UFO Hacker Loses Extradition Fight

DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS!??!


Maybe the U.S. just wants to show him all the hidden UFOs?





(and then let the aliens probe him) :D
 
Steve said:
(and then let the aliens probe him) :D
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That's what he was afraid of in the link I posted:
... An American jail. And remember, according to them I was making Washington inoperable 'immediately after September 11'. I'm having all these visions of ... " Gary puts on a redneck prisoner voice, "'What you doing attacking our country, boy? Pick up that soap.'
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Bubba, aliens, what's the difference?
 
Well at least this isn't a case that requires extradition because the RIAA/MPAA said someone was "sharing files" although wouldn't put it past our government to spend money to try it.
 
Nembot said:
With US state secrets only a 'P@55word' away, it was only a matter of time before this happened - and lets face it, it could of been far, far worse.
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Lol a few computers had their passwords recently changed after being set 'P@55word' for ages. Yes they did contain fairly important information on lots of people. :(
 
70 years of being abused in an American gay sex colony..er... prison.... is pretty harsh for a curious guy looking for data on the alien cover up.
 
NKDietrich said:
70 years of being abused in an American gay sex colony..er... prison.... is pretty harsh for a curious guy looking for data on the alien cover up.
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Its where he was looking....Im sure had he hacked into your system or mine , he would be OK.....but this cock smoke decided to fuck with the wrong system...
and 70 years is just right, he will die there...you just don't hack NASA and think your not gonna get in serious trouble.....
 
NKDietrich said:
70 years of being abused in an American gay sex colony..er... prison.... is pretty harsh for a curious guy looking for data on the alien cover up.
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I always find it odd that everyone AUTOMATICALLY takes this guy's word at 100% true when he says's that is what he was doing and they assume 100% that the U.S. is lying about the shit he did.

I mean seriously, they say it like it is fact..."all he was doing...."

Read some of the guy's own interviews from a few years ago...you might change your tune about the guy. At best he's a liar (either then or now).
 
Monkey God said:
Putin is full of shit and is pandering to his people.
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Its amazing how the Georgian army launching a surprise offensive during a ceasefire can somehow be twisted into Russian aggression. S. Ossetia and Abkhazia have been trying to become independent of Georgia since the collapse of the Soviet union, and yet for some reason Georgian Independence is more valued. This current conflict was started when the Georgian army launched a rocket attack on the predominately Russian capital of S. Ossetia, Tskhinvali. Ethnic cleansing is nothing new for the Georgian army and quite frankly the US should be ashamed for supporting Mikheil Saakashvili and Georgian armed forces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0WDvyHHXr8 Commercial breaks to hide the truth. It makes me sick.
 
Draax said:
Its amazing how the Georgian army launching a surprise offensive during a ceasefire can somehow be twisted into Russian aggression. S. Ossetia and Abkhazia have been trying to become independent of Georgia since the collapse of the Soviet union, and yet for some reason Georgian Independence is more valued. This current conflict was started when the Georgian army launched a rocket attack on the predominately Russian capital of S. Ossetia, Tskhinvali. Ethnic cleansing is nothing new for the Georgian army and quite frankly the US should be ashamed for supporting Mikheil Saakashvili and Georgian armed forces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0WDvyHHXr8 Commercial breaks to hide the truth. It makes me sick.
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Actually the Georgians didn't attack first. Read the article I posted.
 
Draax said:
Its amazing how the Georgian army launching a surprise offensive during a ceasefire can somehow be twisted into Russian aggression. S. Ossetia and Abkhazia have been trying to become independent of Georgia since the collapse of the Soviet union, and yet for some reason Georgian Independence is more valued. This current conflict was started when the Georgian army launched a rocket attack on the predominately Russian capital of S. Ossetia, Tskhinvali. Ethnic cleansing is nothing new for the Georgian army and quite frankly the US should be ashamed for supporting Mikheil Saakashvili and Georgian armed forces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0WDvyHHXr8 Commercial breaks to hide the truth. It makes me sick.
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This is not the right thread to push your geopolitical agenda.

Stay on topic or else this thread will be locked.


We're talking about a hacker extradition here, not the political bullshittery thats going on in that hot spot right now.
 
Steve said:
I always find it odd that everyone AUTOMATICALLY takes this guy's word at 100% true when he says's that is what he was doing and they assume 100% that the U.S. is lying about the shit he did.

I mean seriously, they say it like it is fact..."all he was doing...."

Read some of the guy's own interviews from a few years ago...you might change your tune about the guy. At best he's a liar (either then or now).
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I'm not saying he's 100% telling the truth. I'm saying 70 years is overly harsh. Murderers don't even get 70 years most of the time. Guy diddles around in some fuckin computer and sacrifices the rest of his life? That's bullshit, pure and simple.
 
NKDietrich said:
I'm not saying he's 100% telling the truth. I'm saying 70 years is overly harsh. Murderers don't even get 70 years most of the time. Guy diddles around in some fuckin computer and sacrifices the rest of his life? That's bullshit, pure and simple.
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70 years is extreme BS.
Personally, I think maybe 6 months or so, and then no computer use for a few years after that.
 
Monkey God said:
70 years is extreme BS.
Personally, I think maybe 6 months or so, and then no computer use for a few years after that.
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Yeah that seems like a more reasonable sentence, maybe 6 months to a year. And not in the same facility as violent criminals, where abuse of prisoners is rampant, regardless of what crime they committed.

But I think any post-release stipulations would be difficult, since he'd be back in Britain, and the U.S. would no longer have jurisdiction over him. I'm not sure how that works. Any lawyers around?
 
Ockie said:
This is not the right thread to push your geopolitical agenda.

Stay on topic or else this thread will be locked.


We're talking about a hacker extradition here, not the political bullshittery thats going on in that hot spot right now.
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This coming from the guy who believes those who post any type of dissent against the US should be banned. :rolleyes: You are not a mod and as such you are not one to make threats. Nice Ad Hom by the way.
 
NKDietrich said:
I'm not saying he's 100% telling the truth. I'm saying 70 years is overly harsh. Murderers don't even get 70 years most of the time. Guy diddles around in some fuckin computer and sacrifices the rest of his life? That's bullshit, pure and simple.
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Actually murder's due if they commit multiple crimes, which he did. You see what you fail to understand is he did not just break into ONE computer ONE time. He went on a "crime spree" (breaking into government computers is a crime). Now for the second Quarter of 2008 for a single count of Murder the sentence within guidance range had a mean value of 194.7 months (although in federal court the handed down sentence is life for Zone D Level 43 History I). That is more than 16 years for one uncomplicated (and most likely lenient) count and that is the sentence since parole does not occur in the federal system. So yes someone who committed multiple murders or multiple crimes during a murder could easily receive more than 70 years in the federal system given the base offense level is already 43 for just one uncomplicated murder charge. I am not entirely sure where you have gotten your misguided notion of federal sentencing.


Monkey God said:
70 years is extreme BS.
Personally, I think maybe 6 months or so, and then no computer use for a few years after that.
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NKDietrich said:
Yeah that seems like a more reasonable sentence, maybe 6 months to a year. And not in the same facility as violent criminals, where abuse of prisoners is rampant, regardless of what crime they committed.

But I think any post-release stipulations would be difficult, since he'd be back in Britain, and the U.S. would no longer have jurisdiction over him. I'm not sure how that works. Any lawyers around?
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Except he committed a pattern of crimes. Judges typically don't look fondly on long crime indictments during sentencing given it shows a pattern of repeated criminal activity.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Actually murder's due if they commit multiple crimes, which he did. You see what you fail to understand is he did not just break into ONE computer ONE time. He went on a "crime spree" (breaking into government computers is a crime). Now for the second Quarter of 2008 for a single count of Murder the sentence within guidance range had a mean value of 194.7 months. That is more than 16 years for one uncomplicated count and that is the sentence since parole does not occur in the federal system. So yes someone who committed multiple murders or multiple crimes during a murder could easily receive more than 70 years in the federal system given the base offense level is already 43 for just one uncomplicated murder charge. I am not entirely sure where you have gotten your misguided notion of federal sentencing.
What about for cases that aren't tried in federal court, i.e. most murders? Murders tried in federal court are generally pretty rare aren't they? I'm not talking about what the letter of the law says he should get, I'm talking about what's right.

Except he committed a pattern of crimes. Judges typically don't look fondly on long crime indictments during sentencing given it shows a pattern of repeated criminal activity.
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Again, that doesn't make it right to stick a guy behind bars for 70 years with hardened criminals when no one got hurt, and no financial damages incurred. In my opinion, any crime where no harm or damage occurred (and none was intended), should be considered less severe than any crime where financial or physical harm was done.

There's no excuse for a computer haxxor, who didnt do any damage, to be getting more time than people who go around robbing peoples bank accounts blind with identity theft. Or scamming people out of millions using their computer. I don't care if it was a government computer or not.
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Woops, botched the quote break there. Wish we had like a 60 second edit window. Damn you Paul you got to edit your post ;)
 
NKDietrich said:
70 years of being abused in an American gay sex colony..er... prison.... is pretty harsh for a curious guy looking for data on the alien cover up.
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I don't blame him for trying to get out of punishment, it is a right of his defense, but he has exhausted his appeals and will be extradited. It's hard to see how anyone would argue that he didn't get full process in the last 6 or so years since he was arrested.

The problem with a slap on the wrist suggested by some is that it kills the deterrent for the crime, which BTW is very serious. And yes, he did cause damage to files (he has admitted it was an accident) and interrupted service. McKinnon isn't going to get 70 years, but he will be used as an example, probably doing several years. The next prissy hacker geek may think twice if the punishment involves doing real time in a federal prison. <insert Office Space quote>
 
I think his sentence would have been less if he only did it a couple times and didn't brag about it and taunted the US government... then after being caught saying how crappy they are security wise.

There are a lot of high level folks who wants to see the key thrown away with this guy, can't exactly blame them.
 
NKDietrich said:
What about for cases that aren't tried in federal court, i.e. most murders? Murders tried in federal court are generally pretty rare aren't they? I'm not talking about what the letter of the law says he should get, I'm talking about what's right.
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State courts don't matter as this (and federal murder trials) is a federal case so federal sentencing is in force.



Again, that doesn't make it right to stick a guy behind bars for 70 years with hardened criminals when no one got hurt,
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This is a red herring. He will not be incarcerated with "hardened criminals". He will be placed in a Level 1 facility like FCI Miami with other white collar criminals not ADX Florence.

and no financial damages incurred.
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Those compromised systems had to be corrected. That was not free.

In my opinion, any crime where no harm or damage occurred (and none was intended), should be considered less severe than any crime where financial or physical harm was done.
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That's great that is your opinion. And that is how it generally works. If the charge is say B&E (which I am just using for an example) with the amount of damaged assessed by the government his offense level is 20 per count which draws a sentencing guideline of 33-41 months. Now if it were Computer Fraud (which he is actually charged with it) and his offense level is 6 per charge with 14 added for the assessed damage of 750,000 giving him a 20 which draws a sentencing guideline of 33-41 months. The aggregate since he has 7 charges is obviously higher. If he was tried for Murder his base offense level is 43 which draws a sentencing guideline of Life. See how that works?

There's no excuse for a computer haxxor, who didnt do any damage,
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If the systems were compromised he did damage.

to be getting more time than people who go around robbing peoples bank accounts blind with identity theft. Or scamming people out of millions using their computer. I don't care if it was a government computer or not.
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Um....... he IS being charged with the same offense they generally are so he is drawing the same guidelines. Its just you think hackers who go after the government are cool which makes you want to see him get off.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Um....... he IS being charged with the same offense they generally are so he is drawing the same guidelines. Its just you think hackers who go after the government are cool which makes you want to see him get off.
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No, I think they're stupid. Especially America-Hating foreigners. I simply don't believe that this 60-70 year number being tossed around is really fair. I mean, he probably won't get that amount since that's contingent on consecutive maximum sentences, but you can bet prosecutors are going to try their damnedest to make sure this guy never sees the light of day again.

It's not that I think this guy is "cool". I also don't believe in charging people for the simple posession of drugs, for example. I think we're all aware that certain things are illegal, but it's okay to disagree with the government, and what it deems illegal. Or what it deems acceptable sentencing guidelines, for that matter.

And don't tell me my opinion is irrelevant becuase it doesn't coincide with federal law.
 
NKDietrich said:
No, I think they're stupid. Especially America-Hating foreigners. I simply don't believe that this 60-70 year number being tossed around is really fair. I mean, he probably won't get that amount since that's contingent on consecutive maximum sentences, but you can bet prosecutors are going to try their damnedest to make sure this guy never sees the light of day again.
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Prosecutors can try all they would like but ultimately the sentencing is handled by the Federal sentencing guidelines and the presiding judge. I have already posted what the guidelines say for computer fraud so I really don't see why you continue on with the "he is being screwed 60-70 isn't fair" nonesense. The guidelines call for 33-41 months per charge. The max he would get if convicted of each offense separately (which he won't be) and had to serve the sentences consecutively on the highend of the guidance would be 287 months and that is assuming his lawyer absolutely sucks ass (or lets him talk in court 'cause god knows this guy knows how to help his case.....not!)

It's not that I think this guy is "cool". I also don't believe in charging people for the simple posession of drugs, for example.
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This isn't a drug possession case.

I think we're all aware that certain things are illegal, but it's okay to disagree with the government, and what it deems illegal.
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Disagree all you want but when you are in prison it doesn't matter a whole lot what you think all that matters is what the jury decided. Now if you can work some jury nullification hey you got off, but don't count on it.

Oh and breaking into the governments sensitive systems is illegal and you have to be pretty out there to think it shouldn't be (and I really doubt a jury is going to let him off).

Or what it deems acceptable sentencing guidelines, for that matter.
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That is fine you don't agree, but it doesn't change the rules or the reality you live in.

And don't tell me my opinion is irrelevant becuase it doesn't coincide with federal law.
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Well as long as you understand it is irrelevant I don't need to ;)

And I am glad you are finally starting to get what he is charged with.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
That is fine you don't agree, but it doesn't change the rules or the reality you live in.
Well as long as you understand it is irrelevant I don't need to ;)
And I am glad you are finally starting to get what he is charged with.
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So In summary: "Theres no point in discussing this case because there's no way to change whats going to happen". Why are you posting in here? And why was a discussion link given then?

Ockie said:
Isn't that the goal of every prosecutor?
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I would hope they'd be more interested in justice on a case-by-case basis, but that's not how they are taught. So instead, people get to hope they pull an incompetent prosecutor, or hope they can afford more justice than everyone else (a better lawyer.) The fact is the "justice system" is anything but. It's just like a sport really, you only get the talent you pay for, and the government has the home field advantage. The outcome isn't based on what is right or "just" (root word of justice), but whose lawyers make the bigger mistakes.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Those compromised systems had to be corrected. That was not free.
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You go in a newly built, but poorly built building. You walk around and end up falling through the floor. Does the company who owns the building blame the construction company for not making it right in the first place, or do you blame the guy who's actions caused the building to need to be repaired but he wasn't the one that originally built it wrong? If this guy didn't hack anybody wouldn't those systems still have needed to be fixed if they were setup wrong in the first place with no passwords?
 
LOL I must have hit pretty close to the mark to get people so rilled up they feel the need to send private messages filled with ad homs and personal attacks. For future reference such actions don't speak well for your credibility or character.
 
Draax said:
LOL I must have hit pretty close to the mark to get people so rilled up they feel the need to send private messages filled with ad homs and personal attacks. For future reference such actions don't speak well for your credibility or character.
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That would be an interesting topic for the pit, i mean the soapbox. It doesn't really have much to do with this thread though.
 
Ualdayan said:
You go in a newly built, but poorly built building. You walk around and end up falling through the floor. Does the company who owns the building blame the construction company for not making it right in the first place, or do you blame the guy who's actions caused the building to need to be repaired but he wasn't the one that originally built it wrong? If this guy didn't hack anybody wouldn't those systems still have needed to be fixed if they were setup wrong in the first place with no passwords?
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Your construction analogy is completely broken.

One he did not go into a newly built building, he BROKE into a newly built building. Two he did NOT fall through a floor he BROKE through a floor due to his own actions.

Once more I understand that the crowd is full of people thinks hackers are cool and/or are apologists, I get that, but it is illegal for good reason. He broke in, he broke the law, and his potential sentence via the sentencing guidelines is inline with everything else.
 
NKDietrich said:
So In summary: "Theres no point in discussing this case because there's no way to change whats going to happen". Why are you posting in here? And why was a discussion link given then?
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I was posting because you and others do not know what the sentencing guidelines are and have been incorrect. I apologize for providing the correct information.
 
Ualdayan said:
You go in a newly built, but poorly built building. You walk around and end up falling through the floor. Does the company who owns the building blame the construction company for not making it right in the first place, or do you blame the guy who's actions caused the building to need to be repaired but he wasn't the one that originally built it wrong? If this guy didn't hack anybody wouldn't those systems still have needed to be fixed if they were setup wrong in the first place with no passwords?
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Waffles.

How about a closer analogy? You have this guy who tresspasses on federal government property, starts snooping around to find the easiest locks to break, and once inside, though his own admitted carelessness, may have caused damage. Not only that, but beyond the initial and repeated tresspassings, he took it further and used the access to snoop around and (it's OK, just an accident!) allegedly disable availability for other systems.

How could this guy not be given an award for this "service?" :rolleyes:

Personally, I am interested in the case against him and I might complain if the charges or trial are not fair. But the concept that McKinnon should be given a free pass for this is pretty dumb.
 
pxc said:
That would be an interesting topic for the pit, i mean the soapbox. It doesn't really have much to do with this thread though.
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I replied to a post, previous to mine, in this very thread, and the private messages are a result of said post. The fact that my post was singled out, among such gems as the monumental ignorance spouted about those with Asperger syndrome, or the posts consisting of personal attacks, is not only disconcerting but sad.
 
I read something about having to call IT guys in to fix things after he'd hacked in. Maybe they should have had better security to start with. I think I'd be more upset with the guys who designed my system that let someone get in.
 
I don't think hackers are "cool", nor that he should get a free pass. BUT I do think he should be tried in the UK because that's where he was when he did any and all actions leading to him being a criminal, and I do think the whole "blame him for all costs" is wrong because those flaws would have needed to have been fixed anyway. Luckily he didn't break things in a major way, whereas somebody else most certainly could have using the same security flaws - should we not treat somebody a little differently depending on what they do once they get into a network? I certainly think somebody should be punished more severely if they break into something to maliciously cause widespread damage versus somebody breaking in just to look around - would you want to punish both things as if they were the same crime?
 
Paul_Johnson said:
I was posting because you and others do not know what the sentencing guidelines are and have been incorrect. I apologize for providing the correct information.
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Paul, how do you come to know so much about sentencing guidelines? :confused:
 
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