Two RAID0 setups - wanting to use one as a backup

T

Theorie

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
154
so heres the thing. i just put together a (local) file server machine. here's what its got:

+ AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor
+ ABIT KN9 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard
+ eVGA GeForce 6200 LE TC Video Card
+ ENERMAX Liberty 500W Power Supply
+ CORSAIR XMS2 512MB DDR2 800 RAM
+ Western Digital Caviar 80GB 7200RPM IDE HDD
+ (4) Western Digital Caviar 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0 HDD
+ LITE-ON 18X DVD±R Burner
+ Rosewill R6AU6-BK Case

Total cost was around $1000

I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2.

I have the 80gb drive for the operating system and applications. The (4) 500gb drives are being used in two RAID-0 arrays. This gives me a total of 2tb worth of space. I want to use 1tb of space as the active server, while the other 1tb is used for backup.

Pretty much, what is the easiest/best way to have an automatic backup from 1tb RAID-0 array to the other 1tb RAID-0 array.

Once the drives fill up, I want to be able to remove the backup 1tb drives and put them on a shelf. Then I can just pop in (2) more 500gb drives, set them up in a new RAID-0 array, format both arrays back to blank, and I'll be ready to go again.

Is there a good application for this? I hear Ghost really sucks...
 
Yeah, that is just dumb. What you should do in this situation is back up on non-raided 500G drives if you want. But do not pull a RAID0 set and not expect any future problems.
 
really?

i was running a raid-0 array on my old setup and i would pull the drives all the time...no probs
 
i was running a raid-0 array on my old setup and i would pull the drives all the time...no probs
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Clearly you were not running a raid-0 array then, you take one drive out of a 2 drive raid-0 array you've effectively lost half of every file on the computer which makes all these files corrupt.
 
Backing up to the same system is probably not a good idea, even if you are going to move drives off. The big problem here is that you're probably going to be using some chipset which may or may be available later on. Assume your motherboard dies, you buy a new motherboard, does it have the same chipset? Same bios? Will things break if you install a new driver? Using software raid might alleviate this problem, but its probably not a good idea.

Imo, you should run raid 10 (mirror+stripe) so you only get 1tb of space, and get the raid0 speeds if you really need them, plus some redundancy. If you want to back stuff up, pick up an external hd and dump things there, repeat as necessary if you don't want to clean up old backups.
 
underdone said:
Clearly you were not running a raid-0 array then, you take one drive out of a 2 drive raid-0 array you've effectively lost half of every file on the computer which makes all these files corrupt.
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CLEARLY you misunderstood what i was saying. i wasnt talking about removing ONE drive. i meant taking BOTH drives out, and re-connecting them later. never had any prob.

of course you cant take one drive out of a raid 0 array..you'll lose 1/2 your data haha

hokatichenci said:
Backing up to the same system is probably not a good idea, even if you are going to move drives off. The big problem here is that you're probably going to be using some chipset which may or may be available later on. Assume your motherboard dies, you buy a new motherboard, does it have the same chipset? Same bios? Will things break if you install a new driver? Using software raid might alleviate this problem, but its probably not a good idea.

Imo, you should run raid 10 (mirror+stripe) so you only get 1tb of space, and get the raid0 speeds if you really need them, plus some redundancy. If you want to back stuff up, pick up an external hd and dump things there, repeat as necessary if you don't want to clean up old backups.
Click to expand...

yeah, think im just gonna use the #3 & #4 HDD's as non-raid drives. no prob.
 
Theorie said:
Pretty much, what is the easiest/best way to have an automatic backup from 1tb RAID-0 array to the other 1tb RAID-0 array.

Once the drives fill up, I want to be able to remove the backup 1tb drives and put them on a shelf. Then I can just pop in (2) more 500gb drives, set them up in a new RAID-0 array, format both arrays back to blank, and I'll be ready to go again.

Is there a good application for this? I hear Ghost really sucks...
Click to expand...
What you're talking about is RAID 0+1... Quite a few of the onboard RAID controllers support it. Essentially, it is using a RAID 0 array to mirror another RAID 0 array using RAID 1 (hope that made sense). It isn't the greatest method to back up data, but you do have at least a small amount of fault tolerance should you lose a drive out of either of the arrays.

I'm not sure how it would be done, but theoretically, once you fill 1TB of space, you should be able to "break" the RAID 1 array temporarily, remove the drives, stick in a couple new ones, and recreate your array. Then you can go from there. Of course, with the drives you removed, you would have to label them as to which one was on which channel in your array and you probably wouldn't be able to read them using a different RAID controller (so you'd pretty much have to keep them around with your current motherboard if you wanted them to still be of use in the future). But hey, in theory it should work (of course, don't take my word as gospel).
 
Joe Fission said:
What you're talking about is RAID 0+1...
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No, he is not talking about RAID 0+1 or RAID 10. In his scheme is a virus decides to wipe "volume x" his `backup' won't be wiped automatically, which would be the case with RAID 10/ 01. Also, a single file-system error would not hose the OP's `backup' either, once again something that would take the RAID 10/01 down.

I know that I must sound like a broken records: RAID is not backup. While the OP's scheme had some flaws in it, it was a bit more resilient w.r.t. software issues than a RAID 10/01 solution.

All that aside, I would not use a RAID-0 volume as a backup. If Theorie is in need to reduce system downtime caused by the backup process, using a RAID-0 volume to increase backup speed would make sense, but generally the data ought to be committed to some other media afterwards.
 
drizzt81 said:
No, he is not talking about RAID 0+1 or RAID 10. In his scheme is a virus decides to wipe "volume x" his `backup' won't be wiped automatically, which would be the case with RAID 10/ 01. Also, a single file-system error would not hose the OP's `backup' either, once again something that would take the RAID 10/01 down.
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Sorry, my mistake.... sounded an awful lot like RAID 0+1 to me though. I stand corrected.
 
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