Top Spin is no fun for me

R

RagManX

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 5, 2001
Messages
1,217
XBox, for those that don't know.

Can anyone tell me how to find this game fun?

I tried playing it last night, after reading all these great reviews about how it was the finest implementation of pong ever. Well, I put in over an hour of play time, and never had fun. There was a server coach who would take my money, and then award me skill points in serving, if I could serve and hit the targets. However, I can find no information on how aiming works to make my shots hit the targets, so I just kept taking craps and wiping my ass with the money. I know it has something to do with the left analog stick, but no details on how moving that stick actually affects play are available that I can find.

The tennis school available from the main menu is just a step shy of worthless. The manual doesn't provide enough information on how to play this particular implementation of tennis. There is no practice court, as far as I can tell, to let me practice hitting various serves or returns to see how they work and to try getting a feel for the game. It's just "Start playing, and scream in agony because you are TEH STUPID!!1! for not being able to play already."

After my hour or so, I put the stupid game away, cursed myself for wasting money on it, and went back to playing Links, which is fun, and instructs the beginner on how to play.

RagManX
 
"After my hour or so, I put the stupid game away"

Don't blame the game for you not being able to play it...

Ah, Top Spin, a game that finally took Virtua Tennis out of my mind, I think I understand the problem you are having, it's called "dedication" and "learning" you cannot pick up a game and be the master of it in 30 minutes, Give it some time, and you will learn to play it, the backspin sceme is brilliant, and you aim with Analog...what's so difficult? You must PRACTICE, there is nothing I can tell you to do unless you PRACTICE, if you just gave up on the game, curse yourself for being a quiter, not for purchasing a great game...
 
its like sorta real tennis in that it does need practice. takes some skill to get used to the controls quickly, though. i picked it up pretty well in two hours. easily one of the best looking games on the xbox, and the least crash prone, too:)
 
A game with no information on how the controls actually affect gameplay is great? True, I can probably learn to play it with more time, and probably will, once I get over my anger at the idiocy of the learning curve. But still, why can't there be a practice court to learn serving? Why isn't there a court you can practice returning shots from a machine? You know, stuff you can actually do in tennis.

I'll ask my questions more plainly, and perhaps someone will actually offer some information instead of telling me the the game is great and not helping me. How does moving the analog stick affect aiming? If I move it about 10 percent to the left, what kind of difference will that make in my serve? If I move it 50% left, how much bigger a difference will that make? What about all the way left? All the way left, and up 50%?

When I'm trying to complete the server instructor's tasks (who, by the way, offers no instruction, but merely a skill upgrade if you can figure out how to perform his task), *HOW* do I aim my serve to hit the targets. Hell, the only reason I know that the analog stick supposedly does something is because I read it somewhere - manual or tennis "schoool" - and remembered it.

I can ask more about what's wrong with trying to learn this game, but unless I can get answers that mean anything, I don't think I need bother people with more questions.

RagManX
 
Ah ok, I see, let me make it simple for you...PRACTICE!

That's the problem with Casual Gamers these days, every thinks they can just pick up a game and play, what happen to staying up til 3 in the morning trying to figure out a game, instead if people don't get it in an hour, they deem it "dumb", "unworthy", "a waste of time"....No my friend, you get what you give...

If I offended you, I apologize, well no, I don't, I ask you to actually give the game a try, the only way to learn is to practice, there is no secret way I can teach you, there is nothing difficult about it...
 
Wow, what a great fucking reply, dickweed. I'm a much better gamer than you and have been gaming much longer than you, but I do require some instruction in how a game is supposed to work. I have tried practicing, but since it costs money for me to practice with the serving "instructor" who doesn't instruct me, I can't really get much practice before I run out of money and have to start a new character. And since the "instructor" sessions are so short, and so totally devoid of instruction, I spend more time making a character than playing.

So, I'll ask again in even simpler terms, in case your incapacity to read stopped you from understanding my previous easily understood question.



If I move the analog joystick halfway to the left while attempting a serve, how does this affect my server?



Now, according to the manual, that "aims" the ball. But against what does my "aimed" serve compare? If I serve once without the analog stick and once with the stick, how much of a difference does it make? I asked, because after almost an hour of just trying to understand serving, I still can't tell what impact that analog stick is making. Sometimes I serve in the middle of the court, sometimes it is out left, sometimes out right, sometimes just down the line. This all seems to happen no matter what I do with the analog stick. I never once had a serve land in when I tried to "aim" to the right by moving the analog stick right.

There is no practice court provided in the game.

There is no information given in game or in the manual as to how aiming changes a serve or hit.

There is no way to practice without being penalized for trying to practice.

When I play Links, if I screw up a challenge, it doesn't cost me more money to try again. To me, this seems a reasonable trade-off versus just using a driving range and putting greens to practice. In Top Spin, if I fail on a challenge, I've lost money. If I fail too many times, I can't try the challenge any more. I'm given no information on how to improve my game, and no way to practice without penalty so that I can figure out on my own how to play the game.

So please, DubOSv10, don't respond unless you actually have some skill in reading comprehension, because the feedback you give me is approximately as valuable as the shit my dogs produced last night while I was walking them.

RagManX
 
well, serving... let me see.

first, depending on how hard you hit the ball, leaning the stick will give you varying degrees of spin on the ball.

if you hit it really hard, the spin won't be as apparent, since the ball is traveling so fast that it doesn't have time to "grab" a spin before it lands. if you hit the ball very softly, but apply the same amount of pressure on the left stick, it'll curve further...

i really don't know how else to explain it... it's like in a baseball game... slow drifters curve more than a 102 mph fastball, because there's more time to curve...


the hardest part of this game is learning to "stop and hit" the ball... if you're running frantically to the right (stick allll the way over) and you hit the ball like that, it's going to go way to the right. you need to get in place, stop moving, and hit the ball.

ideally, you should be able to judge where a ball is going to go before it gets there (pong skills = handy), and already be in position, ready to make the hit. also ideally would be starting your swing "ahead of time"... the longer you hold down the button, the better hit you'll get.

this game isn't easy, but then.. if it was, it would be boring. think of it like turismo vs. mario kart. turismo is a sim, you can't just barrell into turns at 120 and expect to turn on a dime, you need to learn how to compensate for the various tracks (or courts, in top spin's case), and really play it for a few days.

i played the game for three or four days before i won my first match, but then winning was all the more enjoyable since i had earned it the hard way.


as for practice, the bnest way is with a friend.... play a few rounds, but don't TRY to "WIN". just hit the ball back and forth for 10-15 minutes...
 
<general comment> I think games need to pay attention to their learning curve and how players pick up the game. Depth of a game can not be simply measured in how hard it is to understand at first nor making it overly simple can actually increase its longevity (spelling?)

Example:Mortal Kombat, the first time you saw that game you might have had little to zero info on it (I had none as my city was the test audience and it just popped one day) Although most cabinets had the move info posted right there not all moves were easy to pull off right off the bat. However it was still possible to jump right into the game and pull moves like the simple uppercut which made everybody happy.

Contrast comparison: Capcom style juxtaposition SNK. Capcom's VS series can be directly compared to the SNK King of fighters series. In the US it seems as though the average player likes these Capcom style over SNK's as capcom's style offers a rather high ability to button mashers and a wealth of ability to "flow" with your actions right from the start, any previous street fighter experience will instantly take you to a supreme advantage. Don't be fooled by that, it still takes you quite a while to "master" the finer points of those games, and once you do its easy to discern from a beginner player to one who worked at playing better. SNK however doesn't allow anything to the button masher and to the beginner and intermediate player "flow" seems almost impossible. At best the beginner can pull of a win or perhaps 3, even if you set the game level to its lowest and get mostly through the game one can find them self feeling empty as they are still as jerky moving and awkward as when they started the game.

This is however much different in their Samurai Showdown (not sure about Zero I have yet to more than look at it run) series and Last blade series, Booth of these will let you get by very will with blocking and well timed regular attacks, you will face an oppoinint that will force you to improve a few times before you finish the game. I believe this approach is why I like those two series .


So all in all I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand booth of your points with a bit of lean to the poster that if the proper tools aren't given to a new gamer, and the incentive to progress in skill... then its not really worth the time! In the same light although games should almost be parallel to time waster sometimes they can be frustrating and just give it some rest and come back to it later, another day / week perhaps
 
If you want to practice your gameplay, try setting up an exhibition match. And I believe the main factor in aiming is not how far you move the joystick, but rather, how long you hold it in the direction you want to aim. It takes a while to get the "feel" for how long you need to hold it. If you hold it too long, it will go out of bounds. You can try reading the guides at http://www.gamefaqs.com for more info on setting up your character / general gameplay tips.

Lastly, RagMan, if you were less caustic in your replies, perhaps people might be more inclined to help you.
 
Originally posted by RagManX
Wow, what a great fucking reply, dickweed. I'm a much better gamer than you and have been gaming much longer than you, but I do require some instruction in how a game is supposed to work.

So please, DubOSv10, don't respond unless you actually have some skill in reading comprehension, because the feedback you give me is approximately as valuable as the shit my dogs produced last night while I was walking them.

RagManX
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LOL, here we go with the "My dick is bigger than yours" crap...

LOL, I could go on to list credentials, articles, events, games owned, systems owned, etc etc...But I'd rather not, knowing my dick is bigger is good enough for me :D...

Hey bro, I was just telling you to practice, you yourself said you only tried for an hour, I simply told you that THAT was your problem. It's not lack of instructions, gameplay, etc...it's your dedication.

Since you're a better gamer than me, you should be able to figure it out, funny, I had no problem with it, of course I'm a Virtua Tennis fanatic, still, it's not that hard...LOL...

LOL...my feedback may not be well liked by you, but it's true none the less, lol, stop being a tool and learn to play the game...What you are is a fine example of the ol "This game sucks because it's hard" type person...you are the decline of the industry, I'd rather you not learn Top Spinm just return it and save us the trouble...
 
Quite the contrary, I typically prefer hard games. But I expect all games to have a way to learn how to play without being penalized for trying to learn. In Descent, getting used to the full range of movement was tough, but the early levels gave you plenty of energy and shield powerups so you weren't in too bad of shape as you progressed. Later on, the levels started getting harder, but by then you should have learned how to control your ship well enough to deal with how to survive.

In Tribes (one of the few games I'm really good at), it is hellaciously hard to play well - just ask any noob. But learning the basics of play is easy. There is a set of training levels that cover enough to help you learn to play, and plenty of maps to play around on single player. Sure, they won't help you much with real online play, but they give enough to get you started.

Geez, even Pitfall was hard to the point of being silly (I've never finished it, have you?), but it was stupid simple to pick up and start playing. And if you really wanted to get good enough to finish it, you could, and the ramp up didn't seem so horrible.

Mechwarrior 2 (and 4, I suppose), Mech Assualt, Thief, Sim City, and so on. All games I've enjoyed, and all that were hard to play (or play well). But every single one of them taught you enough that you didn't feel like you were playing poorly because you had absolutely no idea how the controls worked. If I played any of them poorly, it was because I wasn't patient enough, or didn't understand a mission well enough, or because of something I did wrong. With Top Spin, I don't do well, because I have absolutely no information on how I can control what the ball does, and absolutely no way to practice so I can learn on my own. Hell, even WarioWare Mega Minigames (or whatever it is called) has better instructions on how to play, and each game has only one word of guidance before each game.

Top Spin throws you in to the game with no useful information, except that you should start your return swing about the time the ball crosses the net. Once I get a ball in play for a couple of volleys, I can do OK, but I have the worst time getting the serve and my first return, because I just can't figure out what the ball is going to do off the serve. In real tennis, I learned to serve by being able to feel what I did and see what the ball did. In Top Spin, I simply can't see or feel a relationship between what I do with the analog stick and what the ball does in play. Some explanation somewhere would go a long way towards alleviating the frustration I'm feeling.

I will again ponder why the game can't provide a practice court for learning how to serve and volley. And specifically, why can't I practice without penalty. I don't mind that Top Spin is hard. I don't mind that I can't win a match. I don't mind that I'm not a good server. I do mind that when I find myself deficient in these areas, I have absolutely no way to improve them without being penalized for trying to improve. Why do I have to pay a trainer $1000 to perform a task, yet have no way to get an empty court to practice said task without paying (I don't want the stat, I want the knowledge of how to do it)? Why isn't there a way to play, just like in real life, where I have a machine shooting balls across the net periodically so I can practice returns? Let me just hit a ball against a wall all day, if I want, but give me the option to practice without penalty.

I don't care if a game is impossible to complete, but I care very much if it doesn't have enough information for me to understand what I am doing from the start.

And for those that actually gave real tips, thank you. When I return home this week-end, I'll try them out.

RagManX
 
I'll have to say, you have a point RagManX, no matter what certain noob thread crappers say :)

It bugs the hell out of me, too, when you have a game and they just throw you right into the mix of it, especially in a sports game where everything is a tournament. It works on hack-n-slash's, but that's about it. Practice does nothing for the frustration at having to restart over and over.
 
That's the problem with Casual Gamers these days, every thinks they can just pick up a game and play, what happen to staying up til 3 in the morning trying to figure out a game, instead if people don't get it in an hour, they deem it "dumb", "unworthy", "a waste of time"....No my friend, you get what you give...
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Sure the point above may be valid back in 1988 but..

To a lot of people staying up until 3:00am just to figure out how to play a game isn't FUN.

And contrary to popular belief, FUN FACTOR will be what makes games memorable, not how insanely hard or insanely stupid so and so is.

And also having to sit around and explaining to your friend for hours on end how to play a game just so they can be competitive just isn't FUN.

Also simply destroying your opponent because they have no idea how to play isn't FUN either.

What a lot of you hardcore gamers tend to miss is gaming in general is not a "hardcore" exclusive sort of hobby in this day and age, and ideally a good game should be easy to pick up with significant depth to provide enough challenge in the long run.

Top Spin just does not click with the first poster, and I agree with him. Part of the big appeal of Virtua Tennis was that it wasn't hard at all to pick up and be competitive.
 
"What a lot of you hardcore gamers tend to miss is gaming in general is not a "hardcore" exclusive sort of hobby in this day and age, and ideally a good game should be easy to pick up with significant depth to provide enough challenge in the long run."

Oh, I have no problem with that, I KNOW I'm a FANATIC...I know it without a doubt, I admitted that I believe earlier...But grow some balls, and stop whining about how you spend an hour with a game and cannot pick it up, I'll tell you why you can't, You're a jackass, simple, things aren't as hard as people try and make them...

LOL, you are trying to cop people out, people don't want to put dedication to anything is basically what you are saying, if you wanna be lazy, DON'T COMPLAIN, it's that SIMPLE...

That's why I said, It's nobodies fault but his own, he's making the game hard, coming from a person who owns the game, I know it's not as difficult as he makes it, maybe he's upset about a Girlfriend or something, but he posted with high anger against the game..."I'll take it back, curse myself for buying it, it's this, it's that"...

Ideally a good game should be easy to pick up you say...No, no it shouldn't, since when should you be able to get something without putting in effort? Please, do not speak of things you are in-experienced with, this kind of attitude is what leads to the decay of gaming, LOL, this is why Madden will always get more players than ESPN Football, the difficulty level, ESPN is more rewarding but requires more work, as a matter of fact, it's the same with a lot of companies...

Take Sega, they contiously make innovative games, but where are they even as a software developer, most folks have never played Panzeer Dragoon Games, Virtua Games, etc etc, why? Because they are too "hard", no, it's not that, people are cowards and give up to easily (as is proven with this guy)...

You give up after an hour, what do you expect?

You can say what you want about me, but I'm not the one complaining about a great game and whining for help...Then when I get put in my place, go on some rant about ow there "no Documentation"...

"I'll have to say, you have a point RagManX, no matter what certain noob thread crappers say"

Exactly Rurik, that's ALL you have to say...LOL, uh oh, I'm a newb, lol, don't like a newb putting you in your place (and rightfully so), tell me, what does my post count, have to do with him giving up and me telling him about it?

Oh Rurik, you are such a gaming newb, you might have a lot of HardOCP posts (which means nothing), but dude, you area total newb when it comes to gaming...There ya go, hope you understand that level of maturity :D...
 
My point is this :

I don't enjoy having to sit there and explain to friends how to play a glorified 3d game of PONG for an hour just so I could have somesort of challenge.

What Top Spin lacks is what the original poster picked up on Immediately : it lacks the "fun" factor that Virtua Tennis had.

IMHO Top Spin's camera system is horribly flawed. They had the perfect camera back when we played the E3 build but yet they somehow managed to butcher it with somesort of whacked out system they have now.

And your example of SEGA games is exactly why SEGA is now a 3rd party developer pitifully behind EA at this point, since generally EA games have some degree of playability that connects more with their target audience than SEGA did.

Oh and nice flame with that Jack@ss remark.
 
Of course Sega is behind EA, EA is ahead of EVERYONE, including Nintendo, do they make better games...NO, You know, Brtiney Spears sold more records than Steely Dan last year, is Britney Spears a better musician than Steely Dan? Nope...

If folks would learn to play a game and stop becoming tools, we'd have a different industry, Top spin is an excellent recreation of Tennis, maybe you'd have to watch the sport to understand a bit more (I dunno how else to put it)...

You mean to tell me it lacks the pick up and play of Virtua Tennis, the fun facter of pickup and play is not there?

Wait wait, that means you actually have to show dedication and use your *dun dun dunnnn* BRAIN!?! Oh my goodness, well what kind of world are we living in where you have to use your MIND to THINK...I mean it is just proposterous that you can't just pick the controller up and know every aspect of the game, I can't believe the level of dedication it takes to LEARN something...Wow, I'm so pissed...

LOL, BTW, on Sega, they have some of the finest and most innovative games EVER created, EA has a bunch of rehashed franchises set to the newest "hip-hop" and "rock" music...You really stated your point huh fella :rolleyes:...

Hell, I don't even know why I dignified your argument, anyone who thinks EA is supreme to Sega has some problems...That'll be all...
 
Holy damn! How many times are you all going to measures each others dicks? Get over yourselves and stop taking every word so personally.:rolleyes:



First of all, Top Spin IS worth your time. Its just that good. Simple.



The serving(and all hitting for that matter) movement is dependant on a couple of factors; One: the amount of 'pre-swing' you apply. When you are serving or volleying, if you want a good cut, spin, cross court action, you MUST press and HOLD the shot button of your choice AND the direction that you want it to go, BEFORE you hit the ball. The more you hold it, the greater the effect. Just try it, and it will be clear. TWO: the other way is preforming a special shot when your ITZ meter is full(easier anyway when its full). You fill it up by making winning shots or just good shots, and to a lesser extent taunting.

It really is that simple. Deal with it.
 
Originally posted by DubOSv10
Exactly Rurik, that's ALL you have to say...LOL, uh oh, I'm a newb, lol, don't like a newb putting you in your place (and rightfully so), tell me, what does my post count, have to do with him giving up and me telling him about it?

Oh Rurik, you are such a gaming newb, you might have a lot of HardOCP posts (which means nothing), but dude, you area total newb when it comes to gaming...There ya go, hope you understand that level of maturity :D...
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It's nothing about post counts. It's people that are new to an area jumping up to make subtle attacks against others who've been around for awhile. It means that maybe you're not aware of the [H] customs around here. That you should try to help someone instead of just saying "You're doing trying hard enough", and put down his choice of other games. The guy's just ticked about a certain function and setup of the game.


Let's not even get into how long you've been in gaming, or how good you are. You'll find that there is always someone who's been in longer, and done more, and better, and sometimes that person is here on this board :)
 
One thing I WON'T find on this board, is someone as dedicated the industry of games...LOL, nm...I respect folks opinions on Networking, Hardware, SMP, Intel, AMD, those forums, but this is a general PC forum, people understand that a bit more, and are quick to attack other things, he was quick to attack Top Spin, instead of blaming himself for not trying...

Really the fact that you guys have to come to his defense proves my point all the more, the man is capable of defending himself...It's just the same as I wouldn't expect anyone to know the in's and outs of North Carolina sports since 1980, I don't have a problem with the level of knowledge, but I have a problem with the level of knowledge that folks pretend to have...

LOL, hopefully instead of being offended, he will pick the game up and play it again...What is he hurt? It's an internet message board, please, save it...
 
Well, I've put in a couple more hours play time. I *STILL* don't get how serving works, but I've stopped trying to do anything special with the serve and just concentrate on playing the volleys well. The game is more enjoyable now that I've quit trying to serve well, but I can't understand why serving wasn't made more understandable.

This elistism about a game should be hard to play to be good is utter crap, and even if I believed a game should be hard, that doesn't explain why any company would intentionally make a game hard to understand. After putting Top Spin aside for a while, I decided to open my copy of Beyond Good and Evil and try it out. Without ever opening the manual, I was able to play and enjoy the game immediately. How to play is made very clear from the first chance you have to control the main character. I don't know if the game will turn out to be hard enough to satisfy some in this forum, but the fact that I can just pick it up and play it to me seems the way all games should be.

I really don't mind a game being hard, but why in the world should it be hard to figure out how to play?

RagManX
 
LOL, of course, it shouldn't be hard to GET into the NBA, it should be hard to STAY in the NBA...not Both??? LOL...Damn work ethic and understanding in this world, it's so annoying, we should just be able to pick up everything and play it without having to use our minds...

Practice...meh, what's practice, screw practice, everything should just be fed to me like I'm a little tool who can't think for his-self...

That's a way buddy...
 
Originally posted by DubOSv10
...Damn work ethic and understanding in this world, it's so annoying, we should just be able to pick up everything and play it without having to use our minds...

Practice...meh, what's practice, screw practice, everything should just be fed to me like I'm a little tool who can't think for his-self...
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HA! Finally someone who can see this other than me! If you want a perfect example of this, visist MINNESOTA! All everyone does at work is complain if they want to up your production level, they will gladly put in overtime, but not work during regular hours OR during overtime. Doesn't matter what kind of job you have. I see it everywhere in MN. "Minnesota Nice" my arse.

Minnesota= all they do is drink. 1.4million DUIs in 2001(at last count there are only 5 million people in Minnesota):eek: I cannot count how many times I have been driving up and down 494 just to look over and see someone holding a beer.

I am going back west, it seems that the further east I get, the further down the evolutionary ladder the people get.

Sorry for the thread jack......but it you want to serve you have to hit it like you do the volleys....got to 'pre-load' the shot.
 
ive only put about an hour into this game and i love it. like the previous person in this thread, its taken virtua tennis out of my mind as a great tennis game. im not a huge tennis fan, but i love sports games (everything except soccer really) and this is a great game, regardless of what you "understand" about the game and whatnot. if you dont get it, you dont get it. i get it, and i like it... alot :)
 
DubOSv10, you really are too retarded to comprehend what I'm saying, aren't you? I tried being nice in my replies and I tried making it clear, but apparently not clear enough, so I'll try to dumb it down for you. I don't think it should be easy to be a serving ace. I don't believe it should be easy to win a game, set, or match. I don't believe it should be easy to be an expert at anything related to the game, either in the virtual world or in real life.

I do, however, believe it should be easy to understand the mechanics of the gameplay implementation of the real world equivalent. In other words, it may take hours and hours of practice to become a good server, with consistent enough ball control to have the opponent scrambling for each serve. But it should not take more than a few minutes to understand how the developers implemented service control/aiming so that I know what to practice and focus on improving.

Even though I'm not very good at the game yet, I already understand how the different kinds of shots react in-game. I understand how to use aiming during the volley to try making the shot difficult for my opponent to return. I understand timing my swings for the various shots, even though I'm not very good or consistent with them. Those were easy to figure out, and the developers did a good job making the basic learning of these tasks easy. I also understand the need to anticipate the ball trajectory (that's the path, to use a smaller word) and position myself so I can return the ball effectively. But understanding all that still leaves a huge portion of the game foggy for me, as I still don't get how service aiming is supposed to work. There is no documentation to explain what "aiming" means in game for a serve, not any way I've yet found to just practice serving and aiming until I can understand.

When I learned to play Tennis in the real world, I immediately had feedback on what my stance, posture, grip, toss, and rhythm did to my serve. If I didn't hold the racket firmly, my shot would be erratic, so I would focus more on improving my grip. If I moved my feet to a certain position before serving, I could change the service angle, forcing my opponent to react to something other than a straight on serve. If I changed the speed of my swing, I could affect the flight of the ball in a way I could understand. And I could take a bucket of tennisballs on to a court and just practice doing all these things until I had a good feel for what they did. None of this feedback is available in Top Spin for serving.

Every single serve I tried to "aim" last night went out, even if I moved the analog stick just a tiny bit to one side or the other. Only straight on serves where I didn't try aiming landed in play. If I moved the stick a little left, and served with a full power bar, it went out just a little left of the in-bounds area. If I moved the stick a little left and served with a very low power bar, the ball also went out just a little left of the in-bounds area. No difference that I could percieve. If I could get some feedback on what aiming did, so I would know what to practice, I would be fine with your "Practice" dictum. But there is no feedback (OK, well, there is feedback - if I try to aim, the ball will go out in the direction that I aimed). I won the set, but only by serving without use of the analog stick and outplaying my opponent during the volley.

So, now that I've explained to you in excruciating detail what my complaint is, and now that you might be able to understand what I'm saying, since I've dumbed it down, could you explain service aiming to me in a similarly dumbed down manner? Assume I've never gamed before, but I hope to some day be one of the better Top Spin players around. I'm prepared to practice for many hours, because I enjoy the volley portion of the game. But I want to some day be able to serve an ace. How do I make a change to my serve, in effect "aiming" the serve somehow other than a straight on serve. How do I make my controls have an impact on the game world which will not automatically result in a service out of bounds? Make the explanation so simple that a total gaming novice could understand it, please.

By the way, I already know you won't (and probably can't) answer my question, but I'm open to someone else providing the information I request. You also probably didn't bother reading my full reply, because you just want to tell me to practice, even though you can't explain to me what the basics of serving are so I can practice.

RagManX
 
Originally posted by Tiny
Sorry for the thread jack......but it you want to serve you have to hit it like you do the volleys....got to 'pre-load' the shot.
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Hehehehe. Thread-jacking is cool when the thread gets this long and ridiculous (my contributions are included in that). Sorry to hear about the MN drinking thing. At least I'll know the watch out if I ever travel that way. Just for future reference, in Tennessee the drivers are bad due to stupidity, not alcohol. We're often sober (speaking from experience, no idea on what actual statistics are) just too stupid to drive well...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback on the serving question, but I still can't seem to get it to work. As pointed out in my long-winded reply above, every serve where I tried using the analog stick went out in the direction I tried to aim. Is it a timing thing, or a degree of analog stick movement? In the manual, the only instructions for aiming say you have to move the controller during the serve animation. To me, it seems that once I hit my A button to start the serve, I should be able to move the analog stick to indicate how I want to adjust the serve. I assumed the analog stick would impact the serve depending on the degree of movement (after all, that's the purpose of it being analog instead of digital). But I could tell no difference in service change for any degree of stick movement. Should I wait later in the service animation to try aiming? That's all I can think, but I haven't had enough practice time to really test this consideration, and since there is no practice court option available, I worked on playing out the volleys better last night with plans to come back to serving once (if?) I get any additional guidance here.

RagManX
 
I don't care how Long whinded you get, and how you THINK you should be able to play a game, it all comes down to you not having enough drive to shut the hell up, stop whining and play the game, this may come as a surprise to you but VIDEOGAMES ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO BE EASY FOR YOU TO LEARN, this pick up and play shit has just happened over the past few years, you used to have to put in WORK to become well versed in a game AND THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE...

So stop whining, and play, or return it, that's what it comes down to, it's your fault, shut up and play, instead of clouding the MBoard with your horrific rants of how "the game doesn't do a good job of"...No no, it's YOU...
 
Originally posted by DubOSv10
I don't care how Long whinded you get, and how you THINK you should be able to play a game, it all comes down to you not having enough drive to shut the hell up, stop whining and play the game, this may come as a surprise to you but VIDEOGAMES ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO BE EASY FOR YOU TO LEARN, this pick up and play shit has just happened over the past few years, you used to have to put in WORK to become well versed in a game AND THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE...

So stop whining, and play, or return it, that's what it comes down to, it's your fault, shut up and play, instead of clouding the MBoard with your horrific rants of how "the game doesn't do a good job of"...No no, it's YOU...
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There's a diffence between a gaming being hard to master and a game being poorly documented. Either you fail to grasp what his complaint actually is or you're just a total assclown.
 
Game is not poorly documented, it tells you everything you need to know to get STARTED, the rest is up to YOU to figure out, of course...LOL, of course, people don't have an work ethic, so this type of thing should be expected I guess...

I own the game, I play it on live, I'm quite good at it, I never once complained about the *dun dun dun* learning curve...Give me a break...
 
Originally posted by RagManX


RagManX
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I agree that the manual is darn near useless. It is hard for me to explain, but it matters how long you hold both the serve button(your choice, but I prefer to use A) and the analog stick in the direction that you want your serve to go. The serve is affected more the longer you hold both. It only takes a little stick movement to make it change lines(angle of serve compared to just pressing a button). Also, I only move the stick(slightly) just before I actually make contact with the ball, I try to time all this at the apex of ball toss. It took me a long time to get used to it myself, I mastered volley way before I got good at serving.

I agree that it sucks there is not a practice court, that would have been very helpful.

Anyway, I don't think I helped much but thats all I can do. Sorry.
 
Damn useful information, Tiny. I'll try again tonight. As I've said before, I don't expect to master it instantly, but I sure wish there was some explanation of how it was implemented so I at least felt I knew what I was doing.

Thanks for the info.

RagManX
 
Originally posted by DubOSv10
Game is not poorly documented, it tells you everything you need to know to get STARTED, the rest is up to YOU to figure out, of course...LOL, of course, people don't have an work ethic, so this type of thing should be expected I guess...

I own the game, I play it on live, I'm quite good at it, I never once complained about the *dun dun dun* learning curve...Give me a break...
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I'm sure that all the tennis pros out there were only ever taught what they needed to know to get STARTED and then they had to figure everything else out on their own. :rolleyes:

There's a difference between knowledge and skill. The typical athlete who wants to become great at a sport will acquire as much knowledge as possible outside of practice and use practice to develop skill in applying that knowledge. In the real world, there's plenty of documented information for any popular sport that doesn't need to be figured out through practice. But I suppose that, to you, anyone who'd rather use such documentation rather than reinvent the wheel through practice would lack a "work ethic". :rolleyes:

So you managed to do well despite the poor documentation. Hooray for you! Go slap a gold star on your forehead and wander the world looking for someone who gives a shit instead of acting like a pissy bitch when someone makes a legitimate complaint.
 
LOL, yep and I'm sure those athletes also whine a lot when they can't figure things out, instead of continuing to practice until they get good...

No one holds your hand for anything, and if that's what you want, join a church, the best athletes did it on thier OWN, not by whinning that they can't "understand" WAAAA!!!!!

Why are you even in this? You have nothing to say about the game, do you even own it...Let your friend defend himself...
 
I'll re-quote my post from the first page of this thread for emphasis:

Originally posted by WangButter
If you want to practice your gameplay, try setting up an exhibition match. And I believe the main factor in aiming is not how far you move the joystick, but rather, how long you hold it in the direction you want to aim. It takes a while to get the "feel" for how long you need to hold it. If you hold it too long, it will go out of bounds. You can try reading the guides at http://www.gamefaqs.com for more info on setting up your character / general gameplay tips.
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Originally posted by DubOSv10
LOL, yep and I'm sure those athletes also whine a lot when they can't figure things out, instead of continuing to practice until they get good...

No one holds your hand for anything, and if that's what you want, join a church, the best athletes did it on thier OWN, not by whinning that they can't "understand" WAAAA!!!!!

Why are you even in this? You have nothing to say about the game, do you even own it...Let your friend defend himself...
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The best athletes have people who train them so that they don't have to figure everything out on their own. Somehow I doubt you know anything about being an athlete.

Why not? It's not as if you've contributed any value to this thread, so who are you to question what I post in here?
 
Brother played D-1 Basketball, I play JuCo Football, soon to be D-1 (hopefully)...But that's not important...

I personally had a lot of people telling me what I could be, what I should od, but when it came down to it, I had to get on the field and in the gym and train my ass off, nothing comes easy, not a damn thing, I guess that's where I get my views from...Experience...I'm a bit of a different breed, as I'm 6' 8" 265, I have a lot of natural size, but talent and ability all came from training, I can only be taught the basic steps, the rest is up to me to learn, that's my point...

It's what seperates good from great, work ethic...learn some...
 
Comparing athletes to gamers? Sheesh!

I want to go on a rant here, but I won’t since it doesn’t pertain to the thread.

I do understand on what you are trying to get across though. So no hate mail.
;)
 
not really, I was just using more of an analogy, I love both, but I don't think Gaming can really compare to athletics...Training my Body, Mind and Soul is one of the hardest task I have taken, it takes a lot of drive and ethic, that's why I'm such a fan of it...
 
I'm not saying it doesn't take practice to become good, because it does, but one should never need to have to practice in order to determine basic cause and effect. Knowledge isn't a substitute for practice, but it certainly makes practice a whole hell of a lot more productive. So why not share some knowledge with him that he can use when practicing instead of just telling him to practice?

"I personally had a lot of people telling me what I could be, what I should od, but when it came down to it, I had to get on the field and in the gym and train my ass off" I'm sure there was more help from others than "here's the rules of the game, figure the rest out on your own and see you come game day". How good do you think you'd be if that was all the support you got?
 
It's a situation where him PRACTICING, is what is gonna get him the knowledge he needs, trust me, there is no special system for this game, you just have to practice...That's all I'm saying, he gave up in an hour, and that was my problem, I'm sure he means well, but to get on the boards and COMPLAIN after GIVING UP, means that it's HIS problem...

I like to help people who help themselves, and that's all I was saying...

"How good do you think you'd be if that was all the support you got?"

As good as I am now, lol, I helped myself to the gym, the field, etc...I laid the groundwork, I could never get to the position of being coached, if I hadn't laid the groundwork, and that's something I have to do...
 
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