Ultimate Watercooling System

Okay - in summary without getting into detailed explanations which have been explored in great depth at other forums.

Pumps

Note that I'll only talk about quality pumps. In my mind using budget pumps which may break down early, or are prone to leakage, is just false economy. You'll either need to replace the pump soon, or it will fail potentially causing damage to equipment.

Best performance pump period - Iwaki RD-30 (note - NOT the MD-30)
This is based upon careful assessment of the pump's heat dump into the cooling loop, its efficiency at converting electrical input power into pumping power, and the flow rate range and pressure supplied. Even though it is a 24v pump, running it at 17-18v yields the desired characteristics that makes it the "ultimate" pump.

Best low noise pump and compact pump - Laing DDC (MCP-350, DD-DDC)

Best low noise pump with broad flow rate charactersics - Swiftech MCP-655 (which is a very recently revised near-silent version of the old and noisy Laing D4).

Most efficient moderate pumpwith moderate noise - MCP600/AquaExtreme DC12-50Z

For lower flow systems where the expected flow rate is 5LPM or less, coupled with smaller tubing sizes, the DDC is hard to best. For moderate-high flow rate systems it's a close tie between the MCP600 and the MCP655. The 600 is more efficient and dumps less heat, but the 655 is more powerful and quieter. Hard to separate the two, and really depends on per-user criteria.

Tubing

My philosphy with tubing is that it's just there to carry the water to/from components. The thinner the tubing is, the more restriction it adds for no benefit. If one is concerned about performance then why add unneeded restriction which reduces flow rates and reduces performance? For aesthetic reasons people may want to use thinner tubing, and in fact thinner tubing may very well be suitable for certain setups where the flow rates are low enough that the tubing doesn't offer excessive restriction.

1/2" ID tubing with 3/4" OD is out. Dead. Don't use it. It is silly, oversized, heavy, expensive, and just downright not required unless you have a very specific need to chase flow rates much greater than 10LPM.

Best performance tubing (up to 10LPM flow rates): 7/16" ID tubing with 3/32" wall thickness (5/8" OD) slipped over 1/2" barb fittings. This provides the same flow rates as 1/2" ID tubing, will bend corners just as well as 1/2" ID tubing, but will do so with less effort. It weighs half as much, costs much less, is thinner and easier to route then 1/2".

Best compromise tubing (up to 6LPM flow rates): 3/8" ID tubing

If, through a combination of the pump being used and the waterblock components being used that the flow rates of the system will never be that high, then it is okay to use thinner tubing as per the user's aesthetic wishes. However, the following flow rates should be kept in mind when deciding whether a certain tubing size is suitable, or if a larger tubing size probably should be chosen:

8mm ID tubing => Up to 4LPM flow rates
7mm ID tubing => Up to 3LPM flow rates
1/4" ID tubing => Up to 2LPM flow rates

If the system is never going to get above those flow rates regardless of what tubing size is being used, then by all means feel free to choose and use a smaller tubing size. For tubing sizes under 3/8" though - it is preferable that compression, rather than barb, style fittings are used.
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Hmmm - that'll do for starters. This is turning out to be longer than I thought. I'll make an additional post later covering: radiators and radiator fans, and reservoirs.

For CPU and GPU blocks, if you're after ultimate performance just look at the various reviews scattered about the place, but pick reviewers who know what they're doing and use good testing procedures and explicitly mention and make an effort to control all the variables involved. I do not believe that hard-drive and northbridge blocks are necessary at all. I do believe that mosfet blocks would be nice to have, but no-one makes them, nor do many motherboards support their installation.

For my main personal setup I use an Iwaki RD-30 pump, 7/16" ID tubing, an actual car radiator with 3 low-noise fans drawing air through it set up in a radiator box, a Storm/G5 CPU waterblock, and a custom-made GPU waterblock
 
Cathar said:
I wasn't necessarily going to make a suggestion that you seem to have decided for me that I was going to make. I was merely asking for a clarification and did not want to spend time making a suggestion that may not have been applicable.
i did not mean to sound pushy, but you did indeed say that you were going to make a suggestion.

i included a question about the new thermochill rad because i have as of yet seen no reviews of it and i have not yet seen it for sale. i was therefore a bit curious as to what that low noise unit can handle. perhaps i should not have asked in this thread, but when i started a thread asking about it, i think that only one person replied and did not really say anything about its cooling capacity.
 
Cathar said:
Stuff about pumps

Can the Laing DDC accept smaller barbs or compression fittings? I haven't found anywhere that sells them with anything other than 3/8" or larger barbs, and since the low flow makes it convenient for smaller tube sizes, it seems odd that there wouldn't be smaller options.
 
Master Ninja said:
Can the Laing DDC accept smaller barbs or compression fittings? I haven't found anywhere that sells them with anything other than 3/8" or larger barbs, and since the low flow makes it convenient for smaller tube sizes, it seems odd that there wouldn't be smaller options.

I've actually threaded the DDC barbs to 1/8 npt threads so it is possible to put adapters to the barbs. Alphacool actually makes a clear top with g 1/4 threads (also known as 1/4 bsp threads) allowing you to put any fittings you wish.
 
Hmm, and where would I go about buying an Iwaki RD-30? I googled it and found extremely little..

People have told me the AC stuff looks good, but makes no compromise in preformance and could compete with the best out there. Thats why im buying it. I believe it would be the ultimate in looks by far and pretty close to the ultimate in preformance.
 
J-M-E said:
Hmm, and where would I go about buying an Iwaki RD-30? I googled it and found extremely little..

Yeah, the RD-30 is both extremely rare and very expensive (~$275 US), plus you have to add a 24v power supply to it as well (~$40). Still, it fits the bill of "ultimate no matter the cost" which is what was originally stated.

Of the pumps I listed above, I forgot to mention the Iwaki MD-20RZ. If you can't get the RD-30, then the MD-20RZ is very close to the next best thing, and that'll set you back in the ~$150US range. The 20RZ is fairly large though as well, and pretty much requires that you at least use a good 2 or 3 fan radiator to manage it's heat, so it does come with its caveats. The MD-20RZ is an excellent pump provided you match it with adequately specced equipment.

Still, down at less than stratospheric prices, the AQX-DC12-50Z (MCP600) and the new Laing D4 (MCP655) are both around the $75-80 mark, are of excellent quality, and will offer performance approaching that of the Iwaki's.

If your flow rates are never going to be more than 3-4LPM because you're using super-restrictive blocks and small ID tubing, then the Laing DDC is your best bet, because the other pumps above will be dumping more heat into the loop due to their powerful nature than is necessary.

People have told me the AC stuff looks good, but makes no compromise in preformance and could compete with the best out there. Thats why im buying it. I believe it would be the ultimate in looks by far and pretty close to the ultimate in preformance.

The AC stuff does look good, and does offer very good performance. However, it does make trade-offs for performance vs noise vs cost vs size, as does everything else out there. People can argue that in the end that those trade-offs don't matter, but I believe that it is better to be fully aware of the full picture of what makes up the "ultimate" in performance, so that the buyer can then decide what trade-offs that they are accepting when buying something.

i.e. make an informed decision and understand and accept the extent of that decision as to whether or not it exactly aligns with your stated goals.

Having said that, I'm not saying don't buy AC. Go for it. If appearance forms an important part of your buying decision then yes, I would tend to agree that the AC gear is arguably the equipment that best marries that concepts of "looks good/great" with "high performance". I would argue that it does not provide "the best" performance though, and there's more than just my opinion on the matter that backs that statement up, but again, it's a matter of priorities.

If you're interested in learning more about watercooling and what factors go into each element, then here's some good threads to read into:

Tubing
Actually my post above pretty much summarises this adequately

Radiators & Fans
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10000 (excellent discussion on fan noise vs performance starting part-way through the thread)
http://thermal-management-testing.com/radiator testing 1.htm (good introductory analysis)
http://thermal-management-testing.com/ThermoChill.htm (good tests on Thermochill radiators)
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=383413 (summary of performance of the new low-noise high performance Thermochill PA160.1 radiator)

Pumps
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825 (excellent discussion on the aspects that make up desirable pumps)

CPU Waterblocks
http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php - results should be viewed with consideration of the content of the pump discussion thread above, as it factors in explanations of block flow resistance when interpreting the results shown

GPU Waterblocks
Not a lot about that's really that good sadly

Take a poke around and see what information is out there and the depths of discussion that go into exploring the "ultimate" in water-cooling if that's what your goal is.
 
DFI Daishi said:
i included a question about the new thermochill rad because i have as of yet seen no reviews of it and i have not yet seen it for sale. i was therefore a bit curious as to what that low noise unit can handle. perhaps i should not have asked in this thread, but when i started a thread asking about it, i think that only one person replied and did not really say anything about its cooling capacity.

In summary:

~0.044 C/W with a single 22dBA/45cfm fan
~0.038 C/W with a single 26dBA/55cfm fan
~0.031 C/W with a single 30dBA/70cfm fan
(est.) 0.027 C/W with a single 35dBA/85cfm fan **
(est.) 0.023 C/W with a single 41dBA/105cfm fan **

In typical use with a single 22dBA fan will sustain water temps at 5C above air-intake temps.

On sale in the UK now, will be on sale in the USA from Danger Den and other retailers shortly.

** - these results will be confirmed with actual tests in the next 24-48 hours.
 
Cathar said:
In summary:

~0.044 C/W with a single 22dBA/45cfm fan
~0.038 C/W with a single 26dBA/55cfm fan
~0.031 C/W with a single 30dBA/70cfm fan
(est.) 0.027 C/W with a single 35dBA/85cfm fan **
(est.) 0.023 C/W with a single 41dBA/105cfm fan **

In typical use with a single 22dBA fan will sustain water temps at 5C above air-intake temps.

On sale in the UK now, will be on sale in the USA from Danger Den and other retailers shortly.

** - these results will be confirmed with actual tests in the next 24-48 hours.
thank you. i appreciate the info.

i'm an end user, and i have not taken courses in fluid or thermal dynamics. therefore, it is sometimes difficult to decipher detailed info regarding watercooling equipment.

it's not easy to know how what level of restricition the loop contains. how much loss through the tubing? the rad? the waterblocks? the T line? without that info it's hard to work out the equivalent head(even if i was good with the relevent equations), and therefore the flow rate that the pump is putting out.

the same thing with fans on the rad. the fans have a CFM output vs restriction curve. the rad has a restriction per CFM curve. where does a given pairing sit in relation to both curves? it's a bit hard for me to say without the equations for the curves.

performance curves, and maybe a equations for the curves of all products in the loop would help those that want to try and get the most out of the loop.

i've been playing the diminishing returns game with my peltiers for some time now. all in all, it has not been terrible worthwhile except as an expensive and sometimes dangerous learning experience. more hard data might have helped me to understand how hard it would be to keep the peltier hot sides at optimal opperating temperatures, but i'm not turning back until i have to.

i really wish that more hardware makers would provide better info on their products. most users would probably ignor it anyway, but it would be handy to try and pre-plan loops.

i like the info that thermochill makes available for their products and your posting here is helping to keep that info up to date with their most recent product. thank you.
 
J-M-E said:
People have told me the AC stuff looks good, but makes no compromise in preformance and could compete with the best out there. Thats why im buying it. I believe it would be the ultimate in looks by far and pretty close to the ultimate in preformance.
well, cathar has spoken in a great deal more depth on the subject, but you remember how i mentioned earlier that the closer your processor is to ambient, the harder it is for the watercooling system to cool it?

heat goes from high temperature areas to low temperature areas. the greater the difference from hott to cool, the faster the heat moves. if the processor is hardly warmer than the coolant, and the coolant is hardly warmer than the air, then your cooling system really has to do a lot of work to move any heat at all.

aqua computer stuff is pretty good, and the temperature differences from air to processor are pretty small. to make the difference any smaller takes a whole lot of effort on the part of the pump, rad, waterblock and everything else. hence the big pump, the killer block and everything else.
 
DFI Daishi said:
aqua computer stuff is pretty good, and the temperature differences from air to processor are pretty small. to make the difference any smaller takes a whole lot of effort on the part of the pump, rad, waterblock and everything else. hence the big pump, the killer block and everything else.

Which is why I'm running A-C stuff :D Because I don't want a balls to the walls H20 system that takes up a ton of space and is noisy as hell. ;) If I wanted that I would go get myself a Vapo-Chill unit and be done with it.
 
Top Nurse said:
Because I don't want a balls to the walls H20 system that takes up a ton of space and is noisy as hell. ;)

In that were a user's criteria, why not just buy a Laing DDC ($75 - silent/quality), a Swiftech MCW6000 ($45 - best cost/performance ratio around), a Thermochill PA160.1 Radiator (est. ~$100 - best noise/performance ratio around), a Yate-Loon fan ($5 - 22dBA), and 10' of 3/8" ID tubing ($10)? That'd all easily fit inside a mid-tower case.

$235 for all that, and you'd have to go a long way further with dollars to beat it for performance or for silence.

Just a suggestion as per the stated goals...
 
Cathar,
Would a NexXos XP beat Cuplex XT?
I'm only asking this because it's been on my searches for a while, seeing as how your g5 block isn't readily available yet....
 
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