TWC Residential vs Business Class

[wavewerx]

I currently have TWC Road Runner 10mb (plus boost) connection at my house. We constantly have the connection dropped or have to reboot our modem / router to stay on the internet. (Quick not about the router - we're using a WRT54G unit now but when the internet dies, or slows to a crawl, I can't login to the unit to see what's going on. We previously used a PFSense box that I had built but I swapped it out with the WRT54G to prove to the roomies that it wasn't my home brew router's fault!)

TWC RR have come out and replaced our modem, replaced the lines up to the street, and given us credit on half a months worth of service but it continues to drop. Calling Tech Support like we're supposed to to tell them of the problem is becoming an annoying chore.

I really believe that either the modem or the network (outside of my house / LAN) are the cause of the issues. 3 Macbooks, 1 Laptop (torrenting) 2 desktops (one torrents all day), HTPC (online streaming), XBox 360 + Live, PS3 + PSN, Wii + Online, BB Bold on WiFi and we have SC2 LAN party's on weekends with about 2 other guys who bring their machines over.

Any one have any experience switching to TWC Business Class? Can you even do this at all living in a neighborhood? How flexible are the prices and setup fees? Do I need a dedicated server closet for all the equipment or are they just going to give me a beefer modem and promote my traffic's priority now that I'm 'Business Class?'

Just looking for some direction from other [H]'ers!

 

[Cmustang87]

How many times have they replaced the modem? Myself and 3 friends had the EXACT same issue you were having with a 10Mb down + Boost as you. Was it the dark gray modem? When our modems got switched out, EVERY one of our issues were resolved and it boosted us to nearly a 30mbps connection with about 1mbps up.

If they only replaced the modem once you may want to have them try another one, or purchase your own and have them get it online for you. Best of luck, but TW Business is quite a bit more pricey than home. YMMV, and it's your wallet.. not mine.

 

[wavewerx]

How many times have they replaced the modem? Myself and 3 friends had the EXACT same issue you were having with a 10Mb down + Boost as you. Was it the dark gray modem? When our modems got switched out, EVERY one of our issues were resolved and it boosted us to nearly a 30mbps connection with about 1mbps up.

If they only replaced the modem once you may want to have them try another one, or purchase your own and have them get it online for you. Best of luck, but TW Business is quite a bit more pricey than home. YMMV, and it's your wallet.. not mine.

Thanks for the reply. Original we had the dark grey one you're probably talking about. Now we have a similarly designed modem - blue - but from a different company - Ubee? The first one being Ambit. We'll try the modem swap again but I really don't want to buy my own at this point unless it will for sure clear up the issue.

 

[gimp]

(Quick not about the router - we're using a WRT54G unit now but when the internet dies, or slows to a crawl, I can't login to the unit to see what's going on. We previously used a PFSense box that I had built but I swapped it out with the WRT54G to prove to the roomies that it wasn't my home brew router's fault!)

when it dies or slows to a crawl, you can't log in to what "unit?" the router or modem?

 

[Cmustang87]

Thanks for the reply. Original we had the dark grey one you're probably talking about. Now we have a similarly designed modem - blue - but from a different company - Ubee? The first one being Ambit. We'll try the modem swap again but I really don't want to buy my own at this point unless it will for sure clear up the issue.

I won't be able to verify the previous modem I had, but I will check on the modem they replaced it with. They also redid the coax jack in my office with a new coax cable. I will let you know what modem is currently there and working great. The one I had before could have been like a bluish (i'm partially colorblind) grey, like a gunmetal.

 

[wavewerx]

I won't be able to verify the previous modem I had, but I will check on the modem they replaced it with. They also redid the coax jack in my office with a new coax cable. I will let you know what modem is currently there and working great. The one I had before could have been like a bluish (i'm partially colorblind) grey, like a gunmetal.

Google Image Search of the modem I used to have.

Google Image Search of the modem I have now.

when it dies or slows to a crawl, you can't log in to what "unit?" the router or modem?

The router. I know the ip address of the unit and the appropriate credentials but I'm not even prompted to enter them, My browser just spins until it fails - 'Web Page Not Responding' or something to that effect. The pfSense rig never needed to be rebooted and I plan on reintroducing it to the network sometime again soon.

 

[Cmustang87]

Google Image Search of the modem I used to have.

Google Image Search of the modem I have now.



The router. I know the ip address of the unit and the appropriate credentials but I'm not even prompted to enter them, My browser just spins until it fails - 'Web Page Not Responding' or something to that effect.

I had the exact same problem with the Linksys WRT120N. It would not let me log in until I rebooted it.

I had the top right modem before and believe it was replaced with the second page modem that you linked. I will be 100% sure when I get home that my new one is Ubee.

EDIT: I did not have to replace the router, I thought for hte longest time that's what I was going to have to do. I went through 2 or 3 on site TWC technicians before it was done.

 

[gimp]

The router. I know the ip address of the unit and the appropriate credentials but I'm not even prompted to enter them, My browser just spins until it fails - 'Web Page Not Responding' or something to that effect. The pfSense rig never needed to be rebooted and I plan on reintroducing it to the network sometime again soon.

this is a router issue
you should be able to log in to the router even if it's not plugged in to a modem.

torrenting going on?

 

[wavewerx]

I had the exact same problem with the Linksys WRT120N. It would not let me log in until I rebooted it.

I had the top right modem before and believe it was replaced with the second page modem that you linked. I will be 100% sure when I get home that my new one is Ubee.

EDIT: I did not have to replace the router, I thought for hte longest time that's what I was going to have to do. I went through 2 or 3 on site TWC technicians before it was done.

I'm on the exact same path... While I think it could be a router issue, I think it's only because it may not be able to handle the load of my network. Under my normal settings, the Linksys unit is only a WAP and switch for the laptops (wifi, no gaming) and HTPC / consoles.

this is a router issue
you should be able to log in to the router even if it's not plugged in to a modem.

torrenting going on?

I can log in to the router if it's not plugged into a modem but once network traffic starts crawling, or if the unit hasn't been rebooted in 2+ days, I cannot log in.

Yes, torrenting is going on BUT connection dies even when no torrent client is running.

 

[gimp]

I can log in to the router if it's not plugged into a modem but once network traffic starts crawling, or if the unit hasn't been rebooted in 2+ days, I cannot log in.

Yes, torrenting is going on BUT connection dies even when no torrent client is running.

this is a router issue, and is completely irrelevant to the internet connection.
I used to have this issue on my WRT54G, so I install DD-WRT firmware and have had no issues since.

 

[wavewerx]

this is a router issue, and is completely irrelevant to the internet connection.
I used to have this issue on my WRT54G, so I install DD-WRT firmware and have had no issues since.

Why would I see the same issue except with longer stretches of service with my pfSense box setup as a router instead of the WRT54G setup as the router?

Just trying to understand a bit more - not arguing

 

[Cmustang87]

Ahh yep, good catch j-sta. If you're having the same problem with no modem, definitely router. DD-WRT is a little more robust than the default firmware of that WRT54G. I would say try it out.

EDIT: You may also want to remove 1 device at a time from your network to see if the issue continues happening. You may have something on your network that's throwing out garbage traffic. Wireshark is something basic you can run on a host machine to monitor usage.

 

[gimp]

Why would I see the same issue except with longer stretches of service with my pfSense box setup as a router instead of the WRT54G setup as the router?

Just trying to understand a bit more - not arguing

the issue with consumer routers is that torrenting fills up the (relatively small) NAT tables. When the NAT table gets full, and the router holds connections open for too long, it takes a crap.

Why would the same issue occur with your pfSense box at different intervals? I don't know; I've never used pfSense.

That's not to say that the modem or cable connection wasn't previously the issue, or that it may also still be an issue.

But the particular issue with not being able to access the router's web interface tells me that particular issue is with the router.

 

[Cmustang87]

I would run wireshark and isolate it down to a device. Do you remember adding anything that may have triggered the events?

 

[wavewerx]

Ahh yep, good catch j-sta. If you're having the same problem with no modem, definitely router. DD-WRT is a little more robust than the default firmware of that WRT54G. I would say try it out.

EDIT: You may also want to remove 1 device at a time from your network to see if the issue continues happening. You may have something on your network that's throwing out garbage traffic. Wireshark is something basic you can run on a host machine to monitor usage.

I had a great long reply written out but I hit CTRL+Q and killed the tab I was in....

I may have posted some confusing information earlier... For the remainder of this post, 'my router' is in reference to the Linksys WRT54G. (I do not have issues with my pfSense router, but internet access continues crawl or stop during times of high traffic.) I can log in to my router under normal operation. When internet crawls or stops, rebooting my modem fixes the issue. Occasionally I'll need to reboot both my modem and router to fix this issue. If neither option works, TWC Tech Support gets called.

If we've been 'doing alot' - SC2 lan, streaming, etc. - then I won't be able to log in to my router until after network traffic dies down. Once it does, I can log in but pages take a little to load - too long for a LAN device (the router has not been rebooted)

If we lose internet access or it begins crawling and I decide to log into my router, there is a chance that I won't be able to log in to it until I've restarted it.

The router operates fine if we've been doing light internet applications - minimal streaming, no gaming, web surfing, etc.

 

[wavewerx]

I would run wireshark and isolate it down to a device. Do you remember adding anything that may have triggered the events?

Building my gaming rig for SC2 launch. Prior to that, I didn't add that much to network traffic. I was on my Mac laptop and it was only normal web surfing.

I'm almost certain that it's not a device on my network causing the issue.

 

[vraa]

Its your router get a mikrotik

 

[wavewerx]

the issue with consumer routers is that torrenting fills up the (relatively small) NAT tables. When the NAT table gets full, and the router holds connections open for too long, it takes a crap.

Exactly right - I'm sure that's the issue with my Linksys router. I'm taking that logic and applying that same problem to the consumer level modem that TWC RR is giving me for my 10/.75Mb connection.

Why would the same issue occur with your pfSense box at different intervals? I don't know; I've never used pfSense.

I think the issue occurs fewer and farther between on my pfSense rig is because it's a mighty heftier box and can handle the load better.

That's not to say that the modem or cable connection wasn't previously the issue, or that it may also still be an issue.

But the particular issue with not being able to access the router's web interface tells me that particular issue is with the router.

My focus isn't on the router but on the internet connection and modem. The router serves it's duty fine when it's a WAP and switch for a few computers.

I really do appreciate the help guys, honestly! but after working with it for a while I'm thinking it's outside of my network.

 

[wavewerx]

I should also clarify 'crawling or stoping'.

Crawling > ping times of 650+ms.

Stopping > SEND and REC lights on the modem NOT flashing, TWC NOT seeing my modem / connection.

 

[gimp]

My focus isn't on the router but on the internet connection and modem. The router serves it's duty fine when it's a WAP and switch for a few computers.

the issue here is, if the router is a possible culprit, it's hard to determine what all the issues are if you cannot remove a (possible) culprit from the mix.

I should also clarify 'crawling or stoping'.

Crawling > ping times of 650+ms.

Stopping > SEND and REC lights on the modem NOT flashing, TWC NOT seeing my modem / connection.

this certainly helps. Still, when the send/rec lights on the modem stop, there is absolutely no reason you should not be able to still access the router web interface. This is why it's hard to help decipher the issue.

Send/rec light on modem and access to router web interface timing out really are two serperate issues, and I don't see any way they can be related.

 

[Krazypoloc]

Try installing Tomato or DD-WRT on the router and see if that fixes the issue. 2 free and easy to setup solutions that will likely solve your issue. I completely agree that the router is at fault, regardless if you are also having issues with your modem you need to get your router working properly first, then troubleshoot your modem. Your going about the troubleshooting process all wrong, you need to stop and take a look at what the experts are telling you. Flip your router over right now and tell me what the version number is, then we can go from there.

 

[wavewerx]

the issue here is, if the router is a possible culprit, it's hard to determine what all the issues are if you cannot remove a (possible) culprit from the mix.

this certainly helps. Still, when the send/rec lights on the modem stop, there is absolutely no reason you should not be able to still access the router web interface. This is why it's hard to help decipher the issue.

Send/rec light on modem and access to router web interface timing out really are two serperate issues, and I don't see any way they can be related.

Try installing Tomato or DD-WRT on the router and see if that fixes the issue. 2 free and easy to setup solutions that will likely solve your issue. I completely agree that the router is at fault, regardless if you are also having issues with your modem you need to get your router working properly first, then troubleshoot your modem. Your going about the troubleshooting process all wrong, you need to stop and take a look at what the experts are telling you. Flip your router over right now and tell me what the version number is, then we can go from there.

Understand that I do appreciate the help and I'm not trying to be difficult BUT

When the Linksys WRT54Gv6 is setup ONLY as a WAP and is further down my network chain there is no issue logging into the web interface. Since it's primary us is ONLY AS A WAP during normal operation I'd like to keep the stock firmware on it and not worry about it - set it and forget it.

When the pfSense box is my primary and only router at my internet gateway the problem - times of slow or no internet - persists though it's less frequent.

I'll swap the pfSense box in for the router at the gateway and setup the Linksys WRT54Gv6 only as my WAP a little later this week when I have the time.

 

[Cmustang87]

Chiming in to clarify that it is a Ubee modem that I now have. Model # U10C018.80

 

[gimp]

When the Linksys WRT54Gv6 is setup ONLY as a WAP and is further down my network chain there is no issue logging into the web interface. Since it's primary us is ONLY AS A WAP during normal operation I'd like to keep the stock firmware on it and not worry about it - set it and forget it.

you won't have NAT table issues when it's configured as just a WAP, because it's routing features (NAT table) are not in use

 

[Cmustang87]

I would probably use your WRT54G as a WAP and connect it to your pfSense... that may be a sexy combo. Use DD-WRT on your 54G.

 

[thinkdiesel]

I have the same exact issue, and its been occuring forever. Using a brand new DIR655, and modem is the WebSTAR DPC2100R2.

Frustrating, and I have changed modems with them a few times.

 

[Krazypoloc]

....I'd like to keep the stock firmware on it and not worry about it - set it and forget it.

I don't think you realize how bad the stock firmware on those devices is and how good Tomato or DD-WRT firmware is, the contrast of one to the other makes for an easy choice. Suite yourself though if you want to add another unneeded box into the mix using more power and creating more latency....

 

[hawk82]

For what it is worth, you can get TWC Business Class installed to a residential location. They don't care as long as you pay the bill. I currently have business class. The main advantage is same day Truck Roll for issues as long as I call in before noontime or so. Afternoon time, I'd get a Truck Roll first thing next day. Calling into support is an easy process and for the most part, I've found that Business Class reps seemed to be better trained. I can't say 100% that the same support techs worth both residential and business or are separate groups. Another supposed advantage with business class is that the business class modems are given a higher QoS over residential modems. I can't back that up, just what I have heard.

 

[wavewerx]

I don't think you realize how bad the stock firmware on those devices is and how good Tomato or DD-WRT firmware is, the contrast of one to the other makes for an easy choice. Suite yourself though if you want to add another unneeded box into the mix using more power and creating more latency....

I normally have the pfSense box as the router and the Linksys WRT54Gv6 as my WAP. I need a wireless connection for the roommates and guests and I enjoy the learning experience I get with pfSense and other firewall / router distros.

Would Tomato or DD-WRT have enough power on the WRT54G to replace my pfSense box?

 

[xXaNaXx]

I normally have the pfSense box as the router and the Linksys WRT54Gv6 as my WAP. I need a wireless connection for the roommates and guests and I enjoy the learning experience I get with pfSense and other firewall / router distros.

Would Tomato or DD-WRT have enough power on the WRT54G to replace my pfSense box?

in my personal opinion, no....but then again, i have moved beyond shitty consumer-grade routers and gone to the world of MikroTik routers.....i'll never go back.

who knows, it may be enough to run your own personal home network, but i learned long, long ago never to EVER buy another Linksys device again.

 

[timreichhart]

When I got my fiber connection at my apt I moved way from the linksys consumer-grade router for the main connection from fiber connection outside because when I start to download torrents it would choke my connection and just keeps resetting the router. So I went and installed smoothwall on a old computer and ever since I dont have that problem anymore. But I still use linksys router for my wireless connection for my laptops.

 

[wavewerx]

When I got my fiber connection at my apt I moved way from the linksys consumer-grade router for the main connection from fiber connection outside because when I start to download torrents it would choke my connection and just keeps resetting the router. So I went and installed smoothwall on a old computer and ever since I dont have that problem anymore. But I still use linksys router for my wireless connection for my laptops.

That's the setup I'm pursuing and I'm not exactly sure how it got lost from my OP. Substituting smoothwall for pfsense.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Tomato runs circles around DD-WRT...esp if you need to use only as a WAP.
Since your symptoms lessen when you have the PFSense box setup as your router...this clearly points to it not being outside your network. If it was something outside of your network, the problems would be constant/consistant.

Yes PFSense can handle incredible loads..but that also depends on what kind of hardware it's installed on..how good the NICs are, and how you setup your QoS so that the 1 box you say does that torrent crap 24x7 is put in the "penalty box" so it doesn't consume your connection. No matter how mighty of a router you have....if you don't setup some steps to tame that torrent/p2p crap, your network will suffer.