Turing based GPUs will carry a higher price than Pascal during the cryptocurrency craze

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by Mr. Bluntman, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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  2. DF-1

    DF-1 2[H]4U

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    AMD just said they expect cryptocurrency to give them zero benefit. (no more sales)
     
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  3. _l_

    _l_ [H]ard|Gawd

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    the hype machine wants folks to start believing that when the 11 series is released miners will buy up all the cards so you better by a 10 series card now while you can.

    Maybe my PC needs a FixMe Stick. ONLY $9.95 + S/H :barefoot:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  4. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is on the resellers, not the manufacturer. Putting "MSRP" in the subject title is misleading. NVIDIA has not once increased the price of their GPUs throughout the cryptomining hysteria.
     
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  5. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

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    so retailers are hell bound to recoup the money they spent on cards during the mining craze by keeping the prices artificially high?

    is there no consumer protection law applicable here?
     
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  6. amenx

    amenx Limp Gawd

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    The Inquirer being a tabloid tech site likes to embellish their stories with terms like WILL be higher vs the original source "LIKELY to be higher" along with a note that this may "deter demand":

    "With the prices of the current-generation graphics cards to remain at high levels, the next-generation devices are likely to be priced even higher in order to create differentiation, but this will also deter demand for the new cards".
    source: https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20180726PD211.html

    I think it will be higher, but similar to how things went with Pascal, which was initially higher due to low availability, high demand. Once production and inventories ramp up a few weeks after release, prices should settle down. How much though is anyones guess. FWIW, I will not pay more than $450 for a 1170.
     
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  7. harmattan

    harmattan 2[H]4U

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    There is no doubt in my mind nVidia is going to jack up prices on the 11 series to unprecedented levels. No doubt. nVidia has been trying to knock up the pricing on all segments for years now. They've tried nearly every weapon in the book: "special" versions (FEs), creating new product tiers with segmented timing, reseller stong arming... The crypto craze (or even appearance thereof) is a gigantic, heaping gift to them in this end.

    Mark my words, nV is going to push pricing to throw-up-in-your-mouth levels with the 11 series.
     
  8. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    While prices may increase, just blanket increase in pricing is not to their benefit: their goal is profit. They increase price too much and demand tapers; further, marketshare is a big part of their overall strategy. They absolutely must stay price-competitive with AMD in order to maintain marketshare, otherwise they lose momentum with the greater community.
     
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  9. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Already been mentioned numerous times. Nvidia will keep Pascal on the market and price the next gen cards higher. Makes sense. Because they can!
     
  10. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Market is different to when Pascal launched though.
    Also the 1170 should be in 1080Ti ballpark for most resolutions depending how they gimp it. So the pricing has to be close, or the ever increasing glut of used cards will cause an issue. This is what has typically hamstrung nvidia from being able to provide the 'value added' excuse.
    As launch approaches, used cards will be saturating the market, reducing prices. If people can get a 1080Ti for e.g. 400 bucks, or an 1170 for likely around ~500 or more if they increase prices due to 'the mining bust', many will elect to aim at the used market.. Remember, most people want 1070-1080Ti perf or Vega. Budget gamers will be happy with 1060-1050s and the Rx5XX series for 1080p usage, all of which are under widespread utilisation for mining.

    Keep in mind what already happened
     
  11. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    More, because that's what the market demands.

    Big question is what happens after release; if 10-series cards continue to sit on shelves, then they may very well just take the loss and price the Turing GPUs lower. Supposing yields are in order performance-equivalent Turing GPUs (and cards) should be cheaper to produce, with smaller dies and lower TDPs (and thus less power circuitry and fewer PCB layers).

    And there's a demand issue behind the 10-series glut that really needs to be considered. Generally speaking, graphics cards are fast enough for the average consumer. We're just in that 'in-between' period where the games that demand more at higher settings don't offer significant fidelity upgrades, and certainly not fidelity upgrades that greatly enhance gameplay, while the next big steps up with 4k and VR are still inaccessible.

    What Nvidia can best do (and AMD whenever they get around to it) is to make the products more accessible as demand picks up and/or they simply run out of old stock. That means that they'll likely use the launch of the 11-series as a way to grab some attention, and will probably wind up cutting MSRPs more quickly than typical (pre-mining craze typical, that is).
     
  12. amenx

    amenx Limp Gawd

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    And the 1070 > the 980ti, yet it didnt come at $650 on release. The x70 was always the value high end of the Nv lineup. Unless they want to price it at 'regular high end' and lose a huge chunk of that very important segment of the market, I doubt it will be priced anywhere near a 1080ti. Yes, the market is different, but mining is no longer a crucial part of it anymore.
     
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  13. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    LOL, f*ck it! I'm out!
     
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  14. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Agreed, Mining sure isn't but they are claiming it will be in this article according to 'industry informers'.

    I'm saying there have been many rumours of price increases, saw it actually happen with the 1070Ti which was $70 more than the 1070. What say they release the 1170Ti straight out (with a cut 1070 for market stratification later and price adjustment if sales are slow) and use that to justify a higher price (e.g. $450+, aiming for e.g. 499).
    This is what I would expect them to do. They already raised prices with FE. Then again with Ti, then why not both.jpg and we have the possible launch of the 11 series...
     
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  15. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not sure if they will sit on shelves. Because I doubt everyone will buy hiigher end cards. I have heard memory (GDDR6) is expensive for now. Also nvidia will be slowly releasing these cards probably to sell all the pascals. Who knows I do suspect they will drop pascal in price as time goes on. Because they are not releasing them all Turing cards at once. Probably 1180 first and then slowly other ones as pascal inventory depletes. Also I think they will continue to make pascal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  16. _l_

    _l_ [H]ard|Gawd

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    yea, now that's what we've been waiting for for the past two years ... a slooow trickle release of the new 11 series at above MSRP prices
     
  17. prne10

    prne10 Limp Gawd

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    100% done with nvidia bullshit. Please AMD save us!
     
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  18. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Gotta wait for now. But I have no doubt Lisa will come out gun slinging like she did with ryzen. The ryzen profits will sure help drive the GPU department. It sucks but I have faith in Lisa!
     
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  19. wrangler

    wrangler 2[H]4U

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    Ima be using my 1080's for a loooooonnnnnngggggg time. (y)
     
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  20. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    yea I said that a while back too. But I wont name people. Took a lot of shit for being nvidia hater bla bla lol. Everytime I said Nvidia will milk pascal and we wont see next gen cards for likely 2 years I remember how much shit I got from few people who I don't really see around here anymore. I was just stating the obvious, strong mining demand, no competition means milk as long as you can.
     
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  21. Mav451

    Mav451 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Such arrogance and insanity with this viewpoint lmao. mBTC/day down to 0.128 and they're still holding out hope of suckers willing to pay full price for 2-year old Pascal gear?
    Enjoy the continued oversupply then :p
     
  22. atp1916

    atp1916 [H]ard|DCoTM x1

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    *eyes his 57 1070/1070 Ti/1080 GPUs*

    - nods slowly -

    "yes, yes that'll do"

    :D
     
  23. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ya know, bragging about how many cards you've taken off the market is part of the reason miners get shit on.
     
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  24. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Then we'll just need Nvidia to save us from AMD's bullshit...
     
  25. harmattan

    harmattan 2[H]4U

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    Technology and performance should get cheaper through advancement and iteration. However, that's not going to happen in this market. We're going to see increased baseline prices from nV across the board coupled with a complete lack of competition and significant demand hence increased retail prices.

    Let me throw out a few numbers for the sake of discussion:

    1160 - $450
    1170 - $650
    1180 -$850

    ...with likely higher actual retail prices.

    Removing all subjectivity, how many of you would you pay these prices on launch day? Not what you think you should pay... what you would pay. This is what nV pricing analysts are modelling now.

    I'm not trying to be a downer, but people should set their expectations.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  26. harmattan

    harmattan 2[H]4U

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    You hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter if the mining market has bottomed out for now: it's still going to influence pricing. The potential for another boom is there (and almost an eventuality), and there's a new market i.e. demand. The paradigm has irrevocably shifted and nV is fully aware of this.
     
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  27. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Fixed. I certainly was not trying to mislead anyone, but make people aware of the possibility that nVIDIA might personally be raising prices themselves this round. That's all.
     
  28. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    In normal industry 2-3% each year is normal. So if we went from $449 on a tier to $479 that would be fine. If they go from $449 to $599 that’s a different story. Especially if the value (FPS per $) is the same as what we have now.

    The lack of competition has me concerned... I have a 1080ti which drives my Vive Pro and games perfectly. I have near zero reason to upgrade. I have no problem skipping a gen.
     
  29. prne10

    prne10 Limp Gawd

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    I'm okay with this. Don't care who I buy from as long as each side is doing their job at being competitive.
     
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  30. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    A Card shouldn't cost more than a PC just saying. You might not need the top end card but usually it looks that way.
     
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  31. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    I certainly wish AMD was more competitive. They have a few niches, but overall they leave a pretty poor impression. Right now Nvidia could right stomp them out of the market just by playing hardcore with their pricing, but that's not really to Nvidia's advantage; then they'd be in the USGOV's crosshairs like Ma Bell was.

    It's not a PC without the card, and generally speaking the GPU is the most powerful and power-hungry component. I see your comparison, I just don't see it really playing; many of us are just happy that the level of performance we're after is even available at all, let alone actually accessible.
     
  32. Dougie

    Dougie [H]Lite

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    I think there will be at least a $100 premium over previous gen, so long that AMD doesn't have an answer in that same timespan, but AMD's answer may also be just a few month away.
     
  33. _l_

    _l_ [H]ard|Gawd

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    If that proves true then there's only one thing to do (unless one is a hopeless, foolish hardware whore) ... don't buy :barefoot:

    I find it interesting how PC gaming has/is becoming a pastime for the financially elite and please don't comment how a GTX 970 is still plenty for today's most recent releases because it's not
     
  34. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    I actually think they'll be reasonably priced, but they won't be that much better than what we've currently got.

    I'm not expecting high performance + high price. I don't think that market is big enough right now tbh. Anyone who needs the power has it by now, so mostly all that's left are the more frugal consumers.

    Ultimately, these cards need to sell.
     
  35. jkmetal

    jkmetal Limp Gawd

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    You could get by on a GTX 970 but your not coming close to sniffing 1440P or highest settings.

    The crypto craze priced out a ton of people from buying newer cards but most of us were able to get by with our existing cards during the affordability drought. I'm hoping that NV doesn't double down on the portion of the market that could afford the jacked up prices and really comes out strong in the under $200 segment. If we see a $175 gtx 1150ti with AIB goes over $200, the affordability era of 2010-2016 will be officially abandoned. The 1160 needs to be $200.
     
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  36. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Very true. The excuse is there already.
    The way crypto has not been shut down means there will be another wave likely. But perhaps not as big as the last one.
     
  37. harmattan

    harmattan 2[H]4U

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    AMD's answer has been a few months away for the past 3 years :)

    That's just it. Even if the crypto market dies, nV knows the collective expectation has changed -- and, like Grandpa use to say to his recon unit, "once screwed, you can't unscrew that chicken".
     
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  38. obs

    obs [H]ardness Supreme

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    I really doubt it. Crypto has started moving to dedicated ASIC hardware and will likely continue in that direction. The biggest limiting factor for crypto is energy efficiency and dedicated hardware will always be orders of magnitude better at that. Sure, there's a potential but I see it unlikely we see another Q1/Q2 2018 situation.
     
  39. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Agreed. This is good news for gamers at least. I expect the 1180 MSRP will be 800. AIBs $50-100 higher. Also not expecting them to be widely available until nov./dec.
     
  40. amenx

    amenx Limp Gawd

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    That would shatter Nvidias 70% market share, something I dont think they want to give up. Most people buy according to set budgets and price ranges, its the reason for the GPU tiering system. I can tell you right now many peeps would be pretty disgusted to have to step a notch down from their usual tiers. It would also be a PR disaster that would leave many of Nvidias traditional buyers pretty outraged. I for one will immediately switch to AMD (or consoles) even if they have an inferior product that is half the performance. While I love gaming, it is not my life and can easily do without it. If a $650 1170 came out I would just laugh and say fck it and move on to other things.
     
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