Two DOA PSU's in a row?

[shonuf]

Alright, made some changes to my system (new HD, memory, PSU, and hopefully vid card) and everything was working fine until I got to the PSU.

I've got a Compaq Evo W4000 desktop, with the original 250W PSU. New vid card needs 450W PSU, thus the change. Nothing else is different from stock on this machine.

Anyways, I am a long ways from anywhere I can just walk to get a PSU, so I ordered one, a Kingwin AP-450. (also says "PCI Express" on the box, if it matters) The first one I got I plugged in, nothing. I did as much testing and research as I could, to include the "forced run" of the power supply. That didn't work either. Hooked the entire computer up correctly, hooked only the MoBo connectors up, same deal. The documentation for either PSU is pretty poor, so I wasn't able to compare the connector pinouts to make sure there was no difference. Of course with the OEM PSU, the thing fires up fine, which is how I'm writing this.

So I had them send me another one, exact same thing, and short of the forced run test, (I have not tried that on this one, but with no power at all coming in I can see, and it working with the old PUS, I don't see why this test is even necessary) this one acts exactly the same. Neither box appeared to be damaged when received, the PSU's were packed well, but pretty much same result.

I notice that Kingwin PSU's don't have a favorable reputation here, if the consensus is that it is simply the power supply, is there one that can be at least marginably recommended in the $50-75 price range that I can exchange at tigerdirect.com?

The main thing I *don't* want to do is send this one back without absolutely confirming there is nothing more to test. I believe that the forced run test should be the absolute end all test, but it sure seems hard to believe that two of these, brand new out of the box, have the exact same problem. Maybe it isn't to those who deal with this on a day to day basis? I searched as much as I could for reviews, couldn't find much until I logged on here, too late apparently.

Any ideas/comments are appreciated, I just want to test out my new vid card!

Thanks

 

[davidhammock200]

Jump: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=118964

Test: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=137886

 

[shonuf]

Yeah, I can't/won't test with a multimeter. A few thousand miles away from home, and no access to my electrical stuff. Too cheap to head out and buy/try to find another one when I have a perfectly good one at home.

I guess I can try the jump test on this PSU, I just don't see the results being any different than the first PSU since I get nothing from the PC or PSU when I hit the switch.

Compared to some of the "scary" photos I've seen on here of barebone PSU internals, this one actually looks pretty beefy...since it has the large clear fan on top, I can see the internals pretty well. I still always find it hard to believe that two of anything in a row are bound to be bad, even though I know it happens.

Appreciate the response!

 

[jonnyGURU]

The first one I got I plugged in, nothing.

I guess I can try the jump test on this PSU, I just don't see the results being any different than the first PSU since I get nothing from the PC or PSU when I hit the switch.

How do you figure? If you jumper the PSU apart from the rest of the build and the fan starts spinning, that's a pretty good indicator that something else may be foobar!

The documentation for either PSU is pretty poor, so I wasn't able to compare the connector pinouts to make sure there was no difference.

Most PSU's have little to none documentation. If it's an ATX PSU, it's standard and should have standard connectors and wires. The PSU that should come into question is the Compaq since it was installed in the PC and Comaq has been known to use proprietary connectors in the past. Just match up the colors. Orange is 3.3V. Yellow is 12V and red is 5V. If they don't match up on the 20-pin, then your Compaq doesn't use a standard ATX power supply.

 

[shonuf]

How do you figure? If you jumper the PSU apart from the rest of the build and the fan starts spinning, that's a pretty good indicator that something else may be foobar!

Well, because this one doesn't work either, when I know that the computer runs fine with another PSU. I don't have an attitude, don't take it wrong, I'm just not having fun waiting two weeks to get parts and having them either stolen en route or not working when they get here.

Yeah, I knew the Compaq proprietary stuff, but that was what made me frustrated with the wiring diagrams...the Kingwin didn't match up to the Compaq color-wise, and the jump test instructions I found mention wire colors that the *Kingwin* PSU didn't have. Besides, the crazy stuff the PSU makers apparently do (lying, incorrect specs, etc) I'm not sure I trust that the wiring colors and pinout are right. Which is why a multimeter would be nice, even if the jump test shows the PSU as a failure.

I did notice that where I purchased this PSU from no longer sells them, they just stopped, I wonder if there was a bad batch or something...

 

[iRoNeTiK]

Jump: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=118964

Test: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=137886

do you have that saved as a text file on your computer? lol

 

[jonnyGURU]

Well, because this one doesn't work either, when I know that the computer runs fine with another PSU. I don't have an attitude, don't take it wrong, I'm just not having fun waiting two weeks to get parts and having them either stolen en route or not working when they get here.

Yeah, I knew the Compaq proprietary stuff, but that was what made me frustrated with the wiring diagrams...the Kingwin didn't match up to the Compaq color-wise, and the jump test instructions I found mention wire colors that the *Kingwin* PSU didn't have. Besides, the crazy stuff the PSU makers apparently do (lying, incorrect specs, etc) I'm not sure I trust that the wiring colors and pinout are right. Which is why a multimeter would be nice, even if the jump test shows the PSU as a failure.

I did notice that where I purchased this PSU from no longer sells them, they just stopped, I wonder if there was a bad batch or something...

No.. You ARE having an attitude. Sorry. But you came to a forum for advice and then don't take any of it.

1. The PSU doesn't do ANYTHING when plugged into the Compaq. But if you jumper the green and black on the PSU, you won't need a DMM to see if the fan spins. If the fan spins when jumpered but not when plugged into the motherboard, then the problem may not be the power supply

2. ATX is a STANDARD. That means the Kingwin, being an ATX power supply, should have all of it's wires in the same place as any ATX power supply. If you match up wires with the Compaq PSU and some don't match (just talking about the 3.3V orange, 12V yellow and 5V red since the -12V and -5V may be a different color or void) then your distrust is misdirected at Kingwin and should be aimed towards Compaq. The Compaq PSU may be proprietary and there's nothing wrong with the PSU and you can buy 20 of them and until you realize what you're dealing with you're going to say they are all "DOA."

For the record, a diagram of this pin out can be found here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/atx/

3. Your distrust is making you color blind. I have two of the Kingwins, a 500W and 620W Absolute Power, and the Kingwin DOES have the wires that you need to jumper the PSU. Green is the turn on and any black is ground. The turn on lead is third wire in from the edge and it's green and there's a ground on either side of it. Jump it.

4: Google is your friend!

I have a compaq presario 5000 model 5SPXE1 with a defective power supply P/N HP-U250XC3, the 24 pin PS and the motherboard P/N 246858.001 does not conform to the ATX specification. I took the PS apart and all the wires (24) going to the internal boards of the PS were labled at the point of termination. I have compiled a list defining wire number, color and function. I have not yet modified a standard 24 pin power supply, because
there are issues with certain functions I have not
been able to cross reference. Maybe others will be able to figure out the PWR-ON and PWR-OK pins.
Pin- color- Signal
1 brown +3V
2 brown +3v
3 black com
4 red +5V
5 black com
6 red +5V
7 gray aux com
8 no connection
9 green +5V aux
10 orange +12V
11 pink +3V aux
12 white/red fan
13 brown +3V
14 blue -12V
15 black com
16 white (on stby)
17 black com
18 black com
19 black com
20 brown +3V
21 red +5v
22 red +5v
23 brown 3VRS (small dia wire)
24 white/blue fan sink

I think I fried 3 3rd party power supplies. I have a Compaq Presario 5000. Power supply is 230 or 235, whatever it came with. I've got enough junk in there that I think I corrupted a system file because of too little power. In the famous words of Tim "The Toolman" Taylor, I needed MORE POWER. So I bought a Dynex 350W and 2 others, and none of them worked.

I realize they're talking about Presario 5000's and you have an Evo 4000, but I couldn't find much on the Evo 4000 other than it having a funky PSU size. But it makes the point that Compaq PSU's can be proprietary and you could be killing these PSU's by hooking them up to your proprietary board.

 

[shonuf]

You talk about "standards" on a forum where I could spend five minutes and find multiple outright lies propagated by PSU makers/sellers. I don't put much credence in "standards" when the industry has no use for even plain old honesty. Pardon me for that.

In any case, here's some pics to chew on:

http://community.webshots.com/user/shonuf1

Please take a moment to find the green wire that you insist exists on my Kingwin MoBo connector. Apparently "standards" really aren't that? Yes, I'm smart enough to compare pinouts, but when wiring colors can't even be correct/standardized, do I really expect that the pinout is correct without some additional testing? Whoops, happened to short out the wrong wire guessing!

If anyone cares, without taking the PSU case totally apart and voiding any sort of warranty, I was able to take a couple of shots of the internals as well and they are at that link. Certainly *looks* better on the inside than some of the other PSU's I've seen on here.

I didn't come to the forum asking for advice then ignoring it. The first PSU failed the jumper test, this one does not.

As other advice I've seen posted has suggested, it's better to just ditch this piece of Compaq junk and build another box.

I appreciate your posts and time spent both helping me and others, your site is quite informative.

 

[davidhammock200]

do you have that saved as a text file on your computer? lol

Doesn't everyone!

 

[jonnyGURU]

You talk about "standards" on a forum where I could spend five minutes and find multiple outright lies propagated by PSU makers/sellers. I don't put much credence in "standards" when the industry has no use for even plain old honesty. Pardon me for that.

LOL... I know what you're saying, but standard ATX connectors follow the ATX standard. What you're talking about has NOTHING to do with standards. There's no "standard" that tells any company how they're to label any given power supply. That would take some sort of governing body and an approval process.

In any case, here's some pics to chew on:

http://community.webshots.com/user/shonuf1

And since that is a STANDARD ATX power supply (where your Compaq may not be) you can pull up ANY diagram of an ATX connector (like those provided by myself and Dave) and find that the turn on lead is where that gray wire is is your main ATX connector.

Please take a moment to find the green wire that you insist exists on my Kingwin MoBo connector. Apparently "standards" really aren't that? Yes, I'm smart enough to compare pinouts, but when wiring colors can't even be correct/standardized, do I really expect that the pinout is correct without some additional testing? Whoops, happened to short out the wrong wire guessing! [/quuote]

I never claimed that the wire colors had to be standard. Typically, only the 3.3V, 5V and 12V are. The pin out on an ATX power supply, which that Kingwin is, IS standard.

Furthermore, if you did short out the wrong pins it wouldn't matter since that connector isn't live until you short out the correct pins. In other words: Nothing would happen.

If anyone cares, without taking the PSU case totally apart and voiding any sort of warranty, I was able to take a couple of shots of the internals as well and they are at that link. Certainly *looks* better on the inside than some of the other PSU's I've seen on here.

I didn't come to the forum asking for advice then ignoring it. The first PSU failed the jumper test, this one does not.

We can only hope that plugging it into a proprietary Compaq motherboard didn't fry the PSU.

As other advice I've seen posted has suggested, it's better to just ditch this piece of Compaq junk and build another box.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that advice. Even if you're not inclined to build from scratch, refurb AMD Athlon64 powered eMachines can be bought for $300 that happen to be ALL standard parts.

 

[davidhammock200]

it's better to just ditch this piece of Compaq junk and build another box

Good idea!

 

[shonuf]

Yes, the Compaq PSU connector is, at least based on wiring color alone, quite different than what the ATX PSU is. Based on what is what on an ATX connector, it looks like there are some similarities.

Just to play with this thing, since I have no other option at this point but to wait at least a month to get a new setup...comparing the ATX and Compaq wiring you posted, does it look possible to just swap pins to make it work?

A couple of the pins *seem* to be entirely different on the Compaq:
Pin- color- Signal
1 brown +3V
2 brown +3v
3 black com
4 red +5V
5 black com
6 red +5V
7 gray aux com *Different*
8 no connection *Different*
9 green +5V aux
10 orange +12V
11 pink +3V aux
12 white/red fan *Different*
13 brown +3V
14 blue -12V
15 black com
16 white (on stby) *Different* (or is it actually the same, stby meaning waiting for the button to be pushed?)
17 black com
18 black com
19 black com
20 brown +3V
21 red +5v
22 red +5v
23 brown 3VRS (small dia wire)
24 white/blue fan sink *Different*

I marked the ones above that are entirely different, at least by description, and notice that the Compaq only has 6 grounds as opposed to the ATX 8. That's an easy fix, as is re-pinning the connector itself.

I suppose it's not worth the time or aggravation, but is this possible?

Bah, I like playing with things, but this would be near pointless, potentially a bit costly. I'll suffer with this thing another month and then build another box using the good pieces I bought for this one.