Turns out I hate wide color gamut, what new monitor do I get?

kvcrawford said:
Yes, you're either kooky or your laptop's screen is off. The image on the right certainly looks worse.

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Re: video

When I got my planar, I fired up some 1080p trailers from apple.com

Colors did not bother me a bit. In fact, the trailers looked fantastic.

Are the trailers + quicktime color-aware? Or did I just not notice any problems?
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ok now! I've reviewed this picture on 4 monitors now, and maintain that I find the right picture to be better. hmmm this sounds like the same sort of subjective debates one might encounter in the audio section of the forums.

note: monitors the image was viewed on.... Ibm t41 laptop (work computer) sony G520, Sony gdm-fw900 (renown for it's color accuracy) and sony sdm-p234
 
brumwald said:
That alone won't cut it for videos and games, right?
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No it would. That would fix the problem for all none color aware applications.

Syndicated_Death said:
call me Kooky but I find the color of the right picture to be better. the one on the left looks bland. not as much glow in her skin on the left...
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Yes, you are kooky or you like girls with red skin.

GrimWarrior said:
So the Benq V2400W and the NEC 2490WUXi are the only two non wide gamut monitors that are available right now?...
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Not by a long shot. The 2490 is the only none wide gamut, wide screen IPS screens. I believe most TN panels are 72% gamut because 6bit would dither like a mutha on wide gamut. Or at least dither even worse than it does with just 72%

ecat said:
Indeed, mainstream consumer cards with 10bit processing and 10bit DACs have been around since 2002...
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Well you learn something new every day.:D Honestly though only one of the monitors you listed actually supports 10bit color and it costs over $6,000.00 and is intended for the medical field. It's hardly mainstream or commonly used by graphics professionals.

I guess we only differ on that I don't buy the estimate of 4-5 years. I do believe we have a good chance of seeing 10bit starting to hit the enthusiasts market but not to the point that it would drive a new standard. Look at HDTV, BluRay has barely made an impact and recent indicators see it losing steam.

But hell, I would like to be proven wrong.:eek: That would very cool.

Benny said:
The funny thing is that HDTV is starting to introduce of standards for wider color while the PC world is fighting with a standard that was implemented to match HDTV color. :)
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Particularly given that it would be easier to fix on the PC. It could easily be done in an OS patch or in Windows 7. Where as for TV it requires boxes to be moved. But then again maybe that is the crux. There is no profit for MS or Apple right now to address the issue where as for TV manufactures can use the new feature as a way to move more boxes.

Benny said:
I'm wondering if the developers even know that there are people longing for a fix to happen asap (I doubt there was something on the windows7 wish list.., and apple seems to be hiding behind sRGB backlights although some of it's most typical users are the ones that could sometimes use a little more cyan..)
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It was on my wish list and I am pissed its not on there.
 
Snowdog said:
No Just that the Benq G2400/V2400 represent the best of the low end. The NEC the best of the higher end.
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I"m sorry, but I've been looking, and I don't see what the other choices are besides those? If you could enlighten me, I'd be very grateful, because at this point, I think that's what my search has come down to, is just finding something that isn't horrible, and also is non wide gamut.

Luthorcrow said:
Not by a long shot. The 2490 is the only none wide gamut, wide screen IPS screens. I believe most TN panels are 72% gamut because 6bit would dither like a mutha on wide gamut. Or at least dither even worse than it does with just 72%
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I've been looking on the digitalversus.com website at monitors, and looking at the "Gamut (displayable color range)" test to see if a monitor is wide gamut or not, because it's not really something they put in the "stats" of monitors on websites. I"m doing that by looking at the lcd2690, because that is wide gamut, and I see that the monitor black triangle is way out of the brown sRGB triangle, and then looking at other monitors to see if they are the same. Is that wrong? :(
 
Err, why not use a third party program to enable colour corrections manually in games?
 
GrimWarrior said:
I've been looking on the digitalversus.com website at monitors, and looking at the "Gamut (displayable color range)" test to see if a monitor is wide gamut or not, because it's not really something they put in the "stats" of monitors on websites. I"m doing that by looking at the lcd2690, because that is wide gamut, and I see that the monitor black triangle is way out of the brown sRGB triangle, and then looking at other monitors to see if they are the same. Is that wrong? :(
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Not wrong but a bit too complicated, you don't need to look at the NEC for comparison, if the black triangle is the same size as the orange one it's standard gamut :) (some are slightly tilted or not at exactly at the same place but the same size, these are still "standard" enough to not be worried about it http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=322&ma2=52&mo2=345&p2=3251&ph=7 )

With the wider gamut ones the extend the black one is further out differs, as LED and WC-CCFL backlights all widen the gamut to different levels.
 
Benny said:
Not wrong but a bit too complicated, you don't need to look at the NEC for comparison, if the black triangle is the same size as the orange one it's standard gamut :) (some are slightly tilted or not at exactly at the same place but the same size, these are still "standard" enough to not be worried about it http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=322&ma2=52&mo2=345&p2=3251&ph=7 )
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Thanks for that bit of info about the triangles. I was having trouble figuring out what those graphs were supposed to represent. :)

Does anyone know if the HP w2207/w2007 series is wide gamut? It's not listed on digitalversus.
 
slug3k said:
Thanks for that bit of info about the triangles. I was having trouble figuring out what those graphs were supposed to represent. :)
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in case you are also wondering what the oddly shaped colorful thing around the triangles is:
It's representing the colors the human eye can see.
The triangle shows what part of those can be displayed on the monitor.
The white shape shows the colors that are most commonly used in print (4 color CMYK mix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMYK)

slug3k said:
Does anyone know if the HP w2207/w2007 series is wide gamut? It's not listed on digitalversus.
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looks like an sRGB backlight to me..
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-hp-w2207-part10.html
 
lobski said:
Err, why not use a third party program to enable colour corrections manually in games?
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Please tell me of this program and I'll stop bitching about color spaces. Not that I really have been bitching a lot, because I forgot about the thread for a while when my GPU broke. Fun to see that it's still alive!

I use Monitor Calibration Wizard to get correct gamma (because it can force the color profile that's enabled in windows) but it doesn't correct for the fact that it's wide color gamut. Also in Vista the only game that allows its colors to be overridden is Crysis. Almost all games work with MCW in Xp, but it only works with Crysis in Vista.

If there's some program that I missed that can do color space conversion that forces itself over the game settings then sign me up!
 
I use Monitor Calibration Wizard to get correct gamma (because it can force the color profile that's enabled in windows) but it doesn't correct for the fact that it's wide color gamut. Also in Vista the only game that allows its colors to be overridden is Crysis. Almost all games work with MCW in Xp, but it only works with Crysis in Vista.
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Doesnt it tone down the saturated colors at all? Can you take a comparison photo of some game where saturation is obvious, with MCW enabled and disabled? I would really like to see cuz Im about to buy LP2475w.
 
brumwald said:
I was under the impression that real-time color conversions wasn't feasible in software for games/movies.
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I would imagine if done at the GPU shader level it would be eminently possible, you'd need something to compile your calibrated profile into a suitable filter first.
 
Syndicated_Death said:
ok now! I've reviewed this picture on 4 monitors now, and maintain that I find the right picture to be better. hmmm this sounds like the same sort of subjective debates one might encounter in the audio section of the forums.

note: monitors the image was viewed on.... Ibm t41 laptop (work computer) sony G520, Sony gdm-fw900 (renown for it's color accuracy) and sony sdm-p234
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There's nothing subjective about this, the colors are off. Now, you might like over-saturated colors, but that doesn't change the fact that the colors are off.

Now, since you like the colors... would you be interested in buying a Planar PX2611W? No backlight bleed, no stuck pixels, perfect condition. ;)

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Re: Standard Gamut Alternatives

You guys are forgetting the Apple Cinema Display! 23", 1920x1200, IPS screen, no extra color hardware (so I'm figuring no input lag). Standard gamut!

Wish I would have bought one of those. Costs about the same as my planar. D'OH
 
Does anyone know anything about the Dell 2408wfp's "sRGB emulation mode"? Would this make colors more normal in programs that aren't color aware, or would there still be oversaturation anyway?

This site mentions this feature:

http://monitortest.blogspot.com/
 
Luthorcrow said:
No it would. That would fix the problem for all none color aware applications.


Yes, you are kooky or you like girls with red skin.


Not by a long shot. The 2490 is the only none wide gamut, wide screen IPS screens. I believe most TN panels are 72% gamut because 6bit would dither like a mutha on wide gamut. Or at least dither even worse than it does with just 72%


Well you learn something new every day.:D Honestly though only one of the monitors you listed actually supports 10bit color and it costs over $6,000.00 and is intended for the medical field. It's hardly mainstream or commonly used by graphics professionals.

I guess we only differ on that I don't buy the estimate of 4-5 years. I do believe we have a good chance of seeing 10bit starting to hit the enthusiasts market but not to the point that it would drive a new standard. Look at HDTV, BluRay has barely made an impact and recent indicators see it losing steam.

But hell, I would like to be proven wrong.:eek: That would very cool.


Particularly given that it would be easier to fix on the PC. It could easily be done in an OS patch or in Windows 7. Where as for TV it requires boxes to be moved. But then again maybe that is the crux. There is no profit for MS or Apple right now to address the issue where as for TV manufactures can use the new feature as a way to move more boxes.


It was on my wish list and I am pissed its not on there.
Click to expand...

I kid you not. the image viewed on all my monitors doesn't look red at all. looks like a more normal skin tone than the other image. the only exception was viewing it on my sony fwd-42lx1. that was the only monitor where the left picture looked more natural.
 
Syndicated_Death said:
I kid you not. the image viewed on all my monitors doesn't look red at all. looks like a more normal skin tone than the other image. the only exception was viewing it on my sony fwd-42lx1. that was the only monitor where the left picture looked more natural.
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I think I can account for the discrepancy. I have firefox color management turned on. The right image is painful to look at way over hot red. Obviously way over the top. The left is much more normal.

But the image as built in profile.

If I use another browser with no color management that changes. The right image looks just about normal or perhaps a bit oversaturated, the left now looks a little down on the red.

I suspect syndicated death has color management off or a browser that doesn't support it. Those of us reporting excess saturation are using Firefox with color management on and are honoring the built in profile which is jacking the saturation more.
 
Snowdog said:
I think I can account for the discrepancy. I have firefox color management turned on. The right image is painful to look at way over hot red. Obviously way over the top. The left is much more normal.

But the image as built in profile.

If I use another browser with no color management that changes. The right image looks just about normal or perhaps a bit oversaturated, the left now looks a little down on the red.

I suspect syndicated death has color management off or a browser that doesn't support it. Those of us reporting excess saturation are using Firefox with color management on and are honoring the built in profile which is jacking the saturation more.
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I have color management turned off, using a standard gamut IPS panel, and there is a big difference indeed, with the right image looking much worse.
 
kvcrawford said:
I have color management turned off, using a standard gamut IPS panel, and there is a big difference indeed, with the right image looking much worse.
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Well just to make sure we all the same thing. Here is the same image converted to sRGB with color profile removed. That way we all see the same thing, color management on or off. This is the way images should be posted on the web BTW.


Here is the Original posted:


Here it is in Web friendly sRGB so we all see the same thing:


If you have color management working properly you will see no difference, but if you don't, the original image will look less saturated. Ignore the differences in the thumbnails as even if you have color management enabled, the profile isn't passed to the thumbnails.

If we want to talk about what we see, we should at least be looking at the same thing. For that you need to look at the second image. In which case I agree. The right hand image is way over the top and too red. I don't think the people who disagreed were actually seeing it the same way.
 
MaZa said:
Doesnt it tone down the saturated colors at all? Can you take a comparison photo of some game where saturation is obvious, with MCW enabled and disabled? I would really like to see cuz Im about to buy LP2475w.
Click to expand...

My desktop computer is broken, so I'm on my laptop with Vista now, so I could only do comparison shots in Crysis, but to me its very obvious that it's only doing gamma correction, just like the calibration software does for windows.
 
TheManko said:
My desktop computer is broken, so I'm on my laptop with Vista now, so I could only do comparison shots in Crysis, but to me its very obvious that it's only doing gamma correction, just like the calibration software does for windows.
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Wow, Crysis on a laptop. That must be a slideshow.
 
TheManko said:
My desktop computer is broken, so I'm on my laptop with Vista now, so I could only do comparison shots in Crysis, but to me its very obvious that it's only doing gamma correction, just like the calibration software does for windows.
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Damn. Well, I guess I shouldnt rush with monitor buying, (atleast untill I see more of the widegamut effects) I dont want to be dissapointed with that wide gamut thing. I hope there will be sRGB IPS monitors someday.
 
Not available in Finland, and yes its expensive... VERY expensive... IIRC half more than my whole computer rig. :eek:
 
Sorry to hijack the thread, but what about *VA paneled screens suitable for gaming? (good response time, moderate input lag max 2 frames and good black depth/contrast... AND decent sRGB colors with none of this widegamut BS)
Now, why I ditched them in the first place was the fear of black crush, but perhaps I was too hasty and perhaps I should see it myself. Im not worried about horizontal gamma shift as long as its not too visible when viewed from directly front, unlike TN vertical shift. Its so bloody obvious on darker pictures where stuff like ceiling details get lost and cant do a damn thing to help it without washing out floor details, other extreme. But is the crush bothering in dark games (after calibration atleast, I have i2) or does it make every gloomy oriented game look like Doom 3? Perhaps I should make a thread about this...
 
MaZa said:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but what about *VA paneled screens suitable for gaming? (good response time, moderate input lag max 2 frames and good black depth/contrast... AND decent sRGB colors with none of this widegamut BS)
Now, why I ditched them in the first place was the fear of black crush, but perhaps I was too hasty and perhaps I should see it myself. Im not worried about horizontal gamma shift as long as its not too visible when viewed from directly front, unlike TN vertical shift. Its so bloody obvious on darker pictures where stuff like ceiling details get lost and cant do a damn thing to help it without washing out floor details, other extreme. But is the crush bothering in dark games (after calibration atleast, I have i2) or does it make every gloomy oriented game look like Doom 3? Perhaps I should make a thread about this...
Click to expand...

I found the gamma shift noticeable on this forum (the dark grey used for messages changed over the width of the monitor).
 
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