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Triple Buffering Cures V-Sync Input Lag?

Interesting subject! I always use v-sync in games. I can't stand screen tearing and to be honest, I never notice any input lag. I guess it is more obvious to some people than others.

On the subject of v-sync and triple buffering, I heard somewhere that triple buffering under v-sync only worked in opengl. I never heard the cold hard facts on this. Anyone know the real deal?

I always enable triple buffering in the nvidia control panel but never noticed any major difference in gameplay so I dont know if it is working or not.
 
Tripple buffering is only available to OpenGL games, DirectX has no such feature, and since 99.9% of games at the moment are DirectX this isn't really an issue.

I was under the impression that tripple buffering was an additional option, from my understanding tripple buffering doesn't necessarily include Vsync, I'm fairly sure you can use tripple buffering without Vsync although there wouldn't be a great deal of point. I may very well be wrong here so anyone who knows for sure or has a source for solid info please speak up.

When it comes to the cable and monitor, I believe the buffer just remains a constantly signal on the cable and most monitors from my understanding simply map what is on the cable to their internal memory which is what is used to decide what is drawn to each pixel, I'm not sure if that has a sample time or if that is more or less instant, I suspect it's sampled very quickly and that the number of tears you get on screen just grows in a linear relationship to your frame rate.
 
Has anyone confirmed a tool that allows true tripple buffering in DirectX games which is true tripple buffering and not frames rendered ahead?

Surely this would have to be a function of the DirectX API and not something you can just code yourself and alter the way the graphics card behaves, isnt that the whole point of DirectX?
 
Of course TB works in directx, why people dont use it, cos they are dumb ignorants, they just want to play games, they mind is not capable of such technicality,

how many people play games on pc? 30%
how many people overclock the pc? 10%
how many use vsync? 5%
how many use TB? less then 1%
 
wow...chill

Ignorance is not the same as being dumb, of the few more technically minded of us there is still a large gap in knoweldge here... from what I can see it's not part of the design spec of DirectX nor do GPU manufacturers like Nvidia and AMD support TB in DirectX directly...

Anyway my questions above remain unanswered.
 
I used vsync with triple buffering on accident in l4d for a little bit. I noticed the mouse lag. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but something was definately off. I feel that even with triple bufffering the negatives(mouse lag) outweight the benifits(no tearing). Also since I got a dell 2209wa and run at 75Hz refresh rate, screen tareing isn't as big a deal.
 
Triple-buffering should make input lag worse, not better. The reason being the system has now rendered yet another extra frame of video before taking your input into account. sure, once the buffer gets full, frames are discarded, but generally speaking larger buffer = more latency. It's just like professional audio recording. When you buffer more samples (frames of animation in this case) you have a longer lag between input and output.
 
DeerSteak said:
Triple-buffering should make input lag worse, not better. The reason being the system has now rendered yet another extra frame of video before taking your input into account. sure, once the buffer gets full, frames are discarded, but generally speaking larger buffer = more latency. It's just like professional audio recording. When you buffer more samples (frames of animation in this case) you have a longer lag between input and output.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that is backwards. Triple buffering, if it works, is supposed to reduce input lag - it is advertised to allow running vsync on without the input lag hit you normally take (which is what the Anandtech article is saying). Not sure about the whole OpenGL/DirectX thing though. The point I took from the Anandtech article is that what the cards are doing now isn't really triple-buffering (maybe because DirectX doesn't support it?) but is instead rendering ahead, which is bad.

I may have mis-read the article though, it was late.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Has anyone confirmed a tool that allows true tripple buffering in DirectX games which is true tripple buffering and not frames rendered ahead?

Surely this would have to be a function of the DirectX API and not something you can just code yourself and alter the way the graphics card behaves, isnt that the whole point of DirectX?
Click to expand...

ATI Tray tools lets you :)

Just make a custom EXE for the game, and the options it in there
 
I used Triple Buffering to reduce the control/mouse issues of Dead Space and it worked great. Without it on the game was unplayable.
 
bigdogchris said:
I used Triple Buffering to reduce the control/mouse issues of Dead Space and it worked great. Without it on the game was unplayable.
Click to expand...

Dead Space is a DX game right?

Did you enable triple buffering in nvidia control panel or are you using ATI?

Come to think of it, I am almost positive triple buffering DOES work in DX games because I remember a while back in a game I played, the FPS was locked at 30 with v-sync enabled. Then, when I enabled triple buffering in control panel, the FPS went up to 60.

I have a feeling the game was Oblivion, but can't remember %100

Here's an article that explains why I experienced that phenomena
 
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I just tried d3doverrider and it doesnt work enough for me. The input lag is still there and very annoying.
 
bigdogchris said:
I used Triple Buffering to reduce the control/mouse issues of Dead Space and it worked great. Without it on the game was unplayable.
Click to expand...
we already went through this before. if you enabled from the standard control panel then you got no triple buffering because that is for opengl only. remember how silly you looked posting all those links trying to prove your point when all they did was confirm what I was telling you all along. you have to use nhancer or some over app to force triple buffering for DX games. now some games like L4D have that type of app built right into the game and you can select triple buffering from within the actual game.

"We also hope more developers will start making triple buffering the default option in their games, as it will deliver the best experience to gamers interested in both quality and performance. There are only a handful of games that include triple buffering as a built in option, and NVIDIA and AMD drivers currently only allow forcing triple buffering in OpenGL games. This really needs to change, as there is no reason we shouldn't see pervasive triple buffering today". http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3591&p=4
 
Skakruk said:
What game did you try it with? I find results can vary between games, which leads me to my next question:

Why is it that V-Sync causes more input lag in some games than it does in others?

For example, enabling V-Sync and Triple Buffer in UT2004 results in input lag so bad that the game is all but unplayable, but enabling V-Sync and Triple Buffer in CoD4 creates barely any input lag at all.

For both UT2004 and CoD4, I was forcing V-Sync and Triple Buffer via D3DOverrider, and all mouse filtering etc. was disabled in both games.

Shouldn't V-Sync always cause exactly the same delay, irrespective of what game it's running with?
Click to expand...

copy-paste from that behardware article

"With a 60 Hz monitor, buffer B is read 60 times per second, but it doesn´t mean that it is updated 60 times per second! If the graphic card is still capable of calculating the image in less than 1/60th of second, it is perfect, the delay will always be 1/60th of a second. If the graphic card takes more time, it finishes the calculation after the monitor refreshment at the only moment when it can invert the buffer and will have to wait for the next refreshing. It means that the same image will be displayed two times. The first time, it will be 2/60th of a second late and the second time 3/60th of second. The problem is accentuated by the fact that the calculation time of an image is variable in the game and the delay can increase from 1/60th to 3/60th while the scene progresses. This can lead to a significant delay in addition to the framerate disruption. In Vsync ON, it is crucial to have a system capable of ensuring fps at least as high as the refreshing rate. We don´t decrease from 60 to 50 FPS but directly from 60 to 30 even if the average can mask it.

It is also helpful to understand that the game engine has a role to play and that triple buffering can reduce the shifting that happens in VSync ON at the expense of a higher generalised delay.

All this to say that you can complicate the calculation by changing the initial parameters. If you think this is fun, you can start all over again and estimate that the graphic card won´t sustain a framerate of 60 or 100 fps in the following examples. I took the first option."
 
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