Trouble Overclocking with MSI Z170A Gaming M5 and an Intel 6600K chip

[Laz322]

Hello,

I've been having a damned difficult time trying to get a stable overclock with this motherboard (MSI Z170A Gaming M5) and the Intel Skylake 6600K. I know all overclocks are not the same and I understand that results may very depending on differences in hardware/cooling, etc. but I though the 6600K was easy to overclock and at relatively low voltages (I often read of people getting to 4.4GHz at a Vcore of 1.250v without difficulty). I haven't been so luck yet and if I don't figure things out by tomorrow I will not be able to replace either the motherboard or the processor (if the fault lies with either one).

My target is 4.3ghz. At first I tried the recommend Vcore of 1.250v (at optimized default in the Bios as a starting point) with XMP disabled (just in case) and all power saving features turned off. I ran Prime95 on Blend and after two runs one of my cores stops working. The best I could do with Intel Burn Test (@4.2ghz) was to pass the standard test, if I tried the next setting up [High] the program would either shut down with a warning message or the computer would freeze up. I pass AIDA64's stability test without a problem, run a Cinebench CPU benchmark no problem, etc. I've had no luck with Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility (just for stress testing, not overclocking with it) and my memory passed four hours of the UEFI MemeTest86 without any errors.

Right now I'm at a Vcore of 1.300v in the Bios. I've set an Override Offset of 0.065mv to battle the voltage droop at load. The Ring is at 3900GHz, FCLK is at 1000GHz. The offset brings the Vcore up to 1.368v (though at idle the system Vcore in CPUID is 1.384v, but I believe the values are slightly different on how the motherboard steps up each offset I set).

Ideally I'd like to get a lower Vcore at idle and find some way to battle voltage droop during load. I'm already heading towards the voltage limits for this chip (1.450v) and I haven't even got 4.3ghz OC stable!

There are other settings in the Bios dealing with voltage/delivery to the CPU that I do not fully understand and won't touch until I have, at the very least, a basic understanding of their function.

This board doesn't have LLC (Load-line-calibration) which was very surprising since it isn't a budget board and it was marketed for gamers and overclockers. MSI tech support (based out of California) is horrible. The phone "techs" know virtually nothing about the board and say if I want LCC I have to buy the more expensive M7 as they have no plans on ever updating the current Bios to add LLC.

Thanks for reading, I know it was a bit long.

Please help if you can,

-laz.

 

[ReaperX22]

Have you updated the BIOS to the latest version?

What RAM are you using as well?

Is everything at stock just fine? I.e. at stock settings if you run a stress test is it all stable? Do a straight manual voltage rather than offset for now. Set everything to 4.2ghz with 1.25v LLC to High or (if out of 10, say

Technically if it's stable at stock settings there, in theory, shouldn't be any faults in the system. Overclocking is not a guaranteed thing, though your results are a little odd.

 

[Laz322]

Have you updated the BIOS to the latest version?

What RAM are you using as well?

Is everything at stock just fine? I.e. at stock settings if you run a stress test is it all stable? Do a straight manual voltage rather than offset for now. Set everything to 4.2ghz with 1.25v LLC to High or (if out of 10, say

Technically if it's stable at stock settings there, in theory, shouldn't be any faults in the system. Overclocking is not a guaranteed thing, though your results are a little odd.

Hey man,

I'm using 16GB of Crucial 2400 Ballistix Sport LT. Yes, everything at stock settings was fine. I passed Intel Burn Test at the highest setting at stock speed (3.5GHz) and using the Game Boost Feature. I'm doing a manual voltage of 1.300v and an offset of 0.065 (reason for the offset is to combat Vdroop). The MSI M5 does not have LLC, hence the reason I am using the Override Offset setting (user-defined). Any decent 6600K should be able to reach 4.3Ghz easily with a little Vcore increase. I'm thinking that this motherboard is somehow bottle-necking the overclock, maybe through a specific setting that should be disabled, etc. I've read that some people have had problems overclocking the 6600K with this MSI board. If I want LLC (according to the very lame MSI "tech support" idiots I have to upgrade to the M7 since MSI has no plans to add LLC to the M5 Bios (so people will buy the more expensive M7).

Thank you for the reply.

-laz.

P.S.,

Yes, I have the latest Bios according to MSI.

 

[ReaperX22]

Sorry I missed that part about LLC. You did say that lol.

I only asked about the RAM as I understand some specific Corsair modules (for some reason) like a tiny little extra bump in voltage.

It sounds really odd though you can't seem to get anything above stock.

I also find it silly LLC isn't available.. I'd even try setting XMP as well.

Checking around it seems that particular board requires a very high vcore to manage anything reasonable. But 1.4v should see you to 4.4ghz AT LEAST.

I doubt it's the chip, more likely the board.

 

[pendragon1]

like reaper said bump the ram voltage a bit and set its timings manually.

I understand that results may very depending on differences in hardware/cooling, etc.

The best I could do with Intel Burn Test (@4.2ghz) was to pass the standard test, if I tried the next setting up [High] the program would either shut down with a warning message or the computer would freeze up. I pass AIDA64's stability test without a problem, run a Cinebench CPU benchmark no problem, etc. I've had no luck with Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility (just for stress testing, not overclocking with it) and my memory passed four hours of the UEFI MemeTest86 without any errors.

what are you using for cooling, what temps are you getting and what is the error message? if the system will be on 24/7 only go to 1.35v on the cpu.

if I want LCC I have to buy the more expensive M7

you bought a cheaper gaming board not meant for OCing, this is normal every brand does this. you needed to do research before purchase, not their fault.

Any decent 6600K should be able to reach 4.3Ghz

this is not guaranteed, ever.

did you upgrade cooling at all? you have left out most of your system specs, temps, updated bios etc. we need details to help.

 

[ReaperX22]

I agree mostly pendragon, but have to disagree on the low end board part. The Gaming M5 is what I'd consider a mid end board, and a cheaper Z170 HD3 from Gigabyte seems to hold OC's better than it. I have to argue that MSI has played an odd hand here.

Definitely agree no OC is guaranteed, and that people need to realise the K version doesn't automatically mean it'll do 4.5ghz+. It provides an option. But technically ANY gain you receive should be taken as a triumph.

Good point re-temps, didn't even think to ask, though try using Prime95 instead of intel burn test? (Just double check to lookup the skylake/prime issue to do with AVX instructions to pick the right version).

Have you tried anything other than benchmarks/tests? Like if you played a game does it crash?

 

[pendragon1]

I agree mostly pendragon, but have to disagree on the low end board part.

I meant cheaper as in price not quality.
the K just means its unlocked right, not that it OCs well? he did mention prime(no version # though) says "one core crashed after two full runs" I usually will only run prime for 15 minutes or so on a gaming system, an encoding rig would be different. then I start testing with games.

 

[ReaperX22]

Ah, yes, but you specifically stated 'not meant for ocing'. In theory all Z boards are 'meant for OC'ing' some just do it better. Though if I can have a 4 phase Gigabyte ITX board (Z97 mind you) OC just fine, I can't see why a mid range Z170 board wouldn't manage a reasonable OC either. .

Yeah I don't bother with more than 30mins of Prime for my own computer anymore. If I crash once in a while after that I add a .01v which usually fixes it (my 4690k wouldn't do 1.15v, but 1.16v fixed my once a week crashing).

 

[pendragon1]

well I guess I am wrong according to msi this board is "built for OCing" it's just missing full settings in the bios. it yes you can OC to some degree on pretty much every aftermarket mobo but that does not mean they are built for it.

he did say he had it running at 4.2 and that is when it would crash in prime95. so he's got it from 3.5 to 4.2, he didn't hit the silicon lottery winner he was hoping for...

 

[Laz322]

like reaper said bump the ram voltage a bit and set its timings manually.



what are you using for cooling, what temps are you getting and what is the error message? if the system will be on 24/7 only go to 1.35v on the cpu.


you bought a cheaper gaming board not meant for OCing, this is normal every brand does this. you needed to do research before purchase, not their fault.


this is not guaranteed, ever.

did you upgrade cooling at all? you have left out most of your system specs, temps, updated bios etc. we need details to help.

Hey man,

I disagree, if you go to MSI's site and read up on the M5 motherboard they explicitly say the board was geared towards overclockers, hence the whole "Gaming" part of the MSI Z170A Gaming M5. So no, it it isn't my fault, it's their fault for deceiving the customer by way of misleading advertising information. It wasn't a "cheap" board by any means even though it isn't a top of the line board. It's a mid-tiered board that should be fine for overclocking. Even budget boards come with LLC in the Bios. Hell, even my 8yrs+ Gigabyte board has LLC in the Bios.

Regardless, I should have delved deeper into the issue but my circumstances were unique. I originally chose an Asus board but it was dead on install. So I swapped it for a Gigabyte board which worked fine until I upgraded my processor to the i5 6600K (I had an i3 6300 before that). After that I could not get any memory to work with that combo, it is a known issue apparently. After the Gigabyte experience I decided to go with the MSI Z170A M5. The price was slightly more then the Gigabyte and it said, right on the box, that it was made for overclocking and gaming. I made the decision inside the store so I really didn't have a lot of time to research it. Bad on me. Do you think I should exchange it for the MSI M7? Today is the last day for me to be able to do another exchange. I'd rather not go that route, to be honest. I've had enough issues and I'm sick of rebuilding my rig at this point.

I'm using a Cooler Master 212 Hyper LED. My idle temps are roughly (depending on ambient room temps) between 21c-29c (and depending on my Vcore/Overclock setting). During load the temps depend on the overclock settings but average is between 60c (load) and 68c-81c (Very high load) when using stress testing software like IBT. Haven't been able to pass Prime95 on Blend yet.

P.S., Yeah, I've played a little DayZ and War Thunder, but neither game puts a serious amount of stress on the CPU and my GPU is outdated (PNY GT 740 DDR3 2GB).

I don't think I lost the silicon lottery, I really think this Mobo is limiting me. There have been issues with this specific board and it's overclocking abilities. Sure, the YouTube videos and written reviews all make it look to be a really solid overclocking board but what they don't tell you is they are depending on the overclocking software, which boosts the Vcore up to 1420v, which is definitely on the high side of things. There is a slight chance I have a bum chip for overclocking but right now it seems to be the board to me.

System specs relevant to my issue:

NZXT S340 Mid-Tower Case.
MSI Z1780A Gaming M5 Motherboard.
Intel Skylake 3.5Ghz 6600K Processor.
16GB of Crucial Ballistix Sport LT RAM 16-16-16-39.
212 Hyper LED Cooler Master CPU Cooler.
Four case fans (Corsair AF120 Red LED Quiet Edition x2 for Intake)
- (One NZXT FNV2 Airflow Fan for back Exhaust & One Cougar CF-D14HB-R Quite Series 140mm Top Exhaust Fan)
*Haven't installed the Cougar yet, right now another NZXT FNV2 Airflow is in the top Exhaust position.

 

[pendragon1]

meant cheaper as in price not quality.

well I guess I am wrong according to msi this board is "built for OCing"

guess you missed those parts. have you tried a bios update and bumping ram voltage and manual timings yet? cooling and temps are fine so if that doesn't work then yeah go exchange it. but keep in mind what we've said about that crucial ram...

 

[Laz322]

No, I actually wrote my reply before seeing them, no big deal. I wasn't upset or anything. Well, I've ran into a bit of good luck (or a blessing). I set everything to defaults and just changed the multiplier from 35 to 40 and never touched the voltage. I just left it on auto. I passed Prime95 finally...shew! I went back into the Bios and changed the multiplier again, this time to 41. Ran Prime and failed after ten minutes. Went back into the Bios and raised the voltage by 0.050v and ran Prime95 again, passed this time. Went into the Bios and turned on XMP and everything is stable. Temps got a little hot at 4.1GHz, averaging maybe 67c under load and maxing out at 73c in Prime95 (for maybe a 10th of a second). I'll try 4.2 next, without touching the Vcore and see what happens.

It's starting to feel like I'm reaching the temperature limits, am I? I've never gone over 73c during Prime95. When should I stop, i.e., at what temperature? Oh yeah, my Bios is current according to MSI though there is a 1.B0 Bios and I am using 1.A0. MSI put it out last week but when I checked back again it was gone. Now it has reappeared. I think I'll stay with this version until I need to change for a specific reason.

Thanks for the help,

-laz.

P.S., What did you say about Crucial ram again?

 

[pendragon1]

glad youre getting somewhere.
re crucial ram: every single set of crucial ram that I have used needed the voltage to be bumped up just a bit to be totally stable and some needed the timings set manually. mine is supposed to be 1.5v but I needed 1.6v and manual timings for it to stabilize and has never had a problems since. so if yours is 1.35v bump it to 1.4v.