Ultimate “not so new game” PC .

[mzs_biteme]

OK, here is the idea:
I’ve been getting ready to move to a different apartment and as always with every move, I end up going through my stuff again, and finding stuff I don’t need. Well, let’s just say I ended up finding all my “old” game CD’s and hundreds of game demos. I got a bunch of Boot Magazine (Maximum PC nowadays) demo CD’s dating back to their first issue.
Anyways, I want to assemble a PC and be able to play all those games. We’re talking, Duke Nukem, Doom 2, Quake, Prophecy, Descent 1,2,3, Deus Ex, Heretic 2, Forsaken, etc, etc, etc…. I’m sure most of you still look back at these games and remember hours and hours of enjoyment out of them. Unfortunately most of these game will not work under Windows XP or 2000. So I was thinking of getting a 2.6GHz (2800+ for AMD) CPU with 256MB RAM (512 wasn’t a “minimum” requirements for those games ), and a GeForce 3 (or 4) card. I want GeForce 3 because I don’t think I’ll be installing DirectX 9.x. I’ll stick with DirectX6 or 7, because that’s what most of those games were designed to run on, aside from 3Dfx’s Glide, and OpenGL. To be honest, I wish I could use 3DFx cards in P4 and AMD boards, but their electrically incompatible and I sold my Voodoo 3 3500 card 2yrs ago anyways… . 3Dfx was and always will be my favorite video chipset… It changed my gaming life with the first Voodoo 1 card I got. Nothing ever looked so good as Quake with Glide wrapped. Sweeeeeeet……
Anyways, lest get back to system specs:

2.6GHz (2800+ for AMD)
256MB RAM (maybe 512 later on)
GF3 card (64MB min)
60GB drive should be enough for 30~50 games from 5~7 yrs ago
SoundBlaster card with DOS compatibility
Nic for some old school Quake 2 Lithium mod matches…
Joystick for some kick-ass Descent action
Older (without adware and spyware) Gamespy

All running on Windows 98 SE of course….

I’ll just load the base OS and patch it up ( minus the newest DirectX ), and start loading games 2~3 at a time and testing them, If they work fine and don’t blow up on me< I’ll create a Ghost image of the hard drive. I’ll repeat that process until all games are loaded and I have a “final” Ghost image created. Gotta have a back up. Hopefully I’ll end up with an entire Desktop space filled with nothing but game icons…. Oh yeah, baby…..

So what you guys think? Open to suggestions…

Mike

 

[HyperTension]

Yea.. I used to play the crap outta Desent2 and 3 on kali.net. Wow.. I really miss that game, need to find descent3.. Can remember the first time I actually got a slight case of vertigo due to a twisting desent while inverted.. Ohhhhhh Ohhhh I need a wet-nap...

 

[dderidex]

Ummmm....of that last of games you provided....all can be made to work on XP, ya know.

You might want to look into XP's "compatibility" options for the program shortcuts.

For stubborn games, you've always got DOSBox, too.

Finally, you might want to browse around the Vogons forum. (Vogons = Very Old Games On New Systems)

 

[mulpsmebeauty]

The first PC I actually owned had Windows XP, and I had a vast catalogue of old PC classics to get that I'd read about, but never played. I've got lots of old games now and the only one that I haven't manged to get working under XP is Theme Park World. There's a patch for it somewhere online as well, I just lost interest before I got it up and running though.

I wouldn't worry too much about not getting XP.

EDIT - oh yeah, and I'd go for the 512Mb RAM anyway - RAM's not expensive and it's better to have too much than too little. I can heartily recommend the GF3 Ti500 for playing them on as well - that's what I had and you can probably pick one up for next to nothing on eBay.

 

[Alex41290]

yeah, if u right click the icon on the desktop it lets you run it like you would in an older OS, i'm pretty sure....

other than that, i would get a bigger hdd (80GB at LEAST...preferably 120GB) but that's just me....

 

[Darth_Fluffy]

You can have both XP and 98 on the same system, ya know..

 

[mzs_biteme]

I guess I should mention I already have a WinXP gaming box (signature) for games like Quake 3 and newer...
The whole Win98SE thing is more of a "nostalgia" thing for me... Also, I'm already spending lots of time on this project and playing with DOS emulators may even be more time consuming. I just wanna pop them in and play...
I know the hardware (2.6GHz) may be an overkill, but I don't have any of my older PC components ( sold them ) in the 1~1.5 GHz range. Besides, with Outpost.com selling Semptron 2400+ combos for $69, this project will stay on the "low budget" side.
And, when I bored out of my mine after playing close to 50 different games , I can always sell the PC too...
Anybody ever played Shattered Steel by Interplay? That was a fun game. Took hours of my life away from me.... Hehe...

Mike

 

[dderidex]

Actually, you'd be surprised at how easy DOSBox is to use, and, as noted, many games can be run in 'compatibility mode' for older OS's just by right-clicking on the icon and telling it to.

As to the processor - if you do eBay, you can find used older Athlon chips for REAL CHEAP. Heck, even Newegg sells 1.3 Ghz Athlon processors for $42 shipped.

In any case, just remember to never browse the internet from your 98 machine, or have it connected to your network without a hardware firewall. Virus and worm makers have long since moved on from 98 being a challenge to attack. Pretty much, in our company, we only let our client's operator centers put their PCs on the internet if they are Win2K, 2003, or XP. Just far, FAR too many security holes in 98.

 

[mzs_biteme]

I've been behind a double firewall ever since I got a cable modem back in '99. That's back in the days before reasonably priced routers, (i think Linksys router back then cost $200.. ) and BlackICe Defender was the best (for Windows) software firewall out there. I also had a "proxy" PC with 2 NICs acting as a Firewall/DHCP server. Never got me Win98 PC infected just having my PC connected 24/7. Now downloading questionable files from even more questionable newsgroups was another thing... But that's when Ghost and I became best friends...
On the hardware issue, no matter how cheap some older CPU's are, I refuse to buy into old hardware. Software may be another thing, but I usually don't hold on to a PC for longer than 16months. Constantly upgrading. Gotta have some kind of resell value...
Thanks for suggestions though..

Mike

 

[Astral Abyss]

I built a DOS box recently to play old games, like the ones you mentioned... but mostly older than that. Ok, actually I just built it to play Master of Orion and X-Com, but then I realized all the other cool games out there that I'd forgotten and it turned into an obsession.

If you want your DOS games to really be like you remembered them, there's no substitute for the real deal 16 bit SoundBlaster with a wavetable daughtercard. (I still have my old 2MB Roland General-MIDI card that I use) Otherwise, you'll have to do emulation through Win98SE if you have a PCI card, or use the crappy "DOS box" drivers that suck up tons of your precious 640k base memory. Also, get ready to have "issues" with your old games running way too fast in DOS. A lot of those slowdown programs, like "moslo" don't work real well with processors over 500-600MHz, or when emulating DOS through 98 or XP. I found that out with my 1GHz Athlon I am using for my DOS box. I just can't get X-Com to run slow enough.... lol, who'd have ever thought I'd be saying something like that.

I acquired an old piece of crap P2-333 Celeron system that a lady gave me for free, so I think this will become the new DOS box. Best part about it is, all I have to do is stick the Soundblaster, video card, and hard drive in it and it'll work. No reinstalling or anything else to worry about That's good too, cause it took me 2 days of fiddling to get over 600k of base memory free so that games like Tie Fighter and System Shock would run. (final tally is 612k free, woohoo) Moslo should work fine on this for the games that require it... like X-Com, Daggerfall, Megalomania, Scorched Earth, etc.

So, yeah, while those old games will run on that computer, just be aware that old DOS games are going to run into issues like what I mentioned above. Good luck to you though, it's all worth it in the end. Those old games still kick ass.

 

[dderidex]

So, yeah, while those old games will run on that computer, just be aware that old DOS games are going to run into issues like what I mentioned above. Good luck to you though, it's all worth it in the end. Those old games still kick ass.

Ummmm....yeah, that's why you run 'DOSBox'.

You know how they have PS2 Emulators? And NES emulators? Etc?

'DOSBox' is a DOS 5.x emulator. You can set what 'speed' it runs at (IE., if you need a 66mhz CPU, it can 'simulator' a 66mhz CPU without effecting the rest of your PC at all). If you need 640k of base memory, it can 'simulate' 640k of base memory by taking a chunk out of your ram.

DOSBox beats trying to get games running in DOS hands down, no competition. No more trying to allocate resources, tweaking autoexec files, worrying about loadhigh, XMS or EMS memory or drivers for it (and only have enough low memory to load the driver for ONE of XMS or EMS - but which does THIS game require?), legacy soundcard drivers, etc.

No offense, but comments like:

Also, I'm already spending lots of time on this project and playing with DOS emulators may even be more time consuming. I just wanna pop them in and play...

Make me LOL


Somebody obviously wasn't REALLY around for those 'DOS days'. To call ANY DOS game 'pop them in and play' is just

Trust me, DOSBox Emulator and the Vogons board makes playing a DOS game much, MUCH easier than it EVER was on a 'true DOS machine'.

And it's always in development, getting new features and new emulation added to it.

Trust me on this! Give it a try, you'll never go back.

 

[jacuzz1]

A P3 1ghz in an ASus CUSL2-c will fit the bill perfectly. go with 512 muskin pc150 and
black diamond and a Geforce 3 ultra and your in business for the old games on the cheap.

 

[mzs_biteme]

No offense, but comments like:

Make me LOL


Somebody obviously wasn't REALLY around for those 'DOS days'. To call ANY DOS game 'pop them in and play' is just

Ok, so that was a strech, but trust me I do remember configuring sound cards in DOS, and making sure my Vid Card is VESA 2.0 compatible...
Thanks for the catch though...

Mike

 

[Astral Abyss]

DOSBox beats trying to get games running in DOS hands down, no competition. No more trying to allocate resources, tweaking autoexec files, worrying about loadhigh, XMS or EMS memory or drivers for it (and only have enough low memory to load the driver for ONE of XMS or EMS - but which does THIS game require?), legacy soundcard drivers, etc.

But if I already have a computer configured for DOS and running DOS 6, how is emulation better?

And more importantly, if it doesn't emulate my SoundBlaster 16 and my General MIDI daughtercard, it isn't really the same thing. This is the problem I always had with DOS emulators... the sound never works right, or I'm forced to use SW Synth for sound instead of General MIDI.

You're right though, the emulator is a lot easier to use and if you're not really that concerned about perfection, it'll do the job just as well.

I had all the parts sitting around gathering dust, so it was a lot more fun for me to build it into a "DOS Box" and get the real deal instead of using emulation. Soon as I get that old P2 Celeron swapped in I'll be golden, and it'll all have been worth it.

 

[dderidex]

But if I already have a computer configured for DOS and running DOS 6, how is emulation better?

Well, you don't have to keep a stack of boot disks around each having the correct configuration for exactly ONE game and remembering which boot disk went with which game, and which devices you could use with it.

With a DOS Emulator, you simply create a seperate configuration profile for each program you want to 'run', and it handles all that for you.

And more importantly, if it doesn't emulate my SoundBlaster 16 and my General MIDI daughtercard, it isn't really the same thing. This is the problem I always had with DOS emulators... the sound never works right, or I'm forced to use SW Synth for sound instead of General MIDI.

The one I've been plugging supports emulation for:
* Soundblaster
* GUS (???)
* AdLib
* 'PC Speaker' (comes over your soundcard speakers, though)
* Tandy 3-voice
* CMS
* MPU-401 Emulation
* Disney Sound Source

And I see that my version is a few out of date, so they've probably added more.

You're right though, the emulator is a lot easier to use and if you're not really that concerned about perfection, it'll do the job just as well.

I dunno, emulators have a LOT over running in straight DOS. For example, monitors are no longer 640x480 anymore, and simply stretching an old DOS game designed to run in 320x240 or 640x480 (remember the hype 'SVGA' got?) on a modern screen generally makes it look like pixelated crap.

DOSBox can do pixel blending and edge smoothing - sort of like a 2d form of FSAA. Really, REALLY cleans an image up.

I had all the parts sitting around gathering dust, so it was a lot more fun for me to build it into a "DOS Box" and get the real deal instead of using emulation. Soon as I get that old P2 Celeron swapped in I'll be golden, and it'll all have been worth it.

Well, tinkering is one thing. I regularly get the 'tinkering' bug and....do something....horrible...to one of my PCs.

Still, I don't think anymore that 'pure DOS' beats a DOS Emulator. DOS is such a light OS that it can sit inside a system capable of running WinXP without XP even batting an eye, and can thus use a lot of modern graphics card and OS features (DirectDraw, DirectSound, etc) to improve compatibility and quality of DOS games substantially over what they were on release.

 

[Visable-assassin]

ive allready got a half ass rig for that... based on an athlon T-bird 1.4ghz which will be underclocked so games dont run like a bat outta hell.
Gonna load up some old school ultima 8 , stonekeep , syndicate and syndicate wars etc...gotta keep my old stuff alive

 

[ThreeDee]

I'm still looking for the pc version of Forsaken to buy ... long time ago a friend of mine had the game when it was fairly new and burned me a copy of it ... I couldnt install off the copy , but could play the game just fine ...

..after upgrading my old P2 350 setup ... I lost the game and then kind of forgot about it .

I recently found my old illegal copy and remembered how much I enjoyed the game and at the time was pretty "wow"d' by the graphics... and so am looking to buy the game if I can ever find it.

..back then I was new to the computer scene and didnt think much of what was legal or illegal ... never thought copy'ing off a cassette tape and giving it to a friend was even an issue and so thought the same towards getting a free game ...but alas , all that has changed now and I am no longer the ignorant un-edjabicated pc enthusiast I was then ..

back on topic tho:
I work at a school for troubled teens (program) and am one of the computer fix/repair/troubleshooter'r guys out there and they got a buttload of old P100 setups out there with 32 to 64megs of edo goodness and 1.2gb drives with most of them running Win95 on them ...those babies would be pretty good 'DOS boxes

I just threw away about 10 of them too ...darn

 

[PenaltyShot]

For the old Doom stuff (and Heretic and Hexen), definitely get the Doomsday Project. I still fire up Doom2 on my XP machine under Doomsday. Full 90 degree up-down looking, 1600 X 1200 resolution, full keyboard/mouse configurability, coronas, fog, light sources, oh yeah it's sweet!