Top 3 dislikes in Linux!

Well here's my experience:

I originally tried Redhat 7.2 back in the day. It was mostly just a curiosity thing, and after installing an playing around with GIMP a little, I eventually gave up on it because I was still big into games and things like OpenOffice weren't yet up to the level they are now for school use, etc.

Fast forward to college, and I decided to try out the new Fedora Core releases. I was doing alot of Computer Engineering stuff by connecting remotely to the Unix systems at school, and using linux allowed me to have the graphical tools forwarded straight to my linux box through ssh rather than using crappy windows emulators. During that time I was exlusively using Linux, and had no need to go back to windows. Here's some of the more notable things I accomplished during that 3-4 month period:

-Installed Fedora Core 1, later upgraded to Core 2.
-Learned how to modify the then-broken RedHat Network Update utility
-Succesfully installed Firefox, and scrounged around online for a script to allow new browser windows to open in tabs.
-Installed ATI drivers successfully after several days of searching manpages, google, and ATI's own pages.
-Recompiled ATI drivers from Kernel source, and followed instructions found online to make the old ATI XFree drivers compatible with a newer version of XOrg, despite no availability of native XOrg drivers at the time.
-Wrote bash scripts to keep my www.dnsalias.com dynamic hostname IP address updated.
-Wrote bash scripts to allow simple menu-driven selections for starting/stopping VNC servers to allow me to access my Linux box from school.
-Got plugins for all types of video formats to work with Firefox, as well as Java plugin.
-Got mp3/DVDs to work in linux.
-Setup a partition to allow swapping of data between windows and linux partitions.
-Setup samba filesharing with my sister's computer, as well as cups for printing to her printer over the network.

95% Of the stuff I learned was either through experimentation or by searching online and taking things from here and there and putting 2 and 2 together to solve problems. Linux doesn't teach itself, but with a little patience, you can learn alot and feel really good about it.

Unfotunately, playing Q3A and Unreal Tournament 2K3 demos got old after a while, and I eventually went back to the XP partition to get my Counter-Strike fix and never looked back.

More recently I scrapped the Fedora partition and installed SuSe 9.0 for reasons explained below, and I was able to accidentally install the ATI drivers without so much as a hint of difficulty. After enough repetition, nothing is IMPOSSIBLE to do.

Now, onto my 3 Linux annoyances:

1) This is more of a hardware issue, I guess, but I can't find a distro that doesn't crap its pants when trying to read the Silicon Image RAID controller on my Asus A7N8X Deluxe. I've seen hundreds of posts from people with the same exact board, with the same problems which make installation of any 2.6.x kernels impossible without recompiling the kernel. Not sure who to blame, Asus, Silicon Image, or the linux community. At the moment, I was able to get SuSe 9.0 running with a little effort, but I'm itching to try out the newest Fedora release. Guess i'll have to wait for a new mobo before I can do that.

2) Lack of DirectX support on all major games. I know this is mostly Microsoft's fault, but this is one of the few things that keeps me dual-booting XP with Linux. Otherwise, I can easily say I'd have no problem running Linux exclusively.

3) Bad support of newer hardware and mutli-button mice(?) (mouses? :) )

Other than that, I love the challange, and I may be among the few people who find the dependance on using the command line/terminal a welcome comfort reminding me of the old DOS 5 / Windows 3.1 days.

If you expect linux to be something you can just pick up over the weekend, you're not really asking for too much. The newer graphical distros like Mandrake and SuSe are pretty much idiot-proof. But if you're looking to do everything you do in Windows right off the bat, you're sadly mistaken. It takes a little more effort to get everything working, but ultimately you feel like you have way more control over the system than you ever would with Windows. However, for non-power users who are looking for just a little web browsing and email/chatting and maybe a few online games here and there, Linux works just fine. Something like Lindows/Linspire is made well enough for the general public to use with little effort.

I'm looking forward to a break from school this summer so I can attempt a Gentoo install from the bottom up. :rolleyes:
 
1) Lack of standardization. Whose bright idea was it to truncate ps output anyways? How many versions of df do we need? Which flags do I need to send the compiler again? What, this compiler is garbage and I need to buy a TPA? There are no drivers for this??? More of a licencing nightmare than a genuine fault with *n*x but the results are the same.

2) Elitism. Forcing constant wheel reinvention via 'RTFM, n00b' flames on newsgroups. I've waded through thousands of posts trying to research answers (instead of asking questions!!!) and found more flames than information. Highly frustrating. The experts themselves seem to be the larger wasters of space than the n00bs at times. I *HATE* wasting my time reading flame wars when I'm researching. AAAAAUGH! :mad: :rolleyes: :confused:

3) Sometimes it's simply easier to work on Windows than it is on any form of Linux or Unix. This isn't the case all the time but since this is a Linux gripe thread... :p Installing, configuring and managing software is easier to accomplish on Windows. I'm not promoting Windows, just wish some things were easier to do on Unix/Linux or a little more flexible.
 
carloswill said:
  • No Direct X for games
  • Samba (never works for me)
  • Compile anything (I just hate that word)


DirectX is a proprietary, microsoft feature set [don't want to call it an application]

If you want to play a DIRECTX game.. Boot to Windows - It'll be faster anyhow


Now.. OpenGL on the otherhand?
 
flaky hardware support
steep learning curve
lack of application and game support

i want to *use* my computer, not spend day after day trying to make it work
 
I dont understand why people constantly compare *nix to windows, it's not a replacement. It has its own purpose. As much as I love linux, it has its place. I think it would be a safe bet to say that majority of machines running *nux are for server use, not desktop. If I want to play a game of doom, i'll use my windows computer. If I feel the need to setup a temp. fileserver/webserver I would setup linux.

Samba was one of the first apps I setup and configured. This was the time where if I messed up setting the IP of my network card I would reinstall the OS. "man samba" was so easy to understand, I even remember checking out google for "setup samba".

As far as installing apps, If you have basic dependencies compiling is not a problem. If that is still too much, debians "apt" or redhats "yum" can't get any easier.

Support for *nix is better then windows IMO.
 
"3) Bad support of newer hardware and mutli-button mice(?)"

Nope, can't agree with that one. Bought myself an MX510 for my new desktop the other day, came home and plugged it into my desktop, which was previously using a crappy $8 optical Logitech with three buttons. All the additional buttons work - the cruise control scrolling works, and the buttons on the side really go forward and back through pages in Firefox. I was a bit surprised, I have to admit, but it really did happen. No configuration at all. :)

(It does need a little app called logitech_applet to set it into 800dpi mode, but that's no big deal).
 
Silent1 said:
3) apt-get install packagename; can't go wrong with debian

Package dependcies / incompatiblities != fun. Reminds me of the dll hell I no longer have to deal with.
 
1) Getting sound to work
2) Getting wireless to work
3) Getting 64bit distros to work


But its fun working on those problems.

 
Well, I have four. Roughly prioritized.
1) Software mixing for sound is off by default and it's tricky to set up.
I've read the alsa-project docs, and they're confusing for me. I maintain my own linux distro (fold-server.sf.net), I'm now a newb. I'd hate to encounter this crap as my first experience of linux.

2) ATi support sucks.
I have an ati radeon 9000 and it took me four hours to install the drivers. Compare that with windows, where you download the Cats and install. It can't be this difficult or ati will lose market share. They've already lost my market share. I'm buying nVidia next time. I know this is an ATi thing, but it's still a fairly major one.

3) Giant hole in documentation.
The documentation for Linux and all its associated utilities has this giant leap you're supposed to make from absolute noob to master of the known universe. As somebody remarked, where is the documentation on what a filesystem is like? How do I copy/move/change mode a file?

4) init scripts
For the love of god, people, standardize these. Put them in /etc/init.d, and put the full name of the service they start as the name of the rc script. Have a start() routine that starts it, a stop() that stops it etc. Explain the steps as you do them. If I have to edit them, I want to know what I'm doing. Provide a null script (think gnu hello) that does everything a script should do but with no-ops.
 
First alittle background

I never installed, used, touched, operated linux before. However I am very fluent in Windows, always have been. im MCP and MCSE certified. Win 2000 and 2003 server, you know the drill

I installed linux cuz everyone was like OMG is so much better... so ok, my curosity got to me. I grabbed what seemed to be easy. mandrake.... installed it, managed thru that, not so hard... restarred and booted into the OS what looked to be a "Dos prompt". I know its not DOS... but its a console or terminal...

so here are my TOP 3 dislikes in linux

1. What the FUCK do i do now?

2. What the FUck to I do now?

3. Repeat Steps 1 & 2 over and over and over....



Sigh
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
What the FUCK do i do now?
That's one of the things that amuses me the most about people that try Linux cause they buy in to the hype...You generally should have something you want to do with Linux before you start using it.

In my case, I started using Linux years ago cause I wanted a C compiler and didn't want to pirate one for DOS.

Find something you want to do with *nix. Do you want to run a webserver? Set up a desktop? What?
 
Somebody did not install right if it booted directly to the terminal, but the terminal something that sits on both sides of life. Konsole work can be tedious, yet at other times it is enjoyable. Packages and stuff like that is what my dislike is, so many distros out that a clear cut compatibility across all systems hasnt been intiated. Other than that linux is more or less a learning experience, and like all new experiences theres problems then there solutions to those problems. Finding the solution is always my favorite part of linux, cause i can look back and be like dam that was difficult but you know what it was worth it.
PS: If you notice any grammatical errors, its because i dont do well typing long messages sorry :)
Im waiting for my second comp so i can start a file server for my home, so as of now im now starting to learn linux. Then in like 4months or so when i get my second comp i will be ready, i will know enough to set-up a secure samba file server.
 
I just surf, chat, email, porn, watch tv, excel and word... just general computing.... Game sometimes... CS, Star Craft.. you know lite stuff.... sometimes will get into the occasional MMORPG dependining what it is.... watch DVDs and rip them etc... record TV

I dont do anything creative like build webpages, write code or compile stuff.... even tho I want to get into something like that, I just dont know where to start.. I just wanted to try linux to see if I liked it as a replacement for windows. But not knowing how to start the damn thing, sorta thru me off track.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I just surf, chat, email, porn, watch tv, excel and word... just
Did you have to include the pron, i think it would have been effective without that
 
My top 3 dislikes are:

1) Its not any easier than Windows.

2) Its not any cooler than OS X.

3) Its not any better than *BSD.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I installed linux cuz everyone was like OMG is so much better... so ok, my curosity got to me. I grabbed what seemed to be easy. mandrake.... installed it, managed thru that, not so hard... restarred and booted into the OS what looked to be a "Dos prompt". I know its not DOS... but its a console or terminal...
1) you can reinstall, and somewhere in there it'll say something like "Start X on boot". Turn this on.
2) "nano /etc/inittab" and change a line like id:3:initdefault: to id:5:initdefault: and this should fix it.

Disclaimer: I've never used Mandrake. It may be different on your system. Look at the Mandrake website for information on "runlevel 5" or "xdm".
 
AdamW said:
"3) Bad support of newer hardware and mutli-button mice(?)"

Nope, can't agree with that one. Bought myself an MX510 for my new desktop the other day, came home and plugged it into my desktop, which was previously using a crappy $8 optical Logitech with three buttons. All the additional buttons work - the cruise control scrolling works, and the buttons on the side really go forward and back through pages in Firefox. I was a bit surprised, I have to admit, but it really did happen. No configuration at all. :)

(It does need a little app called logitech_applet to set it into 800dpi mode, but that's no big deal).

EEEENteresting. Just out of curiosity what distro/kernel version are you running and/or did you have to manually edit the mouse hardware lines in XF86Conf to get the extra buttons to work?

If it's a newer distro, it might be something that's been fixed recently as I haven't been able to run any distros based on the 2.6 Kernel yet....
:(
 
1: Listening to people complain about what they dont like about it.
2: The "If i cant get this fixed i'm going back to windows" threads at linuxforum.... like we care. If you aint got the brains to figgure it out, then enjoy winders.
 
unhappy_mage said:
1) you can reinstall, and somewhere in there it'll say something like "Start X on boot". Turn this on.
2) "nano /etc/inittab" and change a line like id:3:initdefault: to id:5:initdefault: and this should fix it.

Disclaimer: I've never used Mandrake. It may be different on your system. Look at the Mandrake website for information on "runlevel 5" or "xdm".
Like he said. Just change your default runlevel, or add xdm to the one you currently boot into. If you were on a Gentoo machine "rc-update add xdm default(or boot if you like)"
 
albee: I run MDK Cooker. And yes, it probably is quite a new thing; with kernel 2.6 and x.org, there's a 'universal' mouse driver, which is supposed to basically work with any pointing device you can throw at it (and since I think 10.1, MDK uses this driver for most mice by default). AFAIK that doesn't exist on 2.4 / XFree systems, so you're going to be doing some manual configuration, I expect.
 
Oh, and BTW, if you boot straight to a console after installing MDK, one of two things is wrong:

1) there's a problem with your gfx hardware and MDK
2) (more likely) you didn't do the gfx configuration step in the installer.

2) happens quite a lot, because it's unfortunately easy to miss. If you just step through the MDK installer hitting 'next' at every opportunity, your graphics card and monitor are never configured. I don't really like this personally, but Pixel has his reasons. There's a stage where the installer presents a summary list of all your hardware and you can click on each bit to configure it if it's not yet configured, and at _that_ point you have to click on your graphics card (where, to be fair, it says 'not yet configured' in red, so it's *supposed* to be easy to see) and set it up.

Either way, the next step is the same - login as root and run 'XFdrake' to try and configure the card.
 
For whatever reason, I feel my whole problem expirance with linux is with using Mandrake. Even tho its more advanced, do you think I should try Gentoo... I heard it was very good.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
For whatever reason, I feel my whole problem expirance with linux is with using Mandrake. Even tho its more advanced, do you think I should try Gentoo... I heard it was very good.


If you are a true linux n00b, i do not recommend gentoo. sure, some will be very 'elitist' and say things like 'gentoo will force you to learn it... blah blah blah'. try the newest fedora core, or maybe go the suse/novell route. A non-install (live cd) linux may even be a better route depending what you want to do. try knoppix or gnoppix if you want to try linux w/o installing it. seriously... if you're trying linux just to see what it can do for you as a desktop, dont' go the gentoo (or any other non-n00b distro) route, as you can become overwhelmed quickly and revert back to windows even quicker. Once you know a little more about linux and you think that it is for you, then i recommend delving more deeply into the harder distros such as gentoo or arch (my personal favorite).

On a side note, I'm in the preparation stages of switching completely over to linux completely (with the exception of a few games here and there). I will be using Arch Linux and hope to stay with it (the only reason i'm not currently using it exclusively is because of wireless problems i had where i used to live).

and to stay on topic.... (even tho i think i posted these already...)

1) hardware support - mostly manufacturer's fault for not providing (or possibly even attempting) drivers for their hardware. I have yet to install (and i haven't used mandrake or fedora in a loooooong time) a distro and have everything work 'out-of-the-box'.

2) Learning curve - I dont have a problem learning and getting my hands dirty. However, i wish i would have started with linux before i knew anything about windows. i feel that i would have learned a lot more in a shorter period than having known windows and then tried to convert.

3) Inconsistency (lack of standarization) across distros - This is more of a 'where the distro stores specific information or what they name certain files' complaint. all distros should follow a standard on how services are started (init.d for some, rc.conf [arch] for others, and possibly other methods used by other distros). that is just one example, but there are others.
 
berky said:
2) Learning curve - I dont have a problem learning and getting my hands dirty. However, i wish i would have started with linux before i knew anything about windows. i feel that i would have learned a lot more in a shorter period than having known windows and then tried to convert.

I second that. Linux when I was 15 and had loads of free time & patience would have been a godsend. My C-64 was a poor second best. :p
 
knightmare said:
Mandrake sucks. You would do better using anything but that....
Hey you shut that mouth buddy, mdk is the best distro to start on and to use. I am on mdk 10 and i couldnt be happier, so you need to just be quiet cause noone cares what you say.
Gain better experience and your opinion might be worth something
Also to stay on topic i cant say i have a dislike, cause mandrake covers up most of the dislikes i have except for program standards cause i cant get java to work. Other than taht urpmi helps relieve any problems i have, so use mdk buddy and you'll see why you are so uberly wrong.
 
Saying that it's the best place to start is either artistic freedom, or optimistic/stupid/uninformed. There are a few others that are as easy to get started with, and there are some people who'll be better of with something a bit more hands-on (plus some good information). It's not bad, by any means, but ... no.
 
eggrock said:
I second that. Linux when I was 15 and had loads of free time & patience would have been a godsend. My C-64 was a poor second best. :p

I still have my Commodore 64. :cool:

Compared to the Tandy computer I had before it, the Commodore was a godsend.
 
AdamW said:
albee: I run MDK Cooker. And yes, it probably is quite a new thing; with kernel 2.6 and x.org, there's a 'universal' mouse driver, which is supposed to basically work with any pointing device you can throw at it (and since I think 10.1, MDK uses this driver for most mice by default). AFAIK that doesn't exist on 2.4 / XFree systems, so you're going to be doing some manual configuration, I expect.

Looks like I might have new project when school's over. I think I've heard of that distro, but it's been a long time since I looked into. Thanks for the info. Looks like it's bleeding-edge, really similar to the Fedora releases.
 
"Mandrake sucks. You would do better using anything but that...."

Please don't troll.
 
albeec13: It's actually analogous to Fedora's Rawhide, or Debian sid - it's the MDK development distro. I wouldn't go switching to it just to support your mouse, to be honest, better just get a newer version of whatever you use now :). I run it because I like to help testing stuff and it's neat to have the newest version of everything, but it's frankly not what I'd recommend to anyone unless you're the same way or you're willing to spend a couple hours each day updating your system and reading mailing lists to avoid the inevitable bugs which come with running a development system. If you have the right mindset it's actually a great experience, though, and (to steal the Gentoo bunnies' line) you'll certainly learn a lot.
 
1) Can't play all the games I like. Though this is not Linux's fault in reality since 99% of them are coded just for Windows using DX.
2) Lack of standards that are seen in other UN*X variants.
3) ...

I really can't complain about anything in Linux. I've been using various UN*X variants for over 7 years now and every year it gets better and better. The only reason I still have Windows is to play games :(
 
AdamW said:
I wouldn't go switching to it just to support your mouse, to be honest, better just get a newer version of whatever you use now :).

I don't love my mouse THAT much, lol. I do like running bleeding-edge software, especially on linux, because it's a good learning experience. I don't mind the work at all.
 
top three
1.standard installer, well this one would be hard to implement now but i would really like to see everything use a standard way of installing things, through debs or rpms just make sure that the same package works on all systems ;).

2.games!!!

3. cant really think of three but if i had to choose it would be... games, games, and more games!!!
 
sc3252 said:
top three
1.standard installer, well this one would be hard to implement now but i would really like to see everything use a standard way of installing things, through debs or rpms just make sure that the same package works on all systems ;).

2.games!!!

3. cant really think of three but if i had to choose it would be... games, games, and more games!!!
The games dislike went away for me, cause as soon as cedega was going i was happy other than that i agree with you that i too dislike the lack of standard install
 
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