Ultimate System??

E

elliottlock

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Messages
120
Hi,

I have no doubt this question gets asked all the time but if you had £3500 to spend on a machine and the Mainframe only not worrying about the montior or anything. Would you custom build or go to someone?

And if you were to custom build what spec could you get for that money.

also does anyone got any good links for pre-built systems around that price etc...

I'm not into overclocking much I'd rather have a very powerful and very stable system.

Cheers,

EL
 
Yep I thought so to, I have built many othersystems so it's nothing new i just wana get the right parts and i expect to get alot for £3500 LOL

Anyone got any good system setups they think i should get?
 
You know, by looking at your sig, you probably already know what to build him...

I think we know he'll end up with an FX-60

probably an X1900XT if he likes ATI
or 2 7900 GTX if he likes Nvidia

Raptor 150gig would be nice too...

it's not challenging when he has a budget of 3500+
heh
 
Depending on what the person was looking for (gaming vs multithreaded applications vs development/usability etc), I'd give the gist between dual core and dualcore+dualcpu, plenty of ram either way, and either SLI or a huge raid array once again depending on whether its gaming vs video editing or similar stuff. Thats plenty of money so only quality hardware should be chosen no matter what.
 
FX60
2gb PC4000 pick brand
DFI CFX-3200 for Crossfire or DFI Expert for SLI
150 Raptor
1x 250gb Samsung Spinpoints P120
add more HDs later if needed
X-FI -pick flavor
Silverstone 650w or PCP&C (noisy until new silencers come out), or Seasonic 600w
1900xtx + 1900 Crossfire master or 7900GTX x2
TV Tuner if you want
Pick case - preferrably for me TJ06/07, Stacker, P180/150 etc.
Few Plextor IDE Burners
Fan controlller, w/e you want
Nexus fans, and nice sythe ninja HS, or w/e you want
Custom cables sleeved, etc lights w/e pimp it out..

Ultimate build, and quiet!!
 
Just interested why you choose DFI and not Asus?

Aslo I'll probaly get 4GB of RAM think I can afford it only worry is getting the mortherboard to take it and windows for that matter LOL as i hear windows only allocates 3GB...
 
Ultimate PC - screw that FX-60!

Obviously you want dual opteron 285's with a nice 8gb of RAM in NUMA (you'll need xp pro x64 or linux for this).

Of course, if money is really not an option you could go for 8x opteron 885's (16 cores at 2.6ghz each).

Either way, you're much, much better off going with a dual socket 940 solution than limiting yourself to just one cpu, even if it is the FX-60. Any decent dual 940 board will take up to 16 gb of RAM, too.

edit: £3500 is what, $7000 US or so?
 
First, DFI is so you have a plethora of options to optimize, tweak, or overclock to the max. Asus is not bad, but the layout of the A8n32-SLI can only accomidate 2 dual slot coolers + 1 PCI card unlike the CFX-3200 which can do 2 PCI slots (sound + PPU) + 2 double width gfx, AND a free PCIX 1x slot for a TV tuner..etc

Better layout, and just more versitile.

About dual or triple cpus..comeon this isnt a rendering station for microsoft or w/e, what the hell are you gonna do with all that power??? For games, and beyond (not going extreme), a FX60 would be a dream for many of us..
 
elliottlock said:
Just interested why you choose DFI and not Asus?

Aslo I'll probaly get 4GB of RAM think I can afford it only worry is getting the mortherboard to take it and windows for that matter LOL as i hear windows only allocates 3GB...
Click to expand...

When vista comes out, its native 64-bit, so i'd grab 2 now and 2 later if you need it..

elliottlock said:
Also should I go for DDR2 RAM???
Click to expand...

Only if you will be wating for AM2, but if your gonna jump the gun and get a s939, nope wont take DDR2
 
dchrsf said:
First, DFI is so you have a plethora of options to optimize, tweak, or overclock to the max. Asus is not bad, but the layout of the A8n32-SLI can only accomidate 2 dual slot coolers + 1 PCI card unlike the CFX-3200 which can do 2 PCI slots (sound + PPU) + 2 double width gfx, AND a free PCIX 1x slot for a TV tuner..etc

Better layout, and just more versitile.

About dual or triple cpus..comeon this isnt a rendering station for microsoft or w/e, what the hell are you gonna do with all that power??? For games, and beyond (not going extreme), a FX60 would be a dream for many of us..
Click to expand...

More cpu's = more stability and more flexibility. Sure most games only use one core, but you can have that second core running the OS and any background applications. With 4 cores you could be playing a game, running a few torrents, listening to music and burning a DVD, all at the same time. And you could alt-tab between them as much as you wanted.

Additionally, with a normal dual-core, single socket setup, the two cores can bottleneck each other when both are trying to access main memory at the same time. In a dual socket system with NUMA, each cpu has it's own RAM to make use of, so you eliminate that bottleneck. That RAM is going to be ECC as well so it's going to be more stable.

Honestly if you're looking to spend that much on a system the money is much better spent on a solid server-grade dual rig than on pretty lights and windows. You'll get more power, stability, and future-proofing than any single-socket system.
 
Well I am a gamer but I probaly do more video editing and level design worldcraft etc these days then gaming...

I mean aslong as I can run CS at pretty high spec I'm cool and If possible get a bit of SLI going or crossfire? but i'd rather render video in 2 seconds than see an extra bit of detail on a door in CS LOL

I mean if i do go down the route of application over gaming how much do i really lose from my gaming experience??
 
You can still get a great gaming experience with a dual opteron system. The opteron 254's are single core at 2.8 ghz, the 285's are dual core at 2.6 ghz. In addition, a lot of the newer dual socket 940 boards are SLi as well. The most recommended dual 940 mobo is the Supermicro H8DCE - it takes up to 16gb of RAM (DDR1, ECC), can take two opteron 2xx processors, has 8 SATA ports and 2x pci-e 16x slots for SLi.
 
dchrsf what is your view on this?

As i know you were thinking different, just trying to take all views into account here...
 
I still think that dual processors are overkill..I mean I can theoretically play a game and burn a dvd, and although it will burn slower, it still completes fine when your back to desktop, and its not like your trying to beat any speed records..

I understand video encoding and playing games/ having free use of the computer without worrying about hogging the cpu and slowing encoding, but dual cores suite this fine, and dual cpus is abit over the edge. Yes it is probably faster, but the question is by how much, and is it really woth the premium.

I'd go over to a friends house, and multitask on even a highend single core and see if its fast enough.. Dual core I hear is even better.

No I dont own a dual CPU setup, OR a dual core; but I do know my XP 3200+ while not the fastest, does photoshop probably 85% of it's capacity while on winamp + DSP, torrents up, AIM, firefox, IE, Outlook..while BF2 is minimized in the background. Dual core - Just load the first core with everything listed above, but photoshop, and inplace of PS, use your video encoding.

Doing video stuff will speed up with dual core, but not sure about dual optys. You'd need to ask someone about wheather that would help, but it may..

Look at some benchmarks if you can find some (no time to look @ school now) comparing single, dual cores; and single and dual processors in the program you'll be using.

Seriously, for any normal user, even a X2 3800+ is VERY fast, not to mention OC-ing.

Sorry if this is just a blurt of ideas, but that's my view right now; will chat more when I get home in 2hr:40min~
 
elliottlock said:
Hi,

I have no doubt this question gets asked all the time but if you had £3500 to spend on a machine and the Mainframe only not worrying about the montior or anything. Would you custom build or go to someone?

And if you were to custom build what spec could you get for that money.

also does anyone got any good links for pre-built systems around that price etc...

I'm not into overclocking much I'd rather have a very powerful and very stable system.

Cheers,

EL
Click to expand...
phase.... def phase... and get into ocing.... ;)... heck at that cost you could get a cascade
 
In my opinion if you're looking at that kind of budget, a dual proc dual core opteron system is a fantastic idea. If you're into video editing, gaming, photoshop etc. or any other multithreaded application (remember that new apps will start to become multithreaded) then going quad core would be a beautiful thing.

dchrsf, I agree that for most people two procs and four cores is overkill, but if you're heavily into video editing and more importantly have the money to do it, why not? There are HUGE performance boosts to be had in just the dual core realm (I wish I weren't still in college...) and I think that you cannot consider purchasing anything less these days if you're doing video editing, unless of course you're on a tight budget.

So, when you're looking for a good setup for video editing and gaming (if you go either dual proc [quad core] or single proc dual core), I'd look into:

1. SLI/Crossfire setup (either two 7900GTXs or x1900XTXs).

2. 2-4 gigs of RAM

3. Two 150 gig Raptors in a RAID 0 array, two 500 gig drives in a RAID 0 array (perhaps get some redundancy going)

4. PC&P PSU

5. Pair of plextor DVD-RWs

6. Dual Zalman 9500s if going dual proc, otherwise a single Scythe Ninja if going single proc

7. CM Stacker to fit all this gear in!

EDIT: Even quad sli is within your reach! All this, "I've basically got no budget" is making me salivate...
 
elliottlock said:
dchrsf what is your view on this?

As i know you were thinking different, just trying to take all views into account here...
Click to expand...

What's your budget, man? I thought you said it was about 3500 english pounds, but I could be wrong. If we had an idea of what your financial situation was it would be easier to make recommendations. For myself, I've planned out a sweet dual opty system for about $2800 US. It's not heavy on the gaming but it would be easy to tweak it to make it a better game machine.
 
Around £3500 or $6220

I just want Speed :D

wonder if i stick a can of NOS in if that will speed things up LOL
 
elliottlock said:
wonder if i stick a can of NOS in if that will speed things up LOL
Click to expand...

Nah man, you need carnauba wax and WD-40. just wax it up and lube up the components and it'll be fast as hell.

I did it to my modem and gain an extra 30 kbps!
 
elliottlock said:
Around £3500 or $6220

I just want Speed :D

wonder if i stick a can of NOS in if that will speed things up LOL
Click to expand...

See that's what I was thinking - that the exchange rate was pretty high (though I thought it was more like double). So anyways, if you're going to spend $6000 on a comp, there's no reason not to go with at least dual proc, and dual core dual proc is totally feasible.

Here:

Mobo: Supermicro H8DCE ~$360
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813182081

Ram: 4x 1gb Samsung ECC DDR400 ~$540
http://www.officialmemory.com/samsung-1024mb-64x8-pc3200-bufferedregistered-sdram-dimm-p-107.aspx

CPUs: 2x Opteron 280 ~$1700
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103573

Videocards: 2x Geforce 7900 GTX 512mb ~$1100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143047

PSU: PCP+C 1kw Customized for the Supermicro Board ~$500
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=TC1KW


That's only ~$4200, so you have over $1800 left for a case, hard drives, monitor, etc, and you have a PC most of us will only ever dream of.
 
dchrsf said:
I still think that dual processors are overkill..I mean I can theoretically play a game and burn a dvd, and although it will burn slower, it still completes fine when your back to desktop, and its not like your trying to beat any speed records..

I understand video encoding and playing games/ having free use of the computer without worrying about hogging the cpu and slowing encoding, but dual cores suite this fine, and dual cpus is abit over the edge. Yes it is probably faster, but the question is by how much, and is it really woth the premium.

I'd go over to a friends house, and multitask on even a highend single core and see if its fast enough.. Dual core I hear is even better.

No I dont own a dual CPU setup, OR a dual core; but I do know my XP 3200+ while not the fastest, does photoshop probably 85% of it's capacity while on winamp + DSP, torrents up, AIM, firefox, IE, Outlook..while BF2 is minimized in the background. Dual core - Just load the first core with everything listed above, but photoshop, and inplace of PS, use your video encoding.

Doing video stuff will speed up with dual core, but not sure about dual optys. You'd need to ask someone about wheather that would help, but it may..

Look at some benchmarks if you can find some (no time to look @ school now) comparing single, dual cores; and single and dual processors in the program you'll be using.

Seriously, for any normal user, even a X2 3800+ is VERY fast, not to mention OC-ing.

Sorry if this is just a blurt of ideas, but that's my view right now; will chat more when I get home in 2hr:40min~
Click to expand...


I'm confused by your post. You're saying dual cpu is overkill, yet dual core is not. Dual socket, single core, is almost identical to dual core, single socket. And you report that you hear dual core is better than single core. I'm just not following your logic at all.
 
i think he'd be better off with a fx-60 on phase then two cpus and ecc... unless he's actualy doing somthing that will use 4 cores which by the time games use more then 2 cores... those cpu's are gonna be dogs... with phase he could run that fx-60 at about 3.2 ghz or more... for anything but cad or maya or such i'd rather have two 3.2 ghz cores then 4 2.4 ghz cores with the added latency of ECC
 
ryuji said:
i think he'd be better off with a fx-60 on phase then two cpus and ecc... unless he's actualy doing somthing that will use 4 cores which by the time games use more then 2 cores... those cpu's are gonna be dogs... with phase he could run that fx-60 at about 3.2 ghz or more... for anything but cad or maya or such i'd rather have two 3.2 ghz cores then 4 2.4 ghz cores with the added latency of ECC
Click to expand...

Most opterons will oc 400+mhz on air, so if he went for some good third-party cooling or water cooling the 285's could probably hit 3ghz.

As usual, it comes down to what the op is actually going to do with the comp ;)
 
Slartibartfast said:
Most opterons will oc 400+mhz on air, so if he went for some good third-party cooling or water cooling the 285's could probably hit 3ghz.

As usual, it comes down to what the op is actually going to do with the comp ;)
Click to expand...
doesnt negate the hit of ECC as well as the fact that MP mobo's tend to oc worse then single cpu mobos... there not built for ocing... there built for running servers
 
ryuji said:
doesnt negate the hit of ECC as well as the fact that MP mobo's tend to oc worse then single cpu mobos... there not built for ocing... there built for running servers
Click to expand...

But how much of a latency difference will ecc really make? I know most ecc ram runs at rather loose timings, like 3-3-3-8, but the difference that makes between 2-2-2-5 is debatable. Besides, you make up for it with a much more stable computing environment - ask anybody's who gone dual.

For me personally I'll take stability over speed, but I understand that if you're a hardcore PC gamer you want every last frame per second you can get.
 
Slartibartfast said:
But how much of a latency difference will ecc really make? I know most ecc ram runs at rather loose timings, like 3-3-3-8, but the difference that makes between 2-2-2-5 is debatable. Besides, you make up for it with a much more stable computing environment - ask anybody's who gone dual.

For me personally I'll take stability over speed, but I understand that if you're a hardcore PC gamer you want every last frame per second you can get.
Click to expand...
stability is moot... if your system isnt stable you didnt oc it right ;)
 
ryuji said:
stability is moot... if your system isnt stable you didnt oc it right ;)
Click to expand...

You can't tell me that unless your OC is off, every comp is always stable, esp. when under heavy load. With a good dual system I'm talking alt-tabbing out of half-life 2 without having the system pause.
 
Slartibartfast said:
You can't tell me that unless your OC is off, every comp is always stable, esp. when under heavy load. With a good dual system I'm talking alt-tabbing out of half-life 2 without having the system pause.
Click to expand...
i do that with my p4 at 4.5 ghz 300fsb... i assumed a dual core a64 would do the same

this ES has let me explore the factor cpu takes on gaming... surprisingly its very little... 3 ghz 200 fsb still runs games at the same settings and quality that 4.5 ghz 300fsb does... doesnt mean that im not gonna oc my cpu even more once i got a mobo that doesnt have a vreg that feeds 1.18v and only 1.18v... on phase this cpu has done over 5.7 ghz.. and with my previous observation theres no need to have more then that for cpu power esp considering an fx60 at 3.2 ghz is a hell of a lot of cpu power
 
ryuji said:
i do that with my p4 at 4.5 ghz 300fsb... i assumed a dual core a64 would do the same

this ES has let me explore the factor cpu takes on gaming... surprisingly its very little... 3 ghz 200 fsb still runs games at the same settings and quality that 4.5 ghz 300fsb does... doesnt mean that im not gonna oc my cpu even more once i got a mobo that doesnt have a vreg that feeds 1.18v and only 1.18v... on phase this cpu has done over 5.7 ghz.. and with my previous observation theres no need to have more then that for cpu power esp considering an fx60 at 3.2 ghz is a hell of a lot of cpu power
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Certainly it's cheaper to go for a single-socket solution, even with phase-change cooling. Again, it depends on what the op wants to do with this box, if s/he is trying to save money, etc. I think that a server-grade dual socket pc is more of an investment, is more upgradeable and will last longer. I mean if you're going to spend $6000 no matter what, you might as well get as much bang for your buck as you can, correct? If cost is a concern, then certainly a solution such as the FX60 is a good idea.
 
you do have a valid point but my point of the matter is that if the purpose of the system is for gaming... by the time theres anything out there that will actualy use 4 cpus that setup wouldnt be fast anymore and no doubt socket 940's days are as numbered as 939
 
Definately get dual socket 940, 4 sticks of whatever Registered DDR you want, and a good video card :)

4 cores is neat, toss your Operating System on the second core, run the game on the first, and whatever you want on the second two with no performance hit :)
 
How about this you guys, and please tell me what you would change and why like if i've made the dumb mistak of something not being compatible with something else:

Motherboard: Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe nForce4 SLi X16 (Socket 939) = £140
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core FX60 (Socket 939) = £750
RAM: (Times 2 4GB) Corsair 2GB DDR XMS4400 Pro TwinX (2x1GB) CAS3 550MHz = £470
Graphics Card: (Times 2 In SLI) XFX GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB XXX Edition GDDR3 = £1000
Physics Accelerator: BFG Ageia PhysX Accelerator = £218
Hard Drive: (Times 2) Western Digital 150GB 10k Raptor = £408
PSU: Turbo-Cool 1KW-Quad SLI = £291
DVD-ROM: (Times 2) Plextor PX-130A DVD-ROM = £36
Case: Akasa Eclipse-62 Aluminum Case = £78

Total = £3391 :D

Any thoughts...
 
elliottlock said:
How about this you guys, and please tell me what you would change and why like if i've made the dumb mistak of something not being compatible with something else:

Motherboard: Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe nForce4 SLi X16 (Socket 939) = £140
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core FX60 (Socket 939) = £750
RAM: (Times 2 4GB) Corsair 2GB DDR XMS4400 Pro TwinX (2x1GB) CAS3 550MHz = £470
Graphics Card: (Times 2 In SLI) XFX GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB XXX Edition GDDR3 = £1000
Physics Accelerator: BFG Ageia PhysX Accelerator = £218
Hard Drive: (Times 2) Western Digital 150GB 10k Raptor = £408
PSU: Turbo-Cool 1KW-Quad SLI = £291
DVD-ROM: (Times 2) Plextor PX-130A DVD-ROM = £36
Case: Akasa Eclipse-62 Aluminum Case = £78

Total = £3391 :D

Any thoughts...
Click to expand...

That would certianly be a smoking machine. One thing to keep in mind: the 850 and 1kw PCP+C psu's are significantly longer than a regular psu (they're 23cm deep) and can have trouble fitting in the case. If the case has the PSU up top, it won't fit if there's a fan in the top of the case. If the PSU sits in the bottom, sometimes the hard drive rack gets in the way.
 
ryuji said:
you do have a valid point but my point of the matter is that if the purpose of the system is for gaming... by the time theres anything out there that will actualy use 4 cpus that setup wouldnt be fast anymore and no doubt socket 940's days are as numbered as 939
Click to expand...

Well, how do you define "uses 4 cpus?" Sure no single app uses them all, but the OS will divide tasks amongst them fine, so right now you could be using all of them.
 
The PSU should fit that case as i already have it and it sits in the top and it can run about 2/3's of the case deep (basicly up to the back of ur DVD drive)
 
elliottlock said:
The PSU should fit that case as i already have it and it sits in the top and it can run about 2/3's of the case deep (basicly up to the back of ur DVD drive)
Click to expand...

I would measure it, just to be sure. At the very least you should be able to drop the dvd drive down a slot.
 
Yeah, apart from that anyone think i should change anything, like one thing i'm not sure about is the RAM working with the motherboard?

Does anyone know if it will work ok??? It's not to higher MHz etc.. lol
 
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