRT. I don't even have samba enabled right now, so I'm not sure how much more memory it would eat up. It may be possible though, just throwing out what there is to work with.
 

KodiakStar

/'s by 0
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
12,733
^ u_m's anit-foldserv uses a hdd for every computer.

foldserv itself only uses one hard drive on the main server..
 

Mohonri

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
5,751
The old (v.1-v.4) of the WRT54G's had 8MB RAM. The new ones (v.5) only have 2MB RAM, and no longer run Linux.

 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
someone log into my fold server and see how much RAM it using... I'm guessing more than 8 mb
 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
Mohonri said:
The old (v.1-v.4) of the WRT54G's had 8MB RAM. The new ones (v.5) only have 2MB RAM, and no longer run Linux.

http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

You're getting mixed up. They have 16MB ram, and 4MB of flash(think of it as disk space). The new v5's have 8/2 and don't run on linux, and are, esentially useless for this idea. You can find old ones for sale though, as I bought a v2 a couple of weeks ago at Fry's.
 

Mohonri

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
5,751
sandmanx said:
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

You're getting mixed up. They have 16MB ram, and 4MB of flash(think of it as disk space). The new v5's have 8/2 and don't run on linux, and are, esentially useless for this idea. You can find old ones for sale though, as I bought a v2 a couple of weeks ago at Fry's.
You're right--I was getting it mixed up. Thanks for the correction.

 

Oldbenwa

Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
740
marty9876 said:
someone log into my fold server and see how much RAM it using... I'm guessing more than 8 mb
Code:
root@0[root]# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:       126676       103140        23536            0        50572
 Swap:       529192         1664       527528
Total:       655868       104804       551064
So ummmmmm, yeah.

Edit: Whose fold-server? :p :D

Oldbenwa
 

Duster

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
5,837
marty9876 said:
someone log into my fold server and see how much RAM it using... I'm guessing more than 8 mb
ok will do

change name to duster

Yeah everything on this end seems to working

I want a cluster But I don't have anythign to do with it

Rember back int he day when they made a cluster out of ps2's to show it could be done waiting for the ps3's

now would be a good time to start a ps2 cluster

 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
Oldbenwa said:
Code:
root@0[root]# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:       126676       103140        23536            0        50572
 Swap:       529192         1664       527528
Total:       655868       104804       551064
So ummmmmm, yeah.

Oldbenwa
Well, it's a different arch, and x86 machines always use a ton of ram on startup, even a minimal linux config. Older distros of linux use a lot less ram though, so don't think it's not possible because of this version, which isn't optimized for minimal ram.
 

Oldbenwa

Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
740
sandmanx said:
Well, it's a different arch, and x86 machines always use a ton of ram on startup, even a minimal linux config. Older distros of linux use a lot less ram though, so don't think it's not possible because of this version, which isn't optimized for minimal ram.
Yeah, that's running a tinker core too. Here's a top:

Code:
Mem: 103320K used, 23356K free, 0K shrd, 50580K buff, 32760K cached
Load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00    (State: S=sleeping R=running, W=waiting)

  PID USER     STATUS   RSS  PPID %CPU %MEM COMMAND
26140 root     R N      10M 26139 99.7  8.4 FahCore_65.exe
 3867 root     R        844  3850  0.1  0.6 top
26138 root     S N      10M   335  0.0  8.4 FahCore_65.exe
26139 root     S N      10M 26138  0.0  8.4 FahCore_65.exe
 3850 root     S       1912  3848  0.0  1.5 bash
 3848 root     S       1912   289  0.0  1.5 sshd
  289 root     S       1296     1  0.0  1.0 sshd
  295 root     S       1196     1  0.0  0.9 mini_httpd
  314 root     S       1040     1  0.0  0.8 smbd
  335 root     S       1012   334  0.0  0.7 fold.exe
  321 root     S       1012     1  0.0  0.7 fold.exe
  334 root     S       1012   321  0.0  0.7 fold.exe
26137 root     S       1012   334  0.0  0.7 fold.exe
  336 root     S       1012   334  0.0  0.7 fold.exe
  322 root     S        984     1  0.0  0.7 bash
  312 root     S        916     1  0.0  0.7 nmbd
  302 root     S        832     1  0.0  0.6 rpc.mountd
  282 root     S        796     1  0.0  0.6 rpc.statd
  304 root     S        788     1  0.0  0.6 rpc.statd
  276 nobody   S        776     1  0.0  0.6 dnsmasq
  278 daemon   S        652     1  0.0  0.5 portmap
  245 root     S        556     1  0.0  0.4 syslogd
  292 root     S        544     1  0.0  0.4 tftpd
  297 root     S        520     1  0.0  0.4 inetd
    1 root     S         52     0  0.0  0.0 init
    6 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 kupdated
  307 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 nfsd
    5 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 bdflush
    4 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 kswapd
    3 root     SWN        0     1  0.0  0.0 ksoftirqd_CPU0
    2 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 keventd
   56 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 khubd
  300 root     SW<        0     1  0.0  0.0 loop0
  308 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 lockd
  310 root     SW         0   308  0.0  0.0 rpciod
Oldbenwa
 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
Here is some relavent(and not so relavant) info from my WRT54G:

Code:
# uname -a
Linux  2.4.32 #431 Sun Dec 25 16:58:55 UTC 2005 mips unknown
Code:
/proc # cat cpuinfo
system type             : Broadcom BCM4712 chip rev 1
processor               : 0
cpu model               : BCM3302 V0.7
BogoMIPS                : 199.47
wait instruction        : no
microsecond timers      : yes
tlb_entries             : 32
extra interrupt vector  : no
hardware watchpoint     : no
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available
Code:
/proc # cat meminfo
        total:    used:    free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
Mem:  14348288 11345920  3002368        0  1482752  4399104
Swap:        0        0        0
MemTotal:        14012 kB
MemFree:          2932 kB
MemShared:           0 kB
Buffers:          1448 kB
Cached:           4296 kB
SwapCached:          0 kB
Active:           3584 kB
Inactive:         2196 kB
HighTotal:           0 kB
HighFree:            0 kB
LowTotal:        14012 kB
LowFree:          2932 kB
SwapTotal:           0 kB
SwapFree:            0 kB
top:
Code:
Mem: 11040K used, 2972K free, 0K shrd, 1448K buff, 4296K cached
Load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00    (State: S=sleeping R=running, W=waiting)

  PID USER     STATUS   RSS  PPID %CPU %MEM COMMAND
11272 root     R        344 11052  2.8  2.4 top
  122 root     S        692     1  0.0  4.9 httpd
    1 root     S        632     0  0.0  4.5 init
11051 root     S        628   206  0.0  4.4 dropbear
  132 root     S        464     1  0.0  3.3 nas
11052 root     S        444 11051  0.0  3.1 sh
 6644 root     S        436     1  0.0  3.1 process_monitor
 6651 root     S        392     1  0.0  2.7 upnp
  206 root     S        344     1  0.0  2.4 dropbear
   82 root     S        320     1  0.0  2.2 resetbutton
11252 root     S        316     1  0.0  2.2 dnsmasq
  137 root     S        300     1  0.0  2.1 wland
11248 root     S        284     1  0.0  2.0 udhcpd
  516 root     S        280     1  0.0  1.9 udhcpc
 6650 root     S        272     1  0.0  1.9 cron
  118 root     S        188     1  0.0  1.3 telnetd
    3 root     SWN        0     1  0.0  0.0 ksoftirqd_CPU0
   10 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 mtdblockd
    2 root     SW         0     1  0.0  0.0 keventd
 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
KodiakStar said:
That would only work if you reconfigured it so that the machine saved work on its own hard drive... otherwise you would have to drive around every 15 minutes so it could save the current frame :p
have systems create RAM disk locally and save there.... :p

I'm sure some stuff could be pull off the fold server, reporting and such things.

Maybe have the first node have a hard drive, off load some stuff there via a share or something

router/fold server
Node 1 w/ hard drive
Node 2-99 PXE only boxen
 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
Some thoughts Oldbenwa had...

Now, anyone want to make sense of this junk?

Begin lazy copy past from email:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1010126

I think it'd be great, but I don't have a WRT to play with.

marty9876 said:
Start a wireless fold server Linksys router model v. 1337. This devices casues all other 802.1x devices to reboot, then net boot from this device and start folding. Strap this device to the hood of your car and drive around the city leaving a mega death borg in your wake. Might be against the ELUA thou, might.
Hahaha.lol Might violate it a *little*.

First node with a hard drive sounds like a good way. Or maybe do something fancy and notice all the hard drives and autodetect which one to use. Or even use a Samba share from your main machine to save everything on, but then when you reboot the whole farm goes down.

Memory issues - like Sandmanx mentioned, it probably won't use as much memory as x86. And fold-server works fine in 24MB on x86. Look at the "top" from oldbenwa: 50580K buff, 32760K cached means 83340K sitting there doing nothing, and 23MB unused leaves 19980K actually used for processes and stuff. If the machine isn't running FAH or samba (it wouldn't need to, just the nodes) then it's under 16MB easily. Maybe put some network-block swap on the first node along with the saves?

Other than that, I'd be willing to buy WRTs, put firmware on them, and sell them to [H]ers for ubereasy setup. Plug in, fold. Firmware would still be available, for those who have the knowhow, but there'd still be a "marty button".

I like that - culture reference (Staples' easy button) and jab at Marty all in one :p

I'll probably think of more things to add later, but post whatever of this makes sense to you.
 

sandmanx

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2001
Messages
9,901
marty9876 said:
Other than that, I'd be willing to buy WRTs, put firmware on them, and sell them to [H]ers for ubereasy setup. Plug in, fold. Firmware would still be available, for those who have the knowhow, but there'd still be a "marty button".

I like that - culture reference (Staples' easy button) and jab at Marty all in one :p
Well, the only trouble might be finding older WRT's. Most places are selling the non-moddable v5 now. You can order the WRT54GL(linux..just the new name for v4 routers) for around $75 I think, but who knows how long they will stay around. We better get this idea rolling soon if it's workable in the ram limit.
 

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
Meh, I already have a flashable router. :cool: And the older versions are easy to find, be it in stores or just from people selling 'em.

Useless info from mine, a v3.

Code:
Using username "root".
root@192.168.1.1's password:
---------------------------------------------------------------

                     DD-WRT build #23
              some code portions OpenWRT and EWRT
       additional thanks to Cesar Gonzales, Toxic,
          Elektik, MBChris, Nbd, TheIndividual
      and all the wonderful supporters of this Project


                   [url]http://www.dd-wrt.com[/url]

---------------------------------------------------------------


BusyBox v1.01 (2005.12.23-18:13+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

~ # uptime
 23:47:31 up 29 days,  8:09, load average: 0.06, 0.01, 0.00
~ # free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:        14012        11808         2204            0         1412
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:        14012        11808         2204
~ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type             : Broadcom BCM4712 chip rev 1
processor               : 0
cpu model               : BCM3302 V0.7
BogoMIPS                : 215.44
wait instruction        : no
microsecond timers      : yes
tlb_entries             : 32
extra interrupt vector  : no
hardware watchpoint     : no
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available
Full Folding Ahead!

 

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
I'm bumping this to see what Mage's thoughts are, since he never replied.

Full Folding Ahead!

 

unhappy_mage

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
11,455
It's a great idea. However, I need a device to play with, and I don't really need to buy one for any reason other than this. I may manage to talk myself into it, though ;) I want to get working on fold-server again, and this would help motivate me to get going on that. If someone wants to donate one or something, that's okay with me and I'll return it when I'm done.

Has anyone done customization of firmware with these things, by coincidence? I'm looking into it a little, and it doesn't look too hard, but I'd like to make sure it's possible before I get too far.

 

tsuehpsyde

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
6,595
I don't have any extras, just the one I'm using which I need (which can be seen here. But I'll keep an eye out for any cheap ones that could be used. Perhaps you should start a donation fund? ;) The administration GUI even has a spot for setting up Samba Shares by default, so that could possibly be tweaked to be the storage point for all of the data.

I really want to setup fold server, but I refuse to go without encrypted wireless, plus the fact that the router would be handling it all in Linux is just cool. :cool:

Full Folding Ahead!

 

marty9876

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
4,905
what you need? check what is running our fold server, I'm not sure of the make/model.

it's at 1.1
 

unhappy_mage

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
11,455
Marty's isn't a WRT. Anyone else? I can trade a linksys non-wireless BEFSR41, so you won't be completely without a network.

 
Top