TR4 Dead?

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by MrRuckus, May 16, 2019.

  1. MrRuckus

    MrRuckus Limp Gawd

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    So I keep reading that Threadripper has been removed from AMD's roadmap. I dont see many articles regarding this? Does this mean Gen 1 TR4 adopters are gonna be left out in the cold when Ryzen 3000 is released?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_SP3

    It looks like a Threadripper socket (SP3r2) while identical in size, will not support an EPYC Proc?

    Just trying to see where AMD is going and if they're really going to kick the HEDT crowd in the nuts and kill off TR4?
    Im just curious because I was looking at possibly building a 7nm Threadripper build.

    Anyone have any other info on this and if its incorrect?
     
  2. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Some of the rumors swirling about point to AMD earmarking all the Zen 2 7nm cores they get for Epyc & Ryzen 3000-series CPUs...
     
  3. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Per der8auer, they're electrically the same, just firmware prevents it. No way AMD kills off that cash cow.
     
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  4. Thatguybil

    Thatguybil [H]Lite

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    Reports of TR being dead are likely exaggerated. A more reasonable expectations is that it will launch 3-6 months after Ryzen 3000.
     
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  5. somebrains

    somebrains Gawd

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    They need SKUs for higher density ram, and populated pcie.

    TR isn't dying.
     
  6. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    AMD still need a platform for 24 and 32 cores.

    isn't EPYC getting 64+?
     
  7. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can't say for sure but my guess is that AMD is probably saving dies for AM4.

    If the AM4 CPUs are expected to have 2 8/4 core chiplets maximum (8+8 or 8+4 cores), threadripper would need at least 4-8 chiplets in order to be worth upgrading to (4 chiplets x8 cores each = 32 cores minimum to trounce the 2990WX). If the die are in short supply, it would make sense to delay releasing threadripper until supply normalizes.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  8. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    TR has always followed 6-7 months after am4, so that means a Dec or Jan launch, probably pushed back to early 2020 hence removal from 2019 roadmap.
     
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  9. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Threadripper is just being pushed back. There is probably some devastation to Intel type optimizations they are able to pull out of the 7nm nether regions they are implementing on the next TR gen. Best guess is 6 months down the road before release.
     
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  10. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would not worry about a thing regarding Threadripper like most people are saying it is just for next year and to be honest , skip it ;).

    This might sound weird but the investment made into X399 is not going to last long if (like on the desktop platform) DDR5 is going to be introduced (around next year as well).

    After AMD releases DDR5 for the Threadripper platform. You would get some better value.
    Not sure where you got this sentiment from but why would AMD do that? The way that AMD is using chiplets makes TR a part of the ecosystem which allows them to use cpu otherwise which would sell cheaper or just be discarded.
     
  11. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah and the fact with the now 2x core density per ccx at 7nm, a 64core threadripper is 100% going to happen.

    I wont need it though. I'll have a 12 core zen 2 and my 2950x good for a few years to come.
     
  12. TheSlySyl

    TheSlySyl Limp Gawd

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    No. It'll happen again, probably with new motherboards and PCI-E 4 support. Just not in 2019.
     
  13. Aluminum

    Aluminum Gawd

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    Personally I suspect they are going to shift the platform a bit, a chance to upgrade the features too.

    TR was always kind of a last-minute "why not - we can do this" that their engineers pushed upwards.

    One path they could go is to just have specific Epyc SKUs be the new TR, and release a workstation template for the motherboards. X570 or its equivalent "X599" could still be used alongside the Epyc socket.
     
  14. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    THere is no reason x399 can't accept the next gen Threadripper. These boards have gobs of power delivery etc... no reason. So it will be excited to see the next gen performance when it happens. I will be ready for it.
     
  15. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    That would assume that the TDP doesn't increase from what it is today. We don't have much of a reason to think that it would in theory, but you never know until the product becomes available or at least hits reviewers hands.
     
  16. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    I am patiently awaiting TR4 so that I can grab a TR3 2990wx for a bit cheaper than what it currently is going for. I am back to doing freelance video editing and 16 cores ain't cutting it.
     
  17. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I think you are confused. The term "TR4" refers to socket TR4. That's what Threadripper uses as opposed to AM4 for standard Ryzen CPU's. There are no socket TR3 processors. Threadripper's based on Zen are 1xxx series Threadrippers while Zen+ chips are 2xxx series. A theoretical Zen 2 would probably be a 3xxx series.
     
  18. Aluminum

    Aluminum Gawd

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    If AMD wanted to, it could release CPUs that work on TR4 and SP3, they are extremely similar. TR4 implementation doesn't even use a lot of the pins.
     
  19. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Per der8aur, they're the same electrically, just firmware prevents epyc in tr boards (with half the memory channels working). Not sure if it'd go the other way, but most likely would with half of the memory slots being dead. This tells me there's no way they'll drop support for TR4 given zen2 epyc is sticking with sp3 and will be compatible with existing boards, same as am4.

    https://www.pcgamer.com/overclocker...-core-epyc-cpu-in-a-threadripper-motherboard/
     
  20. Aluminum

    Aluminum Gawd

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    Well a few of the GPIO pins or whatever are treated different, but you're right that firmware can do whatever it wants with them, so the cover-up hack worked somewhat. TR4 basically just doesn't connect half the ram and pcie pins.

    Zen 2 I/O die means a 4-channel Epyc would have the same memory latency/performance as a 4-channel TR. No more "remote cores" like with the WX. In a way they are all remote now, but with a better implementation. The Zen IMC itself already can handle unbuffered and registered, I doubt that changes in I/O dies.

    This 7nm die approach is pretty sweet, design one good chiplet and 2 or 3 I/O dies of increasing capabilities and combine as needed. Fortunately they are still hungry and competitive so I don't see any Intel-style endless feature murdering segmenting happening soon.

    TR was the idea that came out of the engineers that they went ahead and ran with, given how successful its been I think they will shift things to adopt it more completely into the product stack. We gon' get Epyc "Lite" one way or another, some ways they could do it would be closer to "Full-Blast" though.
     
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  21. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Who ever started (in actual professional media) this fruggin rumor that Threadripper is dead should lose all journalistic credibility and be fired.

    Incredibly retarded to spread rumors like this in news channels.

    AMDs own damn roadmap refreshed and re released just days ago show Threadripper Gen 3 slated down the road in 7+nm process.

    FFS we need to squash this b.s. now.


    Now... Because Intel is going to keep the HEDT market alive and well for creators etc... it's very relevant that AMD remain holding market share there. Thus TR is going no where. It is absolutely justifiable for AMD to mature 7nm to the + level and then build TR 3rd gen. They also have many corporate spies, yes so does Intel, that literally commit espionage on each other. AMD know what Intel is going to do long long before the public and vice versa.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  22. Jandor

    Jandor Limp Gawd

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    Are you sure ?
    I believe Threadripper 3 will come out in 7nm later. TSMC must be hardworking for everybody on the 7nm at the same time. Good to know they will have to lower Huawei expectations on HISilicon 7 nm ARM. This is an opportunity for AMD to produce more 7nm chips.
    Zen 3 will come with 7nm+ technology in 2020. It will be only an optimization of Zen 2, using 7nm EUV, like Zen+ over Zen using 12nm instead of 14nm.

    However, there a problem with TR4 and it is the unbuffered RAM. It needs to go buffered and ECC to be extended to more than 128GB which is kind of limited on a 64 core CPU working with 4 GPU.
     
  23. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    You got that three phase power supply...?!? ;^p
     
  24. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    lol but I do run my system on 240v US power. Just because I have the socket in the room I went ahead and built a plug for my PC from Home Depot stuff and works great.
     
  25. Hifihedgehog

    Hifihedgehog n00b

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    So remember #NuggsForCarter? It sounds like we need to start a campaign called #ChipletsForThreadripper! ;)
     
  26. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why? According to the AUTHORITIES - those who not only believe speculative hog wash but ram it down throats as absolute fact - threadripper is dead. So we dont need chiplets or anything anymore. Dead processor. Because they said so.
     
  27. Aluminum

    Aluminum Gawd

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    32GB unbuffered on standard dimms should be shipping this year actually, the Samsung dies for it are already in production. ECC is independent of buffer/register and only requires the extra logical bit (8+1 chip usually) along with motherboard design considerations, all current Zen cores already work with it. (not sure why in consumer APU they specifically won't enable it)

    The MC can support both unbuffered and normal registered fairly easily (obviously not running at the same time) and I would very be surprised if they actually made I/O dies that only do one or the other.

    Reminder to all that Threadripper is really just a branding. This shit is all just Zen cores in various configurations. They could take an "Epyc" chip, give it firmware + accompanying bios support to be a specific SKU, put it in the socket of their choosing (which limits space for cores & exposable features based on available pins) and slap the name on the box. Nothing is dying either way.
     
  28. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's essentially what the WX chips are. I could understand if they get rid of the dual die TR's, but there are 4-8 die TR's they can build in their place. I'm betting next gen TR is 24/32/48/64 core stack instead of 12/16/24/32.
     
  29. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not a lot of guesswork there, considering the AM4 Ryzens will be covering the 6/8/12/16 core product slots...

    The 12 & 16 core Ryzen 3000-series CPUs and the 24 & 32 core Threadripper 3000-series CPUs should be the high-end sweet spots for enthusiasts / content creators...
     
  30. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

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    Im guessing TR will release with the 16 core Ryzen, if it will come
     
  31. Jandor

    Jandor Limp Gawd

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    Actually a 16 core 1950x + lower cost X399 may be of better value than a Ryzen 3900X
     
  32. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, the pricing is so cheap on 1st gen tr4, I just went with one of those. $299 for a 1920x vs $499 for the r9.... Also probably means next gen tr4 will not be cheap, but I'm thinking I'll jump to 16c 3rd gen as it should clock to the moon with 180W to play with.
     
  33. somebrains

    somebrains Gawd

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    Hedt is about ram density and iops.
    Maybe multi gpu, that's not my thing but other guys I work with live and die by quadros making work.
    A minority need networking on top of horizontal resources.

    You know if you need it bc someone at work issued you something, and you'd like to white box a solution to ideas not work related.

    Maybe you are a gun for hire and there are specific things prebuilt workstations can't do as issued you want to try. I can't stress how useful 4hr onsite service windows are when the workflow had a deadline and penalties for missing delivery.

    Sometimes you are just curious how the other half lives, that's fine too.
     
  34. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    This thread should be locked and forgotten.

    Dr. Su, CEO AMD, just announced They WILL be making more threadrippers in 7nm.

    So this discussion no longer has merit
     
  35. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dude, I covered that about 7 hours ago... ;^p
     
  36. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes but people are still discussing this thread as if they didnt see that.
     
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  37. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    There's a difference between discussing if Threadripper (as a CPU) is dead vs. the current Threadripper TR4 socket which is what the thread title is asking.
     
  38. crazycuz20

    crazycuz20 [H]Lite

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    I don't think TR4 is dead. Just delayed. A couple of points:
    - TR4 sales aren't as lucrative as mainstream AM4 (quantity) or EPYC (higher margins) and so will take a backseat in R&D to Zen 2 and EPYC
    - They'll want to release a new chipset with PCIE-4 with the next TR4 generation
    - TR4 will probably use lower quality EPYC chiplets which means they need enough inventory from EPYC wafers

    I also think that one of the reasons we haven't seen 16 core Zen 2 is because they want to be able to announce it with TR4.
    - AMD doesn't want to cannibalize TR4 sales from power users or content creators by having them invest in a 16 core Zen 2 when they can sell you a 16/32 core TR4
    - 12 cores in the Zen 2 7/7 release makes sense because it allows AMD to use chiplets that don't have a working 8 cores
     
  39. chithanh

    chithanh Gawd

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    I don't think any of these is true.

    For one, AMD would sell orders of magnitude more 16-cores on AM4 compared to TR4. So any threat to TR4 sales is insignificant compared to the opportunity in AM4 sales.
    And they put 8-core chiplets in the 3700X/3800X, which I again imagine will sell as good or better than the 3900X. If AMD needed the 8-core chiplets for Epyc so badly, I would have expected two 4-core chiplets instead.

    What I rather think is that the AM4 ecosystem is not ready. A 16-core will consume >105 W most likely. Board partners still investigate if/how this can run on previous AM4 mobos, and once they conclude it will launch.