Two Diablo IV Expansions in Development at Blizzard

I agree. I just type a lot because I like to be detailed in my opinion. One thing I've learned from being on forums, Reddit, etc. is if you leave out minor details, even if by accident, or if you were just assuming and trying to keep it short, people will point that out and use it as a counter-argument. During the work week, which for me is Tuesday through Saturday, I tend to have little to no playing time so I spend my time before work, and sometimes after work if my wife is asleep or not home, on message boards. On my days off is when I go ham on play time, so I seldomly come around these parts.
Plus you really like to type a lot and hang out on message boards ? People that pic apart posts to be used as counter arguments are the people you should be ignoring not typing out long things and wasting your time. My Opinion of course.
 
so much debate over gaming history in this thread when the bottom line is D4 is polished grandma shit and you shouldn't pay for shit or DLCs made for shit

D3 at least had a good HC mode and juicy drama surrounding the AH and difficulty. After DI it's just shameful to say anything positive about blizzard though.
 
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so much debate over gaming history in this thread when the bottom line is D4 is polished grandma shit and you shouldn't pay for shit or DLCs made for shit

D3 at least had a good HC mode and juicy drama surrounding the AH and difficulty. After DI it's just shameful to say anything positive about blizzard though.
The fact that so many paid to play early will only make game devs push out more underdeveloped S***. People who FOMO into stuff can't see that they're hurting the future for everyone including themselves. In the past when games had physical copies and no instant reviewers over the internet, it forced people to gamble into buying things early. That much I understand. But I can't understand why in this day and age why people are willing to commit so blindly into things and then savagely defend their bad purchases. This extend beyond games. Hardware has been hit hard by such a phenomenon. Intel grew complicit and allowed AMD Ryzen to eat away at its shares. Nvidia's 40-Series is the latest batch of garbage that plague the market. People just can't seem to help themselves.
 
Minecraft is not, and never has been, free (except that there have been a few rare deals, like when they introduced the Windows version, I think you could get the Java one for free, for a time.)
Minecraft is also $30 or however much it is now. I paid $15 for the game back when it was beta. Also the game didn't have micro-transactions until after Microsoft bought them, which many players predicted that an in game shop would be added.

How do you feel about cosmetic items that are *only* available in-shop (that is, you can't get them in game)?
Either way it's terrible stuff.
I wouldn't exactly call metacritic reviews "professional." lol
I wouldn't call "professional" game reviewers... professional. You see this same problem with movies where "professionals" love it and yet the people hated it, and vice versa. If the people hate it, then they hate it, and nothing a "professional" does will change peoples minds.

I know they're not the same thing, but let's say Blizz decided to pull the in-game market, it would still have the same reputation for a while.
Think about how many people gave the game bad reviews because of the micro-transactions vs the amount of people who are ok with it.
Same with bad, or unoptimized games, same reputation until people are convinced its fixed. Just look at CP2077, it has a "mostly positive" review on Steam, and the game has been fine for at least a year now.
I played the game a month ago and I can't say it's problem free. I also can't say it's a good game as well.
Every other triple AAA release outside of anything "Capcom" has a mixed rating, or worse. Tell me, if you're a prospective buyer of a product and you see it has a mixed review, would you buy it?
I go by how much hype the game has before I try it out.
Again, same thing I said above, badly optimized games will carry that stigma for awhile, while optional micro-transactions that don't impact gameplay will eventually get overlooked.
If people say it impacts the game then it impacts the game. You can spin it however you want but if it didn't impact the game then people wouldn't complain.
You say that as if that $70 didn't already include a meaty game. I can understand if you bought a game and it was like maybe 15-20 hours of content and then a company turned around and tried to sell you on expansions and DLC for $20-$30, stuff that should have been in the base game, in that situation I'd gladly agree with you. In this case, people are going to get an easy 100+ hours of gameplay out of D4 just as it is, and Blizzards track record with expansions is pretty damn good, sure they have a few misses, but most have been solid and worth the price.
100+ hours of gameplay is subjective. Many games today, especially open world games take into account traveling and repeat quests. Especially Diablo type games which repeat the entire game over and over and consider that gameplay. Also, DLC and or expansions have the effect of alienating players from those who did or didn't buy it. So either you buy the DLC/expansion or quit the game because you won't be able to play with others unless you do. This is a problem in Souls games as well, since new DLC tends to add another section of the game with new loot, and in a PVP scenario that will give other players an edge.
Again, you're acting as if the in-game shop is this huge bad thing, it's not.
It's bad when you pay for the game. It's also bad in that no game that offers cosmetics allows players to make their own skins which is something that we used to do a lot before micro-transactions took hold. Minecraft still allows players to make skins but Minecraft is also over 10 years old. Lots of animations showing what happens when players see the cosmetic micro-transactions entering the game and changing it for the worst. Remember, it's only cosmetic right?

Literally, it's all optional crap to make your character look a certain way, it has absolutely no bearing on the in-game gameplay, so I don't see how it's a problem to the game itself.
Then let me make my own skins for the game, if it doesn't matter.
I said it before, and I'll say it again--people are acting as if everything designed for a game should be included with the base-price of the game, like Blizzard isn't a business that's trying to pay it's bills, fund new games, support current games with updated content,
Drinking breast milk. Creating the Cosby room. Cubical crawling and of course Bobby's Yacht.
all while trying to please investors. How are they supposed to manage that? Unicorn farts and rainbows?
Why would anyone care about their investors? As a customer we literally fight with investors because we are no longer the main source of income for corporations. This is why everything has gotten worse since Reagan made stock buy backs legal.
I'll admit, Blizzard is probably my second favorite game developer of all time, right behind the original Squaresoft before they became Square Enix. So I'll admit a bit of bias here,
I was a fan of them too, before Activision bought them.
That's a very niche, and obscure pay-to-win scheme that requires you to be able to get into an ICC group, convince them to prolong the Blood Queen Lana'thel fight long enough for you to absorb the essences. In other words, that's borderline retarded, especially if you're at that level of content, chances are you play a lot, and probably already have a lot of gold, and probably have already farmed a vast majority of the items need, if you already haven't gotten help from the guild you're in.
I'm talking about Primordial Saronite which is going to be the biggest limiting factor in getting Shadowmourne. Getting a bunch of people to work with you to get the boss mechanics done to make the weapon is going to be the least of your problems.
I read about WotLK Classic's economy, people were saying that gold was so abundant that shit was going for outrageous prices because people just had so much gold.
Blizzard never banned the bots except in waves. Botting is extremely profitable.

When's the last time you played WoW?
Literally the #1 Ret Paladin in WOTLK, by rank. Actually #3, but raiding has been fucked since D4 release.
My last time playing it was in February. My statement above about how simple it was to make gold with a bit of effort doesn't require the amount of grind you're implying it would take. I suck at making gold and saving it, but I was never poor per-se, I'd always fluctuate between 10k gold and 200k gold like it was nothing, and all I did was sell extra mats from mining or herbalism, which I probably spent 20-30 minutes a day doing while bs'ing with my guildies on Discord while we were putting together a mythic plus group, and the occasional item I'd craft trying to level up a profession. When I left out, they implemented a work order system where people were making 4k-12k gold just to push a button if they had the ability to craft what you were needing. Gold is so easy to make in WoW, so no, it's not a grind unless you just make bad decision after bad decision. As I stated above, and you confirmed, the token was brought in for people who want to play, but don't want to pay.
Most people in my guild buy gold. Pretty sure my raid leader sells it as well since he's done a shit ton of GDKP's. They won't touch WoW tokens since they get less gold for their money. They use dummy accounts to avoid getting banned. It wouldn't take much investigating on who's buying gold, but nobody at Blizz is ever going to look into it.
 
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This right here is a key point. As the consumer, why should I care about the poor wittle investors? Why should I defend corporatism? It just seems to be making everything shittier.
As far as I'm concerned, if you're keeping the lights on while paying your employee's and making a healthy profit, then that's all that matters. Shareholders want "infinite" profits, which from a video game company is absurd. The only reason Blizzard is still part of Activision is the potential for unlimited profits, which has drastically diminished over the years. This is why World of Warcraft has drastically dropped in active subscriptions and why Overwatch 2 is losing features, because Activision demands more. The only reason this works because a lot of people like 1_rick who are fans of the company, don't realize that most of the people who used to make games like Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2 have left the company a long time ago. What you have is a name that Activision is riding hard on while offering you games with less value over time. It's not like the stock market hasn't nearly destroyed gaming in the past, as anyone who knows about the whole situation with Sierra knows that Blizzard was involved and almost faded away from existence, as well as a number of notable games like Half Life. The only reason mico-transactions work is because the few people who are willing to put up with it are also allowing whales to pay far more into the game than the games purchase. I don't even think that's the case anymore as we've seen Overwatch go from a loot box hell game to a micro-transaction hell game that isn't gaining any more traction and so the new feature to OverWatch 2 the PVE mode was removed. We saw this with Diablo 3 where they added an in game auction with real money, which they quickly removed because it destroyed the game. If Diablo 4 is or isn't a good game I wouldn't know, but this being an Activision-Blizzard game I do expect micro-transactions and I expect them to get much worse once sales for the game peaks and starts to decline, because again the shareholders expect infinite growth which is never possible.
 
You've got quite the active imagination, but next time, have the courage to @ me.
Firstly, I'm lazy. Secondly, I knew you'd see it. It wasn't meant to be offensive, even though it sure seems like you took it that way. Fact is most if not all the people that made the games for Blizzard have went their ways. Ghostcrawler aka Greg Street is one of the many employee's who went to Riot due to the direction Blizzard was going. It's not like there's this single guy working there with a vision of how the games should be made, like Hideo Kojima. To praise Blizzard like it was 20 years ago is ignoring a lot of changes that went on in that company. People like you forget that the company name is just that, a name. Nobody who made Diablo 2 or World of Warcraft still works for Activisoin-Blizzard to this day. The reason Activision bought Blizzard is to ride that name as best as they can, devolving the games into micro-transactions because that's what companies do when they buy other companies. The exception is Microsoft because soon they'll own all of Activision Blizzard, which from my standpoint is a good thing because the point of Microsoft buying them was to bring their games to Xbox, probably exclusively. Which I'm a huge Bobby Kotick hater, and can't wait to see his ass booted out. That says a lot consider I'm a Linux guy and Microsoft isn't exactly my friend.
 
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Minecraft is also $30 or however much it is now. I paid $15 for the game back when it was beta. Also the game didn't have micro-transactions until after Microsoft bought them, which many players predicted that an in game shop would be added.


Either way it's terrible stuff.

I wouldn't call "professional" game reviewers... professional. You see this same problem with movies where "professionals" love it and yet the people hated it, and vice versa. If the people hate it, then they hate it, and nothing a "professional" does will change peoples minds.


Think about how many people gave the game bad reviews because of the micro-transactions vs the amount of people who are ok with it.

I played the game a month ago and I can't say it's problem free. I also can't say it's a good game as well.

I go by how much hype the game has before I try it out.

If people say it impacts the game then it impacts the game. You can spin it however you want but if it didn't impact the game then people wouldn't complain.

100+ hours of gameplay is subjective. Many games today, especially open world games take into account traveling and repeat quests. Especially Diablo type games which repeat the entire game over and over and consider that gameplay. Also, DLC and or expansions have the effect of alienating players from those who did or didn't buy it. So either you buy the DLC/expansion or quit the game because you won't be able to play with others unless you do. This is a problem in Souls games as well, since new DLC tends to add another section of the game with new loot, and in a PVP scenario that will give other players an edge.

It's bad when you pay for the game. It's also bad in that no game that offers cosmetics allows players to make their own skins which is something that we used to do a lot before micro-transactions took hold. Minecraft still allows players to make skins but Minecraft is also over 10 years old. Lots of animations showing what happens when players see the cosmetic micro-transactions entering the game and changing it for the worst. Remember, it's only cosmetic right?


Then let me make my own skins for the game, if it doesn't matter.

Drinking breast milk. Creating the Cosby room. Cubical crawling and of course Bobby's Yacht.

Why would anyone care about their investors? As a customer we literally fight with investors because we are no longer the main source of income for corporations. This is why everything has gotten worse since Reagan made stock buy backs legal.

I was a fan of them too, before Activision bought them.

I'm talking about Primordial Saronite which is going to be the biggest limiting factor in getting Shadowmourne. Getting a bunch of people to work with you to get the boss mechanics done to make the weapon is going to be the least of your problems.

Blizzard never banned the bots except in waves. Botting is extremely profitable.


Literally the #1 Ret Paladin in WOTLK, by rank. Actually #3, but raiding has been fucked since D4 release.

Most people in my guild buy gold. Pretty sure my raid leader sells it as well since he's done a shit ton of GDKP's. They won't touch WoW tokens since they get less gold for their money. They use dummy accounts to avoid getting banned. It wouldn't take much investigating on who's buying gold, but nobody at Blizz is ever going to look into it.

Completely agree with all your takes except the RMAH since it leaves a lot of control in the player base. But im the extreme minority that actually really enjoyed the RMAH. Progressing in HC where there was no RMAH and playing on SC just to play the RMAH was quite a bit of fun for me personally. Then they nerfed the difficulty and i beat hc a day after and removed the RMAH and I was done with D3 forever.

Most people don't seem to realize when a game has micro transactions that are non cosmetic the entire premise of the company becomes catching whales - i knew a few people that worked on mobile games- literally designed the games to catch whales.
Microsoft has some pretty solid common sense people in it these days so it was really the only hope of ever seeing an SC or Diablo game coming out in the future that isn't garbage but that's going to be like catching a falling star at this point.

Frankly the timing of D4 release was lucky - consumers still over paying for shit while student loans paused, no games out fitting a similar niche. So i can see why people bought it even though it's a joke. They also managed to wait long enough for the whole DI stink to dilute a bit - ill never forgive and never forget that POS though.

Also in all of your guys' long discourse here you never mentioned early access games. These have been both a blessing and a curse for game development imo. Hopefully it evolves in the right direction but it seems to encourage creativity but discourages a great new game from being fully fleshed out. For example Zenith is an amazing VR RPG but had 0 endgame and now the game is stuck in the mud in terms of player base. Zenith did prove that down the road a diablo clone in VR has huge potential though. Revita is a solid game that sort of plays like Diablo - imo the Diablo style games mostly evolved into rogue-lite games - i personally consider games like Returnal and Revita to be Diablo style games although most would disagree.
 
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Completely agree with all your takes except the RMAH since it leaves a lot of control in the player base. But im the extreme minority that actually really enjoyed the RMAH. Progressing in HC where there was no RMAH and playing on SC just to play the RMAH was quite a bit of fun for me personally. Then they nerfed the difficulty and i beat hc a day after and removed the RMAH and I was done with D3 forever.
If you played Diablo 3 for the Real Money Auction House then are you're not having fun, unless fun for you is making money. If that's the case then there's this thing called a job that'll pay you way more for your time. Auction houses that use fictional game currency work just fine.
Most people don't seem to realize when a game has micro transactions that are non cosmetic the entire premise of the company becomes catching whales - i knew a few people that worked on mobile games- literally designed the games to catch whales.
Microsoft has some pretty solid common sense people in it these days so it was really the only hope of ever seeing an SC or Diablo game coming out in the future that isn't garbage but that's going to be like catching a falling star at this point.
Cosmetic or not, it's all about catching whales. The non cosmetic ones are just trying to catch the biggest whales, like Diablo Immortal.
Also in all of your guys' long discourse here you never mentioned early access games. These have been both a blessing and a curse for game development imo. Hopefully it evolves in the right direction but it seems to encourage creativity but discourages a great new game from being fully fleshed out. For example Zenith is an amazing VR RPG but had 0 endgame and now the game is stuck in the mud in terms of player base. Zenith did prove that down the road a diablo clone in VR has huge potential though. Revita is a solid game that sort of plays like Diablo - imo the Diablo style games mostly evolved into rogue-lite games - i personally consider games like Returnal and Revita to be Diablo style games although most would disagree.
No point mentioning Early Access games because they don't really fit the Diablo 4 discussion. There's plenty of good alternatives to Diablo, like Hades comes to mind. So far I've heard good things about Diablo 4, but I'm still waiting from reviews from sources I deem worth my time. Diablo 4 is somewhat open world and that's interesting. The problem I have is that I'm sure Blizzard wants people to repeat parts of the game over and over until people are bored and then an expansion is released. That expansion will likely have a Paladin or Crusader and that's probably when I'll get into Diablo 4. Plus I'm sure the price of Diablo 4 will go down from $70 at some point. Not like I'm not already enjoying other games like TOTK.
 
I know Games as a service alot of people don't like.. But sadly there is ALOT of people that do like it.. You aren't the target audience cause you aren't a whale of money... this is all they care about.
 
I know Games as a service alot of people don't like.. But sadly there is ALOT of people that do like it.. You aren't the target audience cause you aren't a whale of money... this is all they care about.
Most people who play games aren't aware of what a Live Service Game is. Even if they are, the idea of a game that gets constant updates doesn't sound bad. The problem is when the game gets an update that makes changes that aren't in your favor unless you're a whale. There should be a law that a game can't just change how the micro-transaction system works after you purchased the game, because that's what Blizzard does, a lot. It's akin to buying a car with heated seats, but then finding out that an update to the software has taken that feature away and now you must pay a monthly fee to reactivate something you already had. That's the problem with Live Service Games.

 
You aren't the target audience cause you aren't a whale of money.
The funny thing is neither are a lot of "whales", especially for mobile gacha games.

Usually normal people with poor impulse control who blow every extra cent after the bills are paid, and sometimes not even that line is made.
 
The funny thing is neither are a lot of "whales", especially for mobile gacha games.

Usually normal people with poor impulse control who blow every extra cent after the bills are paid, and sometimes not even that line is made.
They call it the Lipstick recession. Micro-transactions kinda meet that cheap impulse purchase. "The lipstick effect is the theory that when facing an economic crisis consumers will be more willing to buy less costly luxury goods.[1] " I've seen that lots of time in World and Warcraft when this guy buys all the mounts and then suddenly vanishes, then months later he appears again but you find out he was homeless and was bouncing around looking for a place to stay. He also found a way to pay for WoW too.
 
They call it the Lipstick recession. Micro-transactions kinda meet that cheap impulse purchase. "The lipstick effect is the theory that when facing an economic crisis consumers will be more willing to buy less costly luxury goods.[1] " I've seen that lots of time in World and Warcraft when this guy buys all the mounts and then suddenly vanishes, then months later he appears again but you find out he was homeless and was bouncing around looking for a place to stay. He also found a way to pay for WoW too.
chatgpt explains it better

"The theory behind this effect is that when facing economic uncertainty, consumers will be more likely to buy less costly luxury goods instead of more expensive items. For example, instead of buying a new dress or a pair of shoes, a consumer might buy a new lipstick. This allows them to experience the psychological benefits of treating themselves without the financial strain of a larger purchase." chatgpt4

interesting how it really walks the line of flat out wiki plagiarism though
 
The funny thing is neither are a lot of "whales", especially for mobile gacha games.

Usually normal people with poor impulse control who blow every extra cent after the bills are paid, and sometimes not even that line is made.
Very fair.. and 100% true as well.. ;)
 
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