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Torchlight 2

arr4ws said:
lack of respec is a mistake to be honest. I have to roll a new char everytime i want to try out a skill tree?

eh...
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I've made a few mistakes with my embermage. I wish I could do a full respec as well before I even finish my first playthrough.
 
I just used the shared stash that had a bunch of full respec potions in it.

Tried out different builds for my mage. It didn't give you the "suspicious" flag or anything.

I'd suggest that.
 
Lack of respecs prevents FoTM nonsense. If you have a problem with lack of respecs, you should be in a different genre. Look no further than Diablo 2 if you want to see an example of why no respecs can be a great thing.
 
wabbitseason said:
Lack of respecs prevents FoTM nonsense. If you have a problem with lack of respecs, you should be in a different genre. Look no further than Diablo 2 if you want to see an example of why no respecs can be a great thing.
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Except even Diablo 2 realized lack of respec was stupid and gave you an opportunity to do so.

The goal of the game is fun. There is nothing fun about me hitting level 2, and then realizing I had to go on the internet and figure out what to do so I didn't screw myself 30 hours from now.
 
Katalysis said:
Except even Diablo 2 realized lack of respec was stupid and gave you an opportunity to do so.

The goal of the game is fun. There is nothing fun about me hitting level 2, and then realizing I had to go on the internet and figure out what to do so I didn't screw myself 30 hours from now.
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Basically. I've already kind of fudged up, but there's nothing I can do about it. If "there's nothing you can do about it" moments in a game, it's a big fail.

Overall, game kicks ass outside of that.
 
I'd say an infinite number of respecs ruins the game. Then everyone can be everything and there is no need to start a new char. D2 had the right idea where you could only do it a max of 3 times.
 
So you fucked up. Build another character, from scratch, properly. Diablo II implemented respecs long after the bastardization that was 1.10 ruined the game, so that's hardly relevant.
 
yeah but i have 3 other characters that I haven't even touched yet.

with my limited game time, i'm not going to level ANOTHER embermage through the same content just to see how another build compares.

Maybe when I had days of free gaming time I was ok with that, but since I have tons of games to play, and not enough time, respeccing my character until I have it the way I like it is the proper concept for me.
 
One thing I hate is having to resummon nearly everything every time I go to a new level or back to town. It's bad enough so many summons have durations.
 
[L]imey;1039221832 said:
yeah but i have 3 other characters that I haven't even touched yet.

with my limited game time, i'm not going to level ANOTHER embermage through the same content just to see how another build compares.

Maybe when I had days of free gaming time I was ok with that, but since I have tons of games to play, and not enough time, respeccing my character until I have it the way I like it is the proper concept for me.
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Convenience should never stand in the way of proper game design. This an RPG, where you build a character. How meaningless is that character when you can completely change everything about him from the ground up anytime you choose?

By the way, I've got hardly any time for gaming myself. I just don't want designers to cater to people like me at such tremendous cost to the genre.
 
I don't think it's meaningless at all.

While I agree that it's an RPG, and you build a character in a sense, why can't my RPG include a memory wipe where my guy forgets the things he has learned and goes on relearning different skills?

I mean in reality, the first time I respecced, (around level 40) I hadn't a clue what I was doing and I got killed several times before I worked it out.

I'm ok with the concept of retraining at the highest levels of the game, if only because it fits into my idea of what the fantasy world should be like.
 
wabbitseason said:
Convenience should never stand in the way of proper game design. This an RPG, where you build a character. How meaningless is that character when you can completely change everything about him from the ground up anytime you choose?

By the way, I've got hardly any time for gaming myself. I just don't want designers to cater to people like me at such tremendous cost to the genre.
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I'd say the middle ground could be something like:

each talent-point costs to respec... and have it cost enough so that you don't want to do it all the time.

Also, you could have respecs work only on talents, whereas stat points are permanent.
 
wabbitseason said:
Convenience should never stand in the way of proper game design. This an RPG, where you build a character. How meaningless is that character when you can completely change everything about him from the ground up anytime you choose?

By the way, I've got hardly any time for gaming myself. I just don't want designers to cater to people like me at such tremendous cost to the genre.
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Except there is literally no cost to the game? How does having optional respec hurt the game? More importantly, how does not having it help the game? Oh, you fucked up at level 8, now your build isn't viable 30 hours later? Enjoy releveling? That's moronic. I didn't buy Torchlight 2 so I could be hardcore l33t and they certainly did not build the game to be that way either, so why stick on the respec issue as somehow being off limits?

This isn't an RPG. If it is, so is every other video game ever because you are playing the role of something in a game. I have literally zero emotional connection with my character, and less than zero if we are basing it on whether he has 4 points in skill x or 5 points in skill x. That character was already meaningless--it's a loot pinata, dungeon crawler game with a story shell.

You might have a better point if there were less than the hundreds of thousands of point combinations to theorycraft through, and those combinations often require you to horde points for the future and it is literally impossible for a single player to figure out which build is fun without spending the points.

It's a Catch-22--spend the points to figure out what you want to do, but figure out what you want to do before you spend the points. Let's call it what it is: bad game design.
 
[L]imey;1039221922 said:
While I agree that it's an RPG, and you build a character in a sense, why can't my RPG include a memory wipe where my guy forgets the things he has learned and goes on relearning different skills?
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Because then you're only building an amorphous blob with zero definable substance, whose entire meaning is completely summed up by:

1. His level.

2. His gear.

3. Possibly his appearance, which has little relevance in ARPGs.

Literally nothing else about your character matters in any way, and nothing distinguishes your character from those of others.
 
Katalysis said:
Except even Diablo 2 realized lack of respec was stupid and gave you an opportunity to do so.

The goal of the game is fun. There is nothing fun about me hitting level 2, and then realizing I had to go on the internet and figure out what to do so I didn't screw myself 30 hours from now.
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Just because you misplaced a talent point or whatever its called in torchlight doesnt mean you are downright screwed. It just means your char is less than perfect. Just accept that planning ahead and THINKING before DOING is something great that should be rewarded. I hate people who can't make a choice and stick to it and accept they can't have everything handed to them. If there's no risk in anything, why even bother? Where the hell is the fun in that?
 
1. click one of the links on the torchlight steam page (the one about respeccing)
2. download mod. (its just a shared stash file)
3. respec skills/stats until your eyes bleed (profit)
 
wabbitseason said:
Ah yes, the mantra of the casual, entitled online gamer. It's "optional". You don't "have" to use cross-server LFG. You don't "have" to use the respec feature. You don't "have" to use ingame experience boosts of 300% or more.

These things fundamentally change an online game for everyone involved, regardless of whether one individual refuses to take part in them.
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yes, i will agree with you that all of those things suck in a MMO. i have not used any cheats in TL2 or the respect potion thing, and i don't plan to. i have about 7 hours a week that i can play games. TL2 is not a mmo, so you didn't make a point.
 
hfk said:
Just because you misplaced a talent point or whatever its called in torchlight doesnt mean you are downright screwed. It just means your char is less than perfect. Just accept that planning ahead and THINKING before DOING is something great that should be rewarded. I hate people who can't make a choice and stick to it and accept they can't have everything handed to them. If there's no risk in anything, why even bother? Where the hell is the fun in that?
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And out come the army of bullshit "entitled," "casual," "handed to them" statements about a $20 video game.

"Where the hell is the fun in that?" Probably when you realize that at level 2 I don't want to decide if an extra 0.5% life steal on criticals while in frenzy is more valuable than an extra 2 seconds of frenzy time at some unknown level in the future with unknown gear and unknown stat point distribution? Versus any number of other active and passive skills in three trees, with three tiers, with an infinite number of stat and talent combinations?

Explain how wanting to undo "choices" that may no longer be relevant 40 game hours from now having "everything handed" to me? That isn't "THINKING" or "DOING," that is logging on to some cookie-cutter build site and picking one. Like I didn't level up the character those 40 hours? That's incredibly stupid l33t gamer logic that makes no sense. "Oh, you didn't pre-plan your build for endgame content? Noob wants everything handed to him, not like me, internet tough guy who trolled forums for 10 hours before I launched the game so I knew what to do."

I guess that's why Borderlands 2 sucks, because you can respec. Borderlands 2 players are just entitled casual players who want everything handed to them. :rolleyes:

I, and many others, have downloaded respec potions, and you will have NO IDEA if any player's build is original or respecced. It will not cause you any harm whatsoever, and you will never know. If you are that worried about other people respeccing, I suggest you uninstall the game, because you are now going to be constantly paranoid that the other players with you might not be as pure and holy as you.
 
I kinda like the no respec factor. Gives me a good excuse to play through the game again with a different skillset. Character development is one of the major draws for TL2 and being able to respec on-the-fly kinda negates that process. If my character hits a difficulty wall at lvl 70 due to poor choices.. So be it. I'll know better for next time. I think it just increases the longevity of the game.

And as others have mentioned.. If respec is that important to you, there is a mod/hack freely available for all to use :D
 
Respec debates never end with either party understanding the other. I personally have zero use for respec options, but I know people who can't stand being stuck with a role in a role playing game.
 
People flaming respeccing in an aRPG lol now I've heard everything ffs get a life. It's a bit nearsighted to desire systemic enforcement of 'no respec' for an arbitrary character building system that only rewards people who microplan every detail of their character in advance, and thus must spoil with guides rather than learning it themselves, or waste 10 metric shit tons of time leveling up the same characters over and over to refine their builds through trial and error. Anyone who expects PC gamers-at-large to accept either of those solutions is a fool, and anyone that flames respeccing (even 3rd party mod method) as a cheat just makes everyone laugh at you. Your attitude is bad and you should feel bad. Respec is an essential element of all aRPG games, like it or not.
 
wabbitseason said:
Yes, and you're building an amorphous blob with zero definable substance, whose entire meaning is completely summed up by:

1. His level.

2. His gear.

3. Possibly his appearance, which has little relevance in ARPGs.

Literally nothing else about your character matters in any way, and nothing distinguishes your character from those of others. Your self-righteous indignation about this fact is pretty funny though, I'll grant you that.
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You're playing the action RPG computer game you just described, respec or no respec.
 
wabbitseason said:
Diablo 2.

I'm laughing at you, flamer.


I'm also done talking about this. Torchlight 2 is designed this way. Deal with it or go play your preferred game, Diablo 3, where your gear and your level are the only things that matter. Or cheat and feel accomplished about it.
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As I recall Torchlight 2 was designed with mods in mind. :eek:
 
wabbitseason said:
Diablo 2.

I'm laughing at you, flamer.


I'm also done talking about this. Torchlight 2 is designed this way. Deal with it or go play your preferred game, Diablo 3, where your gear and your level are the only things that matter. Or cheat and feel accomplished about it.
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What are you talking about? Diablo 2 respec mods were essential to the game. Especially with advanced stuff like Median XL. Because the original release of Diablo 2 in 2000 didn't have respec, that means using it is a cheat? You touch my trollala.
 
wabbitseason said:
Keep on digging that hole deeper. Diablo 2 had no respecs until long after 1.10. The game was destroyed after 1.09. Diablo 2 mods? Are you serious? Battle.net wasn't an important feature to you..?
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Of course it wasn't, I never once set foot on battle.net, are you mad? Battle.net is full of people like you, who think that status in a video game means something. I put in probably 1000 hours over the years, spent many weeklong lan parties in D2 marathons, all solo/LAN play. You can correctly assume I am not a fan or player of D3.
 
requiem99 said:
What are you talking about? Diablo 2 respec mods were essential to the game. Especially with advanced stuff like Median XL. Because the original release of Diablo 2 in 2000 didn't have respec, that means using it is a cheat? You touch my trollala.
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That's the circular logic he is using to claim Diablo 2 is proof that you don't need respec, while also bashing Diablo 2 for having respec. Obviously, the game was ruined after they added respec. Everyone stopped playing, and the reason Diablo 3 sucks is because it added in respec again. :p

Max Schaefer admitted in a recent interview that he doesn't give a shit about cheating in the game because TL2 has no competitive economy like Diablo 3 so it does not matter (he directly compared the game to Borderlands 2 and said they were the "same model"). If it doesn't ruin the experience for someone else, there is no reason to care.
 
Yeah, fuck options, it totally ruins my gaming experience. I want everyone to play the way I play because my way IS the superior way.

While they're at it, they should really take out town portals and waypoints, and force you to return to town every time you die. I mean waypoints ruin the game completely, it just totally pisses me off that people like using shortcuts in the game when you should be admiring the world.

While they're at it, they might as well only allow to change equipment once per act. I mean people should really know what they need to wear when progressing. My heart sinks when I see multiplayer characters switching gear when they see an upgrade. Swapping gear really disconnects you from emphathizing with your character.

While they're at it, that should give you only 5 seconds to allocate stats and skills. I mean, people should have a full road map of their character progression from the beginning, they shouldn't be reading up on skills at the time. If they don't use it, they should lose it.

While they're at it, characters should be deleted when you log off. I don't hav much time to play, and it kills me that other people get to progress so much further because they can save their characters.

While they at it, after you beat the end boss, it should have a 50/50 chance of deleting your character instead of continuing. I love that forced arbitrary replayability, it's the ONLY way to play
 
If you want to respec, get the damn mod and STOP CRYING.

If you don't want to respec, do not get the damn mod and STOP CRYING.



For fuck sake people, there is NOTHING TO SEE HERE. Lets all agree to move on.
 
I just found out that the player can have multiple same-type summoning scrolls active as long as they aren't the same rank. Skeleton army time!
 
dj_2004 said:
I just found out that the player can have multiple same-type summoning scrolls active as long as they aren't the same rank. Skeleton army time!
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I have only played the engineer. Please elaborate because skeletons were my bread and butter in TL1. Probably a little OP from what I remember since the ones I used caused damage and leeched health to me.
 
Kenworth said:
I have only played the engineer. Please elaborate because skeletons were my bread and butter in TL1. Probably a little OP from what I remember since the ones I used caused damage and leeched health to me.
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For example: The player can have a rank 5 and rank 4 skeleton warrior summoning scroll active and each of these two spells will have their own cool downs and durations. So, I think the player can produce a maximum of 4 skeleton warriors per cast (when all four scroll slots are filled), and each spell has a cool down of 8 seconds, thus allowing the player to produce 4 warriors every 8 seconds. I think this was the same concept in TL1.

There are only skeleton warriors and archers from what I've seen, both without life leeching. Archers are good for bosses but the warriors are more rounded overall so I use them. Zombies are too slow.
 
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Kenworth said:
I have only played the engineer. Please elaborate because skeletons were my bread and butter in TL1. Probably a little OP from what I remember since the ones I used caused damage and leeched health to me.
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I'm not sure if there are any that return health, but right now on my Embermage I can pull out 4 skeletons and 4 zombies from scroll spells (I used to have a third spell for a single, pretty badass skeleton warrior) - 4 meleeing exploding zombies and 4 skeleton archers
 
I'm playing an Embermage with a buddy playing an Engineer, so he's got a ton of health and survivability and all that. We're currently level 30 (or 31, can't remember), and I'm having the hardest time on earth staying alive. I die once a pull for fuck's sake. I've got points in the ice talents, like elemental boon, and that frost teleport shit, but I just can't seem to stay alive unless I pop a pot or two every pull. Sometimes going through 10 pots if it's a serious pull. FYI we're playing on Veteran difficulty. I play very defensively and can lay down some serious damage if I get the chance, but yet I'm getting massacred by enemies chasing me and beating me to pieces.

...Is this normal? I'm planning on taking a few spells from the fire + storm trees a few levels down the road as well, mostly tier 2/3 ones.
 
I played an embermage to about 36ish and it just wasn't for me honestly. I ran out of potions and cash, so basically the toon got stuck. I changed to an engi and am level 80 on that toon. I hardly use pots at all with the heal bot following me around. I play on veteran also, but yeah, the embermage wasn't my style.
 
ob1 said:
I played an embermage to about 36ish and it just wasn't for me honestly. I ran out of potions and cash, so basically the toon got stuck. I changed to an engi and am level 80 on that toon. I hardly use pots at all with the heal bot following me around. I play on veteran also, but yeah, the embermage wasn't my style.
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I guess I was expecting the Embermage to play a lot like the Wizard from D3, and it just isn't like that at all. It's kind of bland and boring tbh heh. I may try something else.
 
BiH115 said:
I'm playing an Embermage with a buddy playing an Engineer, so he's got a ton of health and survivability and all that. We're currently level 30 (or 31, can't remember), and I'm having the hardest time on earth staying alive. I die once a pull for fuck's sake. I've got points in the ice talents, like elemental boon, and that frost teleport shit, but I just can't seem to stay alive unless I pop a pot or two every pull. Sometimes going through 10 pots if it's a serious pull. FYI we're playing on Veteran difficulty. I play very defensively and can lay down some serious damage if I get the chance, but yet I'm getting massacred by enemies chasing me and beating me to pieces.

...Is this normal? I'm planning on taking a few spells from the fire + storm trees a few levels down the road as well, mostly tier 2/3 ones.
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I'm having a similar experience with the Berserker on verteran. Maybe I'm just not that good at the game, maybe I've built up my character stupidly, or maybe veteran is just really hard. Still, I'm plowing through and having fun.
 
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