Toxikk just went live

itschop said:
I believe these arena games died off for a reason. They require too much skill and time investment to get good for the average, and even some above average gamers. And the player bases are just too small to have a proper ranking system/matchmaking nowadays.

Newcomers to the series will be destroyed by the people that have years of arena experience and already know how to control maps, time powerup pickups, and experience is mastering the movement system of strafe jumping/bunny hopping. And it's demoralizing going up against the people that are at the peak of the skill ceiling because the player pools are so small.

I think this game would do a lot better as a median point between that hardcore arena game and the casual type games like BF4. I know a lot of the hardcore audience would hate the idea, but they need to slow the game down a bit and dumb down the movement system to make it less complex if you want to appease to a larger audience. If they don't, I see this dying off in a few months just like the 50 other arena clones, unless the unreleased vehicle gameplay is amazing.

With that said, it's still a pretty fun game if you have money to burn, but I don't think it's worth the asking price at the moment if you're picky with spending on games. Without the graphics and awesome trailer they put out, nobody would be paying attention purely from the gameplay perspective. It's currently just 1 map and a few weapons.

Keep in mind Unreal is developing a new arena FPS that will be free that most of the hardcore audience will flock to when released.
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What would be the point of slowing/dumbing the game down? All their marketing and reasoning for developing the game has been to create an old-school arena shooter because arena fans haven't really gotten something to play recently that wasn't screwed over by F2P, G4WL, no dedicated servers, etc., etc. The game would serve no purpose if you changed it to be more like everything else.

And yes, anyone picky about where they spend money on games shouldn't be buying early-access at all. Buying an early access beta game is only going to be "worth it" if you're interested in what the devs are doing and plan to play/test the game. Trying to review the current product as if it's representative of anything but the first beta build is ridiculous.
 
Aix. said:
What would be the point of slowing/dumbing the game down? All their marketing and reasoning for developing the game has been to create an old-school arena shooter because arena fans haven't really gotten something to play recently that wasn't screwed over by F2P, G4WL, no dedicated servers, etc., etc. The game would serve no purpose if you changed it to be more like everything else.

And yes, anyone picky about where they spend money on games shouldn't be buying early-access at all. Buying an early access beta game is only going to be "worth it" if you're interested in what the devs are doing and plan to play/test the game. Trying to review the current product as if it's representative of anything but the first beta build is ridiculous.
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I literally gave the reason in my post you quoted:

I think this game would do a lot better as a median point between that hardcore arena game and the casual type games like BF4. I know a lot of the hardcore audience would hate the idea, but they need to slow the game down a bit and dumb down the movement system to make it less complex if you want to appease to a larger audience.
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This game will fall to the wayside into the pile of other Arena clones that failed. The playerbase is already small and decreasing by the day - http://steamcharts.com/app/324810
 
itschop said:
I literally gave the reason in my post you quoted:



This game will fall to the wayside into the pile of other Arena clones that failed. The playerbase is already small and decreasing by the day - http://steamcharts.com/app/324810
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Steamcharts for a beta with only one tiny map? Again, you're treating this game as though it's finished instead of a days-old beta open only to folks that pre-ordered or purchased early access. There's barely any game to play in its current state, and the game that is there isn't even balanced beyond the devs getting it out the door to give us a taste.

As such, I don't really understand your doomsayer approach here... so the game was too fast for you on day one of the beta, better proclaim the game dead unless the devs completely change it (despite specifically marketing and developing the game as a fast-paced "old-school" FPS and banking on the size of that player niche to fuel their success)? Not every FPS that has failed recently has been because the game itself was bad or "too fast/slow/difficult" - Tribes Ascend, with its awful F2P/no dedicated servers model comes to mind, for example - so we'll have to wait and see how Toxikk pans out.
 
Yep, the game isn't released yet and there's only 1 map at the moment. It's not surprising that few people are playing it right now, when all you have is 1 map.
 
Aix. said:
Steamcharts for a beta with only one tiny map? Again, you're treating this game as though it's finished instead of a days-old beta open only to folks that pre-ordered or purchased early access. There's barely any game to play in its current state, and the game that is there isn't even balanced beyond the devs getting it out the door to give us a taste.
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The core gameplay is there, it's not hard to form a general opinion of how the game will be. And there are plenty of games that are in early access that have very large and sustainable playerbase. The reason why I shared the steamcharts link was the game lost nearly 70% of it's initial playerbase within the first week.

As such, I don't really understand your doomsayer approach here... so the game was too fast for you on day one of the beta, better proclaim the game dead unless the devs completely change it (despite specifically marketing and developing the game as a fast-paced "old-school" FPS and banking on the size of that player niche to fuel their success)? Not every FPS that has failed recently has been because the game itself was bad or "too fast/slow/difficult" - Tribes Ascend, with its awful F2P/no dedicated servers model comes to mind, for example - so we'll have to wait and see how Toxikk pans out.
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No, the game wasn't too fast for me. And if you read what I said, I stated that I enjoyed the game, I just don't think it will have success is what I'm saying. As someone who grew up on the Starsiege Tribes series and played strictly the fastest mods (baseLT and UltraRen) in the series on top of an already fast paced game, I don't mind the speed. :)
 
It seems to me like it's trying to be Halo combined with UT. Looks pretty generic to me honestly, I don't even really care to try it. Weapons seem boring from the few vids I've seen of it. I too will probably wait for ut4, and I'm not holding my breath for that one either.
 
horse said:
It seems to me like it's trying to be Halo combined with UT. Looks pretty generic to me honestly, I don't even really care to try it. Weapons seem boring from the few vids I've seen of it. I too will probably wait for ut4, and I'm not holding my breath for that one either.
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Arena FPS has not aged well, IMO.
 
yourgrandma said:
You haven't aged well.
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Ha!

That's probably closer to the truth. People get old and can't hang anymore. I'll be 38 next month, but I can still manage some decent Q3A play. I'm by no means the best, and I'm not quite as good as I once was (when I had endless hours to play and practice on a LAN with my friends,) but I still do ok.

Whether this game turns out to be cool or not does not hinge on a one map test. However, and this is unfortunate if it turns out to be the case, it could very well end up just another clone. It kind of has that look to it. I honestly think that UT4, and possibly some future iteration of an id game is all the hope this genre has left. I hate to say it, because really other than things like the emergent RPG shooters, twitch arena shooters are my favorite style. I hope I'm proven wrong one million-fold. I really do.

A new Quake game would fill the void for me. I still play all of the previous ones, but a new injection into the series by a dev that has the potential to pull it off, (if they tried) would be just the thing. I'm still hopeful on UT4 too. Maybe with some luck Doom 4 will have some multiplayer options. I haven't followed it very closely even though I'm looking very much forward to it.

This game though, looks like UT2003 and Halo mixed (as someone alluded to above) which doesn't really appeal to me. Maybe they have some gritty Quake-like content that we just haven't seen, but unless they do, I probably won't think much of this one.
 
J3RK said:
Ha!

That's probably closer to the truth. People get old and can't hang anymore. I'll be 38 next month, but I can still manage some decent Q3A play. I'm by no means the best, and I'm not quite as good as I once was (when I had endless hours to play and practice on a LAN with my friends,) but I still do ok.

Whether this game turns out to be cool or not does not hinge on a one map test. However, and this is unfortunate if it turns out to be the case, it could very well end up just another clone. It kind of has that look to it. I honestly think that UT4, and possibly some future iteration of an id game is all the hope this genre has left. I hate to say it, because really other than things like the emergent RPG shooters, twitch arena shooters are my favorite style. I hope I'm proven wrong one million-fold. I really do.

A new Quake game would fill the void for me. I still play all of the previous ones, but a new injection into the series by a dev that has the potential to pull it off, (if they tried) would be just the thing. I'm still hopeful on UT4 too. Maybe with some luck Doom 4 will have some multiplayer options. I haven't followed it very closely even though I'm looking very much forward to it.

This game though, looks like UT2003 and Halo mixed (as someone alluded to above) which doesn't really appeal to me. Maybe they have some gritty Quake-like content that we just haven't seen, but unless they do, I probably won't think much of this one.
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I think UT4 has the biggest potential if for no other reason than brand recognition, although to be honest it's still unclear to me how the devs are going to make money - I.e. what specifically is going to be "free" and what are they going to charge for? Any number of poor decisions could tank the game, just as the original plan for Toxikk (extra charge to host a server through their service) would have killed it had they not listened to the players.

Most of the time these games die off quickly because the devs fall to give us the basic tools to "make it great" on our own: modding ability and/or tools, and a dedicated server client that works... that's it. If those new Dota2 tools from Valve are any indication, Source 2 will be amazing for a new generation of FPS games... if they ever release it!
 
so what's the verdict now that it hit Early Access?...game sounded fun when it was first announced
 
polonyc2 said:
so what's the verdict now that it hit Early Access?...game sounded fun when it was first announced
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Honestly? I played it for a little over a week and haven't touched it since.

I know they released a new update, but a vehicle-centric map doesn't really do it for me.
 
polonyc2 said:
so what's the verdict now that it hit Early Access?...game sounded fun when it was first announced
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I bought it played about 5 hours and realized why Arena FPS died a while ago...it's too random. There is too much randomness in a match and most players can't hit the side of a barn door consistently. Oh and rockets > Nuclear warhead.

I just had a nostalgia moment for this game that didn't really pan out. Arena FPS is just downright awful compared to tactical shooters we have today.
 
Aix. said:
I think UT4 has the biggest potential if for no other reason than brand recognition, although to be honest it's still unclear to me how the devs are going to make money - I.e. what specifically is going to be "free" and what are they going to charge for? Any number of poor decisions could tank the game, just as the original plan for Toxikk (extra charge to host a server through their service) would have killed it had they not listened to the players.

Most of the time these games die off quickly because the devs fall to give us the basic tools to "make it great" on our own: modding ability and/or tools, and a dedicated server client that works... that's it. If those new Dota2 tools from Valve are any indication, Source 2 will be amazing for a new generation of FPS games... if they ever release it!
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The goal is to get people familiar with UE4. Money will be made from modders who pay monthly subscription fees.
 
naticus said:
Arena FPS is just downright awful compared to tactical shooters we have today.
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I still like Arena fps and I don't understand why most people don't play it. But anyway, that thing that confuse me the most, is why they still make Arena shooter when we know the poor popularity of it. Is it a sing a corruption among us.
 
Honestly, I like a well made arena shooters. Be it TPS (like GunZ) or first person. Speed of the gameplay will of course reduce the potential player base, but that is not really an argument against not having them around. I hope UT4 is a good one, did not like UT3 too much when it first came out.
 
naticus said:
I bought it played about 5 hours and realized why Arena FPS died a while ago...it's too random. There is too much randomness in a match and most players can't hit the side of a barn door consistently. Oh and rockets > Nuclear warhead.

I just had a nostalgia moment for this game that didn't really pan out. Arena FPS is just downright awful compared to tactical shooters we have today.
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What do you mean by "too much randomness in a match"? People blundering into you from all sides? If none of them can aim well then what's the problem?

Comparing arena FPS to tactical shooters is like saying there's no point to playing WipeOut-style racing games when we have F1 racing games...you aren't even talking about the same kinds of games or the same kinds of players. The skillsets required to play them well are completely different.
 
naticus said:
I bought it played about 5 hours and realized why Arena FPS died a while ago...it's too random. There is too much randomness in a match and most players can't hit the side of a barn door consistently. Oh and rockets > Nuclear warhead.

I just had a nostalgia moment for this game that didn't really pan out. Arena FPS is just downright awful compared to tactical shooters we have today.
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I agree with your statement in general, but that doesn't translate to highly tuned, properly made arena shooters. Quake 3 Arena is every bit as good now as it was when it was released. It's balanced to perfection. Every weapon can be used effectively. There are tricks to learn, people can develop their own completely different, yet effective styles of play, etc. I enjoy hopping in a match of Q3A now as if I was still on the LAN in the house I lived in with a bunch of friends when the game was new. Granted, it's getting harder and harder to get people to play it with me these days. (I don't generally play online.)

Tactical games are great, but there's a very different set of skills being applied. There is room for both.

The problem I see with Toxikk, is that it's like a mishmash of Halo MP, some of the later UT levels, vehicles, etc. It doesn't nail any of them perfectly (from the little I've seen,) and tries to cover a lot of old ground. I think UT4, or if by some miracle we get a proper id-produced Q5, could actually make the genre enjoyable again. They have a cohesive style, and don't try to duplicate aspects of other games.

I haven't played Toxikk, it's just the impression I get.

I guess I personally am looking for a more gritty, dark, Quake-like experience though, so my view is a little slanted toward that.
 
I find it interesting that this thread is about a new Arena FPS game from developers that stated from the get-go that they were looking to get back to the 'roots' of the genre, specifically making a game for people looking for an Arena FPS game...

...and half the posts are either from people taking the time to say "Arena is dead! I don't like these games! These games aren't for me!" or people looking to piggyback on the thread to promote other Arena FPS games.

There's no "verdict" on this game at this point since it isn't close to finished yet.
 
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Aix. said:
I find it interesting that this thread is about a new Arena FPS game from developers that stated from the get-go that they were looking to get back to the 'roots' of the genre, specifically making a game for people looking for an Arena FPS game...

...and half the posts are either from people taking the time to say "Arena is dead! I don't like these games! These games aren't for me!" or people looking to piggyback on the thread to promote other Arena FPS games.

There's no "verdict" on this game at this point since it isn't close to finished yet.
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I think I rambled too much in my post. :D Basically what I'm saying is that I like Quake and want more Quake. :p (also that I really liked UT, but the later ones didn't grab me) Never really liked Halo MP. This game looks like a mix of Halo and Later UT, so unless it really surprises me, I probably won't be into it.
 
Hmm, never heard of this game. Going to keep an eye on it to see how others like it.
 
v0.8 was released the other day. Is anyone still playing this game?

I haven't touched it since the UT pre-alpha was released.
 
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