Ultra 265/285 - stability/reliability ?

[echter]

With all the controversy about the 13th and 14th gen Intel problems and complaints about gaming performance of the Ultras, I've not seen much of a consensus about the reliability of the 245K/265K/285K. If you're considering one, can you be confident they are free of the issues that plagued the 13th & 14th? Are they as stable and reliable as 12th gen?

I ask because just looking at the cpubenchmark chart, the 265K seems like by far the best price/performance value for what I do.

 

[Dan_D]

The 13th and 14th generation CPU's were stable until degradation set in. Even in cases where a system is unstable, it isn't necessarily a problem with the CPU. As far as long term reliability, no one can say for certain that similar problems won't be discovered with the current CPU's. That ultimately goes for all CPUs be it Intel or AMD. If you want the 265K, then go for it.

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

With all the controversy about the 13th and 14th gen Intel problems and complaints about gaming performance of the Ultras, I've not seen much of a consensus about the reliability of the 245K/265K/285K. If you're considering one, can you be confident they are free of the issues that plagued the 13th & 14th? Are they as stable and reliable as 12th gen?

I ask because just looking at the cpubenchmark chart, the 265K seems like by far the best price/performance value for what I do.

There’s no PROVEN reliability issues. But keep in mind people starting talking about 13th gen reliability almost right from release, and it took the release of 14th gen and massive reported failures before Intel stopped denying the problem and started publicly acknowledging the solution. But of course later it was proven they had the data on hand to know there was a major flaw.

All that said I’ve not seen chatter on the ultra series being unreliable. It’s just not popular because it’s weak for gaming and many other things at a comparable or less price. Plus ya know, people aren’t exactly trusting of Intel anymore. They’ve taken a huge hit PR wise. Not to mention the company is doing terrible overall currently and basically imploding and re structuring.

 

[LigTasm]

With all the controversy about the 13th and 14th gen Intel problems and complaints about gaming performance of the Ultras, I've not seen much of a consensus about the reliability of the 245K/265K/285K. If you're considering one, can you be confident they are free of the issues that plagued the 13th & 14th? Are they as stable and reliable as 12th gen?

I ask because just looking at the cpubenchmark chart, the 265K seems like by far the best price/performance value for what I do.

265K has been rock solid for me, to the point where I'm leaning towards selling the 9800X3D setup. I like the board/features better on Z890, and it generally just feels better to use in Windows 11 (always this strange laggy feeling with the AMD build which isn't present on Windows 10).

Gaming performance at 1440p settings that I actually play is within "this really doesn't matter" distance of the 9800X3D too. I haven't tried the newest 0x117 microcode yet though, maybe I'll install it later.

 

[GamerNerves]

265K has been rock solid for me, to the point where I'm leaning towards selling the 9800X3D setup. I like the board/features better on Z890, and it generally just feels better to use in Windows 11 (always this strange laggy feeling with the AMD build which isn't present on Windows 10).

Gaming performance at 1440p settings that I actually play is within "this really doesn't matter" distance of the 9800X3D too. I haven't tried the newest 0x117 microcode yet though, maybe I'll install it later.

Interesting to hear that the Intel CPU feels more responsive in Windows 11. I agree that Windows 11, the file explorer and menus that have animations, feel less responsive than in Windows 10. I have read though, that the animations can be disabled. What could be the reason for an Intel CPU to perform better? I imagined that Windows itself is the culprit. Is AMD lacking in proper support for this OS? I slightly regret moving to Windows 11, this was a long while ago, but the gaming performance gains in 24H2, especially for Ryzen, would be pity to not have.

What comes to the topic, we can only speculate if there are issues, but I have heard that simply tuning voltages down most unstable chips of the 13th and 14th series could be made stable, and if the issue persists, Intel's warranty has taken care of it (though I don't know how it is outside the usual warranty period). It's a question of trust naturally; in the case of a faulty product, do you trust Intel to support you? I personally would not have any concerns regarding their latest gen. I'm honestly more sceptical of AMD's support and ability to offer stability and additions in an acceptable time frame, but that's just me, don't mean to be a downer, and I'm not claiming to have any issues right now regarding my CPU (Ryzen 7600X), but the USB issue on 5000 series is still in fresh memory; it took a while for them to fully sort out, but I'm glad they did. In this forum post someone speculates though, that on startup there still can be issues, and my mouse too occasionally doesn't have power when booting, but it's rare, and on the latest available BIOS this has not reoccured yet. To remind, there was also fTMP related stutter issue, which I personally do not recall experiencing. I write this simply to remind that issues may arise on either side.

EDIT. slight changes
EDIT2. It happens that today the mouse was not powered again after boot...

 

[echter]

Thanks for the replies. In my quick searches I hadn't seen complaints, but just thought maybe some here had heard more. But like has been said, maybe there hasn't been enough usage for it to be evident. The hope is that with all the bad PR, Intel would have made a massive effort to ensure the next gen wasn't afflicted with the same kind of problems.

My original choice was going to be the 13600k + a microcode fix + undervolt and hope for the best, but for about $100 more there's a substantial performance boost (for things like .h264 encoding), power efficiency and maybe peace of mind with the 265K. Tasks will mostly be working with high mp images with photoshop and Dxo deep prime and video encoding. Gaming's not an issue.

 

[Dan_D]

Interesting to hear that the Intel CPU feels more responsive in Windows 11. I agree that Windows 11, the file explorer and menus that have animations, feel less responsive than in Windows 10. I have read though, that the animations can be disabled. What could be the reason for an Intel CPU to perform better? I imagined that Windows itself is the culprit. Is AMD lacking in proper support for this OS? I slightly regret moving to Windows 11, this was a long while ago, but the gaming performance gains in 24H2, especially for Ryzen, would be pity to not have.

What comes to the topic, we can only speculate if there are issues, but I have heard that simply tuning voltages down most unstable chips of the 13th and 14th series could be made stable, and if the issue persists, Intel's warranty has taken care of it (though I don't know how it is outside the usual warranty period). It's a question of trust naturally; in the case of a faulty product, do you trust Intel to support you? I personally would not have any concerns regarding their latest gen. I'm honestly more sceptical of AMD's support and ability to offer stability and additions in an acceptable time frame, but that's just me, don't mean to be a downer, and I'm not claiming to have any issues right now regarding my CPU (Ryzen 7600X), but the USB issues of 5000 series are still in fresh memory; it took a while for them to fully sort out, but I'm glad they did (in this forum post someone speculates that on startup there still can be issues, and my mouse too occasionally doesn't have power when booting, but it's rare, and on the latest available BIOS this has not happened yet). To remind, there was also this fTMP related stutter issue, which I personally do not recall experiencing. I write this simply to remind that issues may arise on either side.

Actually, its part of Intel's platform design. They try to keep internal latency in the platform to a minimum. That being said, (as I've discussed many times before), this difference is usually minute enough that you rarely notice it. Between some generations of Ryzen and Intel CPU's I've had to have the machines next to each other with identical configurations doing identical tasks to really tell the difference. But this responsiveness that Intel systems have over some AMD configurations has been a thing going all the way back to the Pentium IV days.

 

[GamerNerves]

Dan_D Regarding the responsiveness of Intel CPUs, my last one was i5-4570, likely on Windows 7, so it's hard for me to tell if there is any difference, though I built an Intel 12th gen system for my parents running Windows 11. I have used it a couple of times but cannot tell if it's any snappier - perhaps noticing it requires side by side comparison indeed. Most important is that the owner of the product, CPU in this case, deems everything acceptable by his standards, and I would still believe the OS brings the most notable improvements to responsiveness if designed that as a priority. Certainly interesting to hear about this subject nonetheless.

echter I might yet add, that if the fault(s) of the malfunctioning gens was brought up by extensive and prolonged heat, then buying a less consuming part would make sense, since the least consuming models of these gens did not have any issues as far as I know. All the K models were affected regarding to this post, but that is likely tied with BIOSes that boost the chips radically, so whatever you buy, check how the BIOS is set up first and lower or disable any overkill and unnecessary tunings - if you wish to play it safe.

EDIT. wording

 

[LigTasm]

Dan_D Regarding the responsiveness of Intel CPUs, my last one was i5-4570, likely on Windows 7, so it's hard for me to tell if there is any difference, though I built an Intel 12th gen system for my parents running Windows 11. I have used it a couple of times but cannot tell if it's any snappier - perhaps noticing it requires side by side comparison indeed. Most important is that the owner of the product, CPU in this case, deems everything himself acceptable, satisfactory, and I would still believe the OS brings the most notable impovements to responsiveness if designed that at the forefront. Certainly interesting to hear about this subject nonetheless.

echter I might yet add, that if the fault(s) of the malfunctioning gens was brought up by extensive and prolonged heat, then buying a less consuming part would make sense, since the least consuming models of these gens did not have any issues as far as I know. All the K models were affected regarding to this post, but that is likely tied with BIOSes that boost the chips radically, so whatever you buy, check how the BIOS is set up first and lower or disable any overkill and unnecessary tunings.

I am hypersensitive to latency/smoothness issues, and its a huge pain in the ass. It would save me a ton of money if I wasn't, thats for sure. I've never run Windows 11 on AM4 or earlier so I can't comment on those, but AM5 I've used 30 or 40 Windows 11 rigs and I've always been irritated by the strange lags it will have. The worst offender is right clicking, even with a stripped out menu (no Adrenaline, Nvidia App, etc) and the "old" style applied its still sluggish. Everything is just a tiny scooch off and it triggers me reeeeeeeee

15th gen does not fix all of it, but its the best of the worst if that makes any sense. Especially with USB detection, everything else I've used on 11 be it AM5 or older Intel platforms have this ridiculous delay (sometimes) when you plug in a USB drive. It could pop up instantly or it coudl take 6 minutes and 37 seconds for no apparent reason.

 

[GamerNerves]

LigTasm Indeed currently right clicking to open a context menu can be noticeably slow, even unresponsive one might say, but it is most likely fault of the OS as discussed. It can be deliberated if Intel already offered some patch, either via Windows update or within their drivers, to mitigate it, and if AMD is to do so, or are they going to wait Microsoft to carry it for them, perhaps justifiably. It's a pity having to wait long for fixes.

 

[LigTasm]

LigTasm Indeed currently right clicking to open a context menu can be notably slow, even unresponsive one might say, but it is most likely fault of the OS as discussed. It can be deliberated if Intel already offered some patch, either via Windows update or within their drivers, to mitigate it, and if AMD is to do so, or are they going to wait Microsoft to carry it for them, perhaps justifiably. It's a pity having to wait long for fixes.

Anyway, I built the system pretty much on a whim and I've been more impressed with it than I expected to be. For a grand total of $511 for a nice white Asus Strix board, 265K, free 1TB Crucial P3 Plus and 3 free games, I paid more than that for my 9800X3D CPU alone after taxes.

 

[chameleoneel]

The 13th and 14th generation CPU's were stable until degradation set in. Even in cases where a system is unstable, it isn't necessarily a problem with the CPU.

I'm not sure how we are supposed to understand this, in response to:
.

With all the controversy about the 13th and 14th....issues that plagued the 13th & 14th?

 

[uOpt]

How stable do you want it?

Boards that support ECC memory are just coming out. Without that the point is kind of moot.

 

[echter]

...I might yet add, that if the fault(s) of the malfunctioning gens was brought up by extensive and prolonged heat, then buying a less consuming part would make sense, since the least consuming models of these gens did not have any issues as far as I know. All the K models were affected regarding to this post, but that is likely tied with BIOSes that boost the chips radically, so whatever you buy, check how the BIOS is set up first and lower or disable any overkill and unnecessary tunings - if you wish to play it safe.

I definitely do plan to play it safe. Whenever I end up doing the build, I'll need to get some expertise here to be thorough about the BIOS settings, voltage and such because I don't have any real experience with it. It makes sense about less power/heat being a safer route. I saw a chart once that showed the overwhelming majority of problems were with the i9 & i7, not much with the i5.

 

[kamxam]

Unless nothing new comes out in the next year or so, i'll go with the Ultra 285 or hopefully its successor unless something a lot better is out or on the horizon at the time. From what i can see, the Ultra's aren't necessarily bad but aren't that much better than the 14900K atm. Hopefully with updates and/or fixes, it may get better. If it plays everything fine, then i'll be okay with it.
If AMD has something better out or coming out soon at the time, I'll look at that also.

 

[XoR_]

Interesting to hear that the Intel CPU feels more responsive in Windows 11. I agree that Windows 11, the file explorer and menus that have animations, feel less responsive than in Windows 10. I have read though, that the animations can be disabled. What could be the reason for an Intel CPU to perform better? I imagined that Windows itself is the culprit. Is AMD lacking in proper support for this OS? I slightly regret moving to Windows 11, this was a long while ago, but the gaming performance gains in 24H2, especially for Ryzen, would be pity to not have.

With program called ExplorerPatcher you can make Windows 11 look like Windows 10 down to having normal square windows, disable these additional menus and enabling classic taskbar (if you hate new taskbar introduced back in Windows 7 which became the only option in Windows 11). Do recommend!!!1

 

[LigTasm]

With program called ExplorerPatcher you can make Windows 11 look like Windows 10 down to having normal square windows, disable these additional menus and enabling classic taskbar (if you hate new taskbar introduced back in Windows 7 which became the only option in Windows 11). Do recommend!!!1

I'm going to check this out, immediately if not sooner.

 

[chameleoneel]

Unless nothing new comes out in the next year or so, i'll go with the Ultra 285 or hopefully its successor unless something a lot better is out or on the horizon at the time. From what i can see, the Ultra's aren't necessarily bad but aren't that much better than the 14900K atm. Hopefully with updates and/or fixes, it may get better. If it plays everything fine, then i'll be okay with it.
If AMD has something better out or coming out soon at the time, I'll look at that also.

Unless Intel revives their Adamantine L4 cache tile----or simply uses TSMC's stacked cache:

AMD will continue to kick Intel's ass in top end gaming.

Also, Intel does still have a performance per watt problem. Especially in multicore. Which is a bummer. Because multicore is where Intel still consistently competes in performance.

Rumors are that Zen6 will largely use TSMC's most cutting edge node. So, AMD's already power thrifty designs may now be run on the best silicon.

 

[jarablue]

My displays max fps is 120. Would you even notice a difference at 4k gaming from 9800x3d vs a 285k.......at 4k resolution? I just bought a 285k. I game at 4k with a 5070ti. System gets here tomorrow. What do yall think?

 

[Dan_D]

My displays max fps is 120. Would you even notice a difference at 4k gaming from 9800x3d vs a 285k.......at 4k resolution? I just bought a 285k. I game at 4k with a 5070ti. System gets here tomorrow. What do yall think?

The time to ask is before you order the hardware.

 

[jarablue]

The time to ask is before you order the hardware.

Well I can return the system that's no big deal. I just walk into the store and return it. I just didn't know if there would be any noticeable difference at 4K resolution.

 

[arestavo]

Well I can return the system that's no big deal. I just walk into the store and return it. I just didn't know if there would be any noticeable difference at 4K resolution.

Depends on the game. Not that many will be very CPU bound at 4K. Star Citizen is. I'm still slightly CPU bound in certain areas of cities with a 9800X3D overclocked with slightly tuned RAM using a 4090 at 4K.

 

[jarablue]

Oh ok. Thanks!