Time Warner Cable Threatens Pirates With Account Termination

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The key words here are "persistent pirate." If your stupid ass keeps pirating stuff, even after you've been repeatedly warned, you deserve everything that happens to you. Threatening to cut off your internet access seems pretty tame given the alternatives.

Time Warner Cable has added an interesting clarification to its copyright infringement notifications. In addition to warning pirates of the standard "mitigation measures" that are part of the Copyright Alert System, the ISP now adds that persistent pirates also risk losing their Internet connection, and more.
 
It took 'em what, 15 years to finally do this? Seriously? Shouldn't this be a standard clause in the service contract from day one?
 
Works for me. Haven't pirated a movie or game from the net in years, the older I get the less time I have to Hassel with that kind of crap. Just easier to be legit with steam.
 
Any long time members know these threats have been with us since torrents started. Looking at it from an extreme point of view their are a couple of hundred million bit-torrent users, not counting other torrent progs. How many TWC, I don't know, except no company wants to shoot its self in the foot by noticing a drop on their bottom line. Which is why this is mostly a threat. If these companies were so concerned about pirates they could put a stop to them right now by shutting the accounts down. That might work where, there is no competition, where there is, it ain't going to happen, again the bottom line. I think this message is more for the new generation. The old and not so old generation all ready know how to work the system.
 
burton14e7 said:
VPN subscriptions about to explode!
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New extra optional bundle for Timer Warner customers, a VPN service from a company you can trust. ;)

efa3dedb8fe1a778560e9bb7c5b0d0b819a5b32b.png
 
DukenukemX said:
New extra optional bundle for Timer Warner customers, a VPN service from a company you can trust. ;)
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What is annoying is that the TWC cable TV app....it doesn't function on your mobile device if it is connected to ANY VPN network. Even if you're tunneling home from a hotel. Heck even if you're just using a loopback VPN (like AdGuard) it ceases functioning.
 
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.

Time Warner sucks, but 100% agree with Steve - these people get what's coming to them... and should be prosecuted.
 
As cheap as games and music and software are today I have no fucking pity for anyone that gets burned pirating.
 
haste. said:
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.

Time Warner sucks, but 100% agree with Steve - these people get what's coming to them... and should be prosecuted.
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I don't condone piracy either, but you're greatly oversimplifying it. There's a large gray area here that you aren't acknowledging. That being said..."persistent pirates" per the article are less likely to be in the gray area.
 
haste. said:
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.
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Yes, I absolutely would as long as what I walked out with was a copy.

Bonus round, we all know IP equals identity 100% of the time too. So why not?

But, I suspect this will never happen. TW is including this because copyright has gotten way out of hand, and they're doing a CYA maneuver to avoid what Cox is going through.
 
They have proved repeatedly that people that pirate movies and such tend to also purchase more than people that don't. There are a lot of reasons to pirate, but being cheap is not chief among them.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
I don't condone piracy either, but you're greatly oversimplifying it. There's a large gray area here that you aren't acknowledging. That being said..."persistent pirates" per the article are less likely to be in the gray area.
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What gray area? This is a black or white. You either pirate stuff or you don't. I don't care if it is well they don't offer X in my area so I have to pirate it or I don't like DRM or any other excuse, pirating is pirating. Just like breaking into a store and stealing a tv is breaking in and stealing a tv, no matter what reason you have for doing so.
 
haste. said:
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.

Time Warner sucks, but 100% agree with Steve - these people get what's coming to them... and should be prosecuted.
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People don't want to pay money for anything and will do whatever they can to avoid that giving all the reasons they can think of.
 
If you don't stop using that cable modem for downloading bits, then we are going to kick ourselves in the throat and stop sending you a bill for payment.

Sounds reasonable.
 
I neither completely agree or disagree with this policy. Personally I think it would be fine to do but given all the false positives and extortion schemes that have happened due to to ease of filing claims with no penalties I can't agree that this is a good policy to have. This is mainly due to having a majority of people not having any but one or maybe two ISPs in their area where they can get service. The internet is no longer a "unnecessary" service it's practically a requirement these days. IMHO the only true balance to this problem is if ISPs that cut off people can be held liable for loss of service to a fine of no less than the past 12 months of service the person who was cut off paid when proven that the ISP/accuser made a mistake cutting off the service.
 
Now we can start sending cease letters to ISPs instead of swatting some asshat on call of duty.
 
Tiberian said:
It took 'em what, 15 years to finally do this? Seriously? Shouldn't this be a standard clause in the service contract from day one?
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Ugh... 15 years? This is a follow up to the CAS system that prevents the MPAA/RIAA from mass suing everyone, so instead the ISP's send out stop notices. That usually takes care of 99% of ppl, but there are special cases like the morons who don't stop until they are threatened with disconnection. I see this as tools forcing TWC's hands.

if the alleged user is still suspected of illegal downloading after completion of the "online educational tutorial on copyright" and the six strikes warnings, unless the copyright owner takes legal action; nothing will happen.[19] Time Warner Cable, stated that it would not discontinue customers' service, but instead redirect users to educational pages on copyright law upon multiple violations.[20]
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One really has to try hard to get disconnected by TWC.
 
Exavior said:
What gray area? This is a black or white. You either pirate stuff or you don't. I don't care if it is well they don't offer X in my area so I have to pirate it or I don't like DRM or any other excuse, pirating is pirating. Just like breaking into a store and stealing a tv is breaking in and stealing a tv, no matter what reason you have for doing so.
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Read what I quoted and responded to. That member was discussing the ethical side of this. On the ethical side there is gray area.

When discussing the legality of pirating, it is black and white, you either are breaking the law or you aren't.
 
haste. said:
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.

Time Warner sucks, but 100% agree with Steve - these people get what's coming to them... and should be prosecuted.
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Downloading a game I wouldn't have ever bought to begin with doesn't affect anyone's profits. You remember when PC devs released game demos? I sure do.
 
From the wording it looks as if it is a 3rd Party that is alerting TWC about the infringements. Which means they get a notice and then send you a notice.

At least it isn't TWC scanning your connection for infringement.
 
DrLobotomy said:
From the wording it looks as if it is a 3rd Party that is alerting TWC about the infringements. Which means they get a notice and then send you a notice.

At least it isn't TWC scanning your connection for infringement.
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It's the CAS system, copyright alert system. They send out six notices, cross fingers hope the offender stops. Most ppl stop. Tools do not. And thus if TWC cannot curb it they will be held liable along with the offender when the RIAA sends their dogs out. That's my guess because otherwise I don't see the reason for them to disconnect customers.
 

haste. said:
I'm still shocked that an adult would pirate, which is evident from the feedback on [H]. Would you walk into a store and steal a candybar or case of beer you haven't tried before because you just aren't sure you are going to love it? As a 14 year old sure, you haven't had time to mature and understand ethics, but it baffles me that adults are so entitled crybabies they can continually legitimize stealing of other peoples work.

Time Warner sucks, but 100% agree with Steve - these people get what's coming to them... and should be prosecuted.
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I don't pirate games and programs anymore like I did when I was a teenager. However I still pirate some television shows and movies since it's a lot more convenient for me. I believe a lot of adults are in the same boat as me, at the end of the day we don't mind paying for our media but if it's inconvenient to obtain legally we'll just pirate. I pay for Netflix, Spotify, and I still have cable. For example instead of catching The Big Bang Theory on cable at specific time I'll just download the Torrent and watch it on my own schedule.
 
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Shotglass01 said:
Yes, I absolutely would as long as what I walked out with was a copy.

Bonus round, we all know IP equals identity 100% of the time too. So why not?

But, I suspect this will never happen. TW is including this because copyright has gotten way out of hand, and they're doing a CYA maneuver to avoid what Cox is going through.
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I'd challenge you on this because I don't see compliance with the law as a CYA maneuver.
 
Streiw said:
Downloading a game I wouldn't have ever bought to begin with doesn't affect anyone's profits. You remember when PC devs released game demos? I sure do.
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I love how people like to paint the past as if it was this magical perfect place. I remember when a handful of games each year got demos. You know what else I remember? Having to BUY magazines in order to play those demos because the internet was barely a thing. I also remember having to buy those same magazines in order to get patches for games. The time between a ton of demos being easily available for everyone online and the time where demos stopped was less than ten years. Even then, it wasn't every single game like people seem to remember it being. With Steam and Origin having good refund policies these days it's not really as important to have demos. It's not hard to play the first 30-45mins of a game to find out if you'll like how it plays, looks, performs, etc and go from there. If a game isn't worth buying at any price I don't see how it's worth playing either.
 
thesmokingman said:
It's the CAS system, copyright alert system. They send out six notices, cross fingers hope the offender stops. Most ppl stop. Tools do not. And thus if TWC cannot curb it they will be held liable along with the offender when the RIAA sends their dogs out. That's my guess because otherwise I don't see the reason for them to disconnect customers.
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Not any more.

The last court ruling is going to change this. Now an ISP that identifies a pirate must check to see if the pirate has been doing it in the past, and if he has, he now qualifies as a repeat offender even if he has never been previously notified of his offenses.

In short, a guy that pirates a movie, is notified, does it several more times and is repeatedly found and notified is a repeat offender, but so is a guy who has pirated twenty movies in the past and is just now caught and notified, and in both cases the ISP has to ban their accounts.
 
I killed off cable TV, oomphed my internet speed and cap, 150/20/2TB. Between Spotify, Netflix streaming through Roku, and my local library I'm pretty much set. I do miss CNN and MSNBC on tv, though.

Oh, my point is this: I used to be a pirate. There's just no reason to do it now. The "thrill" of the Napster days are long gone. I've only received one letter from an ISP. I had torrented a porn vid. Lol.
 
Exavior said:
What gray area? This is a black or white. You either pirate stuff or you don't. I don't care if it is well they don't offer X in my area so I have to pirate it or I don't like DRM or any other excuse, pirating is pirating. Just like breaking into a store and stealing a tv is breaking in and stealing a tv, no matter what reason you have for doing so.
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Breaking into a store and stealing a TV deprives the owner of that TV of the use and possession of that TV. A TV is a physical object, a collection of matter that exists only in only one place in the universe. You can have other TVs that look like it that TV, but they are each their own collection of unique matter.

An idea does not have physical substance. Unlike physical objects, ideas can be copied and doing such does not deprive anyone of its use. If I download a music file, it does not magically disappear off of someone else's hard drive.

Copyright infringement is *NOT* theft (see Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207 (1985)). The definition of theft is taking of another's property with the intent to deprive the owner of the use of that property.
 
It isn't piracy until you re-sell it. Don't really care what some group of people have decided is in my best interest.

Pretending a certain order of bits means more than another order of bits is bit-based racism and it is wrong.
 
DrLobotomy said:
It isn't piracy until you re-sell it. Don't really care what some group of people have decided is in my best interest.

Pretending a certain order of bits means more than another order of bits is bit-based racism and it is wrong.
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I know the term racism is basically meaningless these days but really dude?
 
I remember reading a topic exactly like this around 2003. The threats have been around for a long time, thankfully the intended audience for these are the various film/music trade associations, and not their customers... that would be stupid for their bottom line.

damicatz pointed out some good facts, also.
 
lcpiper said:
I'd challenge you on this because I don't see compliance with the law as a CYA maneuver.
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Cool, you lost. There's no law that says an ISP is required to cut off infringes. There may be agreements in place between the MOFIA's and ISP's, but there's no law requiring it. The law says ISP must forward notices. As far as I know, that's as far as the law goes.
 
lcpiper said:
Not any more.

The last court ruling is going to change this. Now an ISP that identifies a pirate must check to see if the pirate has been doing it in the past, and if he has, he now qualifies as a repeat offender even if he has never been previously notified of his offenses.

In short, a guy that pirates a movie, is notified, does it several more times and is repeatedly found and notified is a repeat offender, but so is a guy who has pirated twenty movies in the past and is just now caught and notified, and in both cases the ISP has to ban their accounts.
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lol

Shotglass01 said:
Cool, you lost. There's no law that says an ISP is required to cut off infringes. There may be agreements in place between the MOFIA's and ISP's, but there's no law requiring it. The law says ISP must forward notices. As far as I know, that's as far as the law goes.
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This.


https://www.privateinternetaccess.c...rmation-alleged-pirates-copyright-infringers/
 
damicatz said:
Breaking into a store and stealing a TV deprives the owner of that TV of the use and possession of that TV. A TV is a physical object, a collection of matter that exists only in only one place in the universe. You can have other TVs that look like it that TV, but they are each their own collection of unique matter.

An idea does not have physical substance. Unlike physical objects, ideas can be copied and doing such does not deprive anyone of its use. If I download a music file, it does not magically disappear off of someone else's hard drive.

Copyright infringement is *NOT* theft (see Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207 (1985)). The definition of theft is taking of another's property with the intent to deprive the owner of the use of that property.
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I really don't agree with this kind of justification.

I see that the courts have decided that this is not theft. But they didn't say it's legal either and my problem lies with this concept that the TV represents a physical item and copyrighted works do not.

That TV is not only a physical item but it represents the work and care and resources a business has expended at cost, to produce a product for the purpose of sale and income. I don't see a song written and recorded through the expenditure of labor and costs, for the same purposes, as any different than the TV.

So the courts might rule that pirating is not theft, but they didn't rule that it wasn't illegal and I feel it fits the spirit of the crime all the same. So if someone is pirating content and is called a thief then I think they deserve it Dowling v. United States be damned.

And know this, anyone sitting in the defendant's seat and finds me in the jury box. They can expect that I will hear the evidence, and if I am convinced that they did pirate the content as accused, I'll find them guilty, and liable, and when I see their face, to the end of their days I'll name them thief.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Cool, you lost. There's no law that says an ISP is required to cut off infringes. There may be agreements in place between the MOFIA's and ISP's, but there's no law requiring it. The law says ISP must forward notices. As far as I know, that's as far as the law goes.
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Really, better look further.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...e-rightscorp-trial-cox-loses-key-dmca-motion/

US District Judge Liam O'Grady has ruled that Cox isn't protected by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's "safe harbor" provisions. That's the part of the DMCA that protects "online service providers" from copyright lawsuits if they comply with various parts of the DMCA, including the obligation to terminate "repeat infringers."
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Because Cox did not cut these people off as required by law, Cox lost their protection under "Safe Harbor" meaning Cox became an accomplice in it's user's illegal activities.
https://torrentfreak.com/cox-is-liable-for-pirating-subscribers-ordered-to-pay-25-million-151217/
Internet provider Cox Communications is responsible for the copyright infringements of its subscribers, a Virginia federal jury has ruled. The ISP is guilty of willful contributory copyright infringement and must pay music publisher BMG $25 million in damages.
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Well then I stand corrected. Thanks for the fact check.

lcpiper said:
I see that the courts have decided that this is not theft. But they didn't say it's legal either and my problem lies with this concept that the TV represents a physical item and copyrighted works do not.

That TV is not only a physical item but it represents the work and care and resources a business has expended at cost, to produce a product for the purpose of sale and income. I don't see a song written and recorded through the expenditure of labor and costs, for the same purposes, as any different than the TV.
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Yea, but movie or music does require physical things to create. My issue is the copy. Once the information can be copied then the model changes. Yep, aware of the law is the way the law is. But, they're trying to keep it back in 1990. They're stifling innovation, censoring speech, and generally making it a massive pain for paying customers. They're impacting, negatively, other bushiness (ISP's, Google). Nobody asks Cox to go monitor Circle-K to make sure nothing is stolen from the shelves.
 
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