Tom's Hardware confirms it still has no credibility

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Meeho

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- several MSI X570 motherboard models test poorly in operating temperatures, by Hardware Unboxed and multiple other reviewers
- MSI confirms the issue and goes on to fix it in new models
- Tom's Hardware tests one of the bad models, with a basic CPU and undesclosed details of the testing methodology
- Tom's Hardware concludes that their test of oranges proves that other reviewers that tested apples are all wrong, just rumors and not to be trusted, the author calls Hardware Unboxed liars and trolls



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Wasn't there some drama between [H] and Tom's at one point? Thought there was a story about Ol' Bennett throwing Tom into a garbage bin or something at a trade show in Vegas.
 
I am far from an expert, but I have watched hours of Buildzoid VRM videos and AM4 motherboard testing so I would like to think I have somewhat of a clue now. I was not surprised by the high VRM temps with MSI boards at all. Common sense and logic would let anyone know that those results seem correct. I'll see if I can explain what I saw in the MSI X570 boards vs others.

First, many MSI B450 and some X470 boards had 4 x 2 VRM phases with doubled components, so 8 highside and 8 low side mosfets for the vcore side of things.
Gigabyte had the X470 Gaming Ultra that had a very similar VRM configuration, and it was a low end X470 for Gigabyte.

Now lets move to X570.
The MSI X570 boards in question have a new controller but the same mosfets. Same part number, same quantity. The new controller allows for 8 phases, but this time since it's the same mosfets then of course it's not doubled components. Anyway, the main point is that they did not increase quantity of mosfets or change them to better quality at all.
Gigabyte's lowest X570 is the X570 Gaming X. They upped their game. Instead of 8 high side mosfets and 8 low again, now it's a 5 + 2 configuration, and each vcore phase has doublers. So overall it has 10 vcore phases. Each phase has 1 high side and 2 low side mosfets. In total that is 10 high side and 20 low side mosfets. (Buildzoid did a video on this board. Also note that there are 10 low side mosfets on the back of the board. If you look at just the front you won't see them all.)

So to summarize, MSI went cheap and used the same mosfets and the same quantity (8 high side, 8 low side), on their low end boards.
Gigabyte went from the 8 and 8 to 10 and 20. That is 30 total mosfets vs 16 on the MSI boards for vcore.

The Gigabyte X570 Gaming X runs hot in most reviews I saw and will hit over 90C overclocking a 3900X. Is it really too hard to understand that MSI will run hotter? How is that a surprise? Again, common sense and logic say the MSI temps will be much higher.
 
Ugh. I've had issues with Tom's going all the way back to when I was doing reviews in the early 2000s. Good to see they haven't changed.

That they're still around when other sites from that era have closed up shop, it makes me a little sad.
 
I saw that Hardware Unboxed pop up in my recommended list, and wondered what the whole "calls us trolls" part was all about, however I didn't wonder hard enough for me to justify watching a 30 minute video on mothersboards that I'm not immediately in the market for.
 
Tom's Hardware "Just Buy It" lost any credibility it once had when the original owner sold out to The Verge. I used to hang out there back in the 1990/00's and it's sad to see what it's become. Now it's just paid advertising and click-bait.
Hardware Unboxed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anatech>Tom's (same owners :()
 
It seems the editor is now finally admitting he screwed up and claims he'll retest:

In regards to the edited forum post of mine: This was done to stay in line with community standards. I understand we're all incredibly passionate about hardware and testing, and in retrospect, I get that your feedback was meant with best intent. My sincerest apologies for a temporary lapse in mutual respect for hardware analysis, and I'm hoping we can keep having a lively chat here to discuss the findings.

Thank you, by the way, for the excellent feedback on testing methodology. I've spoken to a few fellow authors and some of the editorial people here at Tom's, and we're already making necessary adjustments based upon your recommendations. We love it that our audience is as committed and passionate about hardware as we are, and we'd not be who we are or come as far as we have if we didn't listen to interesting ideas and constructive feedback when we get it from you.

Passion is the natural byproduct of caring about one's work, and I'm definitely guilty of responding with a bit too much passion in here. Sorry about getting heated guys, I definitely could have handled this feedback in a more positive way. I truly do care about the work we do here at Tom's, and I want to make sure that we're giving the best advice possible. We're going to take a look at these results again as we tear apart our VRM analysis methodology to see how much the results change with additional sensors and heavier hardware loads. Stay tuned.
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SeymourGore said:
Wasn't there some drama between [H] and Tom's at one point? Thought there was a story about Ol' Bennett throwing Tom into a garbage bin or something at a trade show in Vegas.
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I witnessed a very loud confrontation between Kyle and a fat slob from Tom's at the Athlon64/Opteron launch at MillionManLAN2 in Louisville,KY. It was quite entertaining.
 
If you are going to call out everybody else claiming you are right and they are wrong you better dam well make sure you are right before doing it. Tom's sold out long ago...
 
SeymourGore said:
Wasn't there some drama between [H] and Tom's at one point? Thought there was a story about Ol' Bennett throwing Tom into a garbage bin or something at a trade show in Vegas.
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alxlwson said:
I witnessed a very loud confrontation between Kyle and a fat slob from Tom's at the Athlon64/Opteron launch at MillionManLAN2 in Louisville,KY. It was quite entertaining.
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Those reports were heavily exaggerated. Maybe.
 
Tom's have had a very bad reputation as far back as I can remember. And I started becoming a HW enthusiast around 1998.
 
I was an avid reader of Tom's back in the early 00's, but it didn't take long for me to realize they very clearly sold out. Some things never change I guess.
 
fightingfi said:
toms_gets_paid_by_nvidia_intel.com
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If that was 100% true wouldn't they in fact be agreeing that any AMD chipset motherboard is trash ?

I think the truth is Toms just says whatever is popular and gets them eyeballs, and they throw in the odd BS statement for the same effect. Pretty much just like 99% of the youtube reviewers these days. If they find something true bonus... but most of the time they are just telling people what they want to hear, or disagreeing with what they want to hear now and then. Both tacts get you eyeballs, the key seems to be to alternate them properly. lol

If there where money to be made in being accurate there would be more people like Kyle... and I have a suspicion Kyle wasn't all that happy about what you have to do to make money in the review game these days. Just posting well done reviews with solid testing methods isn't enough. You need to be on Youtube waving your hands and spewing crap, being a top tier moron with heart or perhaps just having jesus hair or some other hook for grabbing eyeballs. Then you need to praise praise shit praise praise shit as expected of you to grab attention over all the other noise.
 
I think I'm going to drop my Subscription to Maximum PC magazine it's a good magazine but the samples they get for reviews are not always the best. They only review what is sent to them so you only get a fraction of the stuff that is really out there. Plus I feel sorry for our mail Lady.
If you want credibility ignore all everyone and do your own thing.
 
Meeho said:
"People don't buy top CPUs nor upgrade with affordable boards, but PCIe 4.0 storage is the next coming of Christ for the same people"
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You'd be surprised how much o a spec whore some people can be - I got modded into oblivion on another article comment thread when I dared tell people the truth - their $500 Xbox Series X Godbox would probably ship with a lowly DRAM-less SSD.

Cause you know, a 1TB DRAM-less SSD is not all that slow, - but HOW DARE I?


https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-blue-sn550-m2-nvme-ssd-review-best-dramless-ssd-yet
 
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