Time Machine Questions

[ThatsAgood1jay]

Hi all, I've had my MPr for 2 years now, and I've never set up time machine. And am a bit confused on how this will work.

1: I plan on storing the backups on a network drive. Does time machine require to have the drive formatted in a specific way? as in, am I going to have to partition off a section of this network drive to hold the backups?

2: Can I open up previous backups in finder, and find specific files if I need to?

3: Is it possible to restore to a completely different system? (like say I went out and bought a 15" model and wanted to just image the old system onto it)

4: The system has a windows bootcamp partition, is this section included in the time machine backup?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Instigator]

1: I do not believe it has a specific format dependency, have not looked but seeing as I have the same drive backing up Windows files that are larger than 4GB I doubt it.

2: You go through Time Machine and you can pull out certain files, you do not have to fully roll back.

3: I believe you can restore a different system although I would recommend migrating files instead.

4: Not sure about bootcamp, cannot answer that as I keep my OS's on different machines.

 

[Archer1212]

1: requires the system to be in HFS journaled.
2: yes, but using the actual time machine program is a bit more user friendly (click on time machine icon in top menu, click on "open time machine", finder window will open. you will go to your folder, chose the date to restore from, click on file/folder, choose restore)
3: yes, thats one of the best features since then everything transfers over and its like the same computer again.
4: no, and it cant backup that partition.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

1.) No. As long as you don't mean a "special Time Machine format." It will require HFS+, or "Mac OS Extended" (same thing).

2.) Not quite. You'd open the finder Window that the file you want is in. Then enter Time Machine. In Time Machine using that open folder you can go forward or backward "in time". The backups will be labeled by date. In time machine you should be able to check each version you want before restoration. The first time I used it, it honestly didn't feel intuitive. But it only takes a few minutes to figure out how it works.

3.) Yes. However you cannot backup two machines to the same Time Machine backup. As I'm sure you can recognize that would be problematic.

4.) The short answer is: "no". But you can use alternative methods to backup your Bootcamp partition (if it's necessary). Honestly since I work in OSX I don't keep anything of true value in Windows (just games, which can easily be redownloaded). If you need it for work purposes then perhaps check this slightly dated but still relevant information: How To Easily Back Up and Restore Boot Camp Partitions - Apple Gazette

 

[mope54]

You will have to create a separate partition on a network drive because it'll need to be in HFS+, which Windows networked computers won't be able to see or access.
Also, a networked drive is going to have to rely on netatalk unless you are using OS X Server. Netatalk is up to 3.1.8 but all of the 3rd party implementations I've seen use 2.x.x and regardless of version netatalk has proven unreliable for Time Machine backups. I'm not sure if Sierra is already using SMB2 for Time Machine but it's rumored to be once the OS goes live. It might be worth it to use a USB connected drive for the time being.

 

[Brian_B]

1- Networked drives for Time Machine can be whatever format - lots of NASes and routers support Time Machine at whatever native format their disks use and doesn't even need a seperate partition necessarily, you just need to enable the Time Machine service . A local (USB) drive will need HFSj

2 - everyone covered this

3 - Yes, pretty much covered

4 - No, at least not by Time Machine.

 

[mope54]

1- Networked drives for Time Machine can be whatever format - lots of NASes and routers support Time Machine at whatever native format their disks use and doesn't even need a seperate partition necessarily, you just need to enable the Time Machine service

Technically true but poor advice all around.

It's important to note a few things for the person considering a networked drive for Time Machine backups.

The first, and primary concern, is that Time Machine backups on a networked drive are completely unsupported.

The only way you can do this is by tricking Time Machine into using unsupported backups (it's a setting accessible via command line). You can do this on a straight networked drive by creating a sparse bundle and forcing Time Machine to mount it as an unsupported volume.

Or you can do this via a NAS or router using netatalk. The 2.x versions of netatalk are over 3 years old. There have been a number of Time Machine improvements and OS X upgrades in that time (circa Mountain Lion). Netatalk is a reverse engineered implementation of AFP, which itself has already been deprecated by Apple.

If you search various forums you'll find numerous concerns regarding the reliability of the backups. I use netatalk with my router for my Time Machine backups but they've been non-operable because it regularly says the backup is corrupt and needs to rebuild the backup. That's a relatively common occurrence even though I hadn't personally encountered it until recently. That's aside from the more general concern of whether the files themselves are safely and reliably being backed up within the sparse bundle, which you won't find out until you actually need the file.

When you use a networked drive, and monkey around with the backup destination enough to make it work with Time Machine, you lose all the goodness of Time Machine backups. Namely the ability to restore from the backup from restore. Instead, you have to install OS X and then migrate the files over. If you are using a 3rd party system like a NAS and the system goes down you're completely hoses if you decided to not use HFS+ for some reason.

Finally, at the end of the day there are reliable methods to back up your computer, that will also backup the Windows partition, and the only thing you give up will be the integrated Time Machine browsing and scheduling (things that can be handled by 3rd party apps and scripts). You're far better off using something like SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner or something residing elsewhere (like something that is on the server or NAS).

 

[Brian_B]

Well I won't comment about it being poor advice or not - it did used to be unspported.. but

No monkeying needed. Pretty much just works, no need to use command line for anything. Apple has supported select network attached devices for a long time now - including their own routers.

You can't install from the backup, but you can restore from it during the installation process. I've done this plenty of times, without any issue - maybe I've just been lucky. There are times were Time Machine will re-build the backup out of the blue, but I've seen this with direct attached backups as well, so it's nothing unique to network backups.

 

[mope54]

If you want to use unsupported backups that's your prerogative, but it's simply not true to claim that Apple now supports networked attached drives. As I've explained twice now, third party solutions rely on netatalk, which is a reverse engineered implementation of the AFP protocol. It can't handle all of the file checking that Time Machine requires, you do not get the benefits of a Time Machine backup when you use a sparse image, and that's ignoring the huge problem of using an outdated package (years old) that nearly all third party and Linux distros use. I only say nearly because I can't say all of them, but in over five years of working with the code base and helping third party developers integrate it into their platforms I've never seen one use anything other than 2.x's.

It doesn't even sound like the person asking for advice had a NAS or router. He sounds like he just wants to use a drive on his network perhaps attached to his Windows computer. There's no possible way to simply attach such a drive and have time machine just work.

The fact that you've had corrupted backups and rebuilt the image multiple times should have much greater impact than my anonymous words. Clearly you've just been lucky that you didn't need your backup one of those times, or any of those old data you lost after the rebuild, or worse you don't actually know what you have or haven't lost until you try and open a file... Or a picture that you open and only half of it is there.

Those aren't the kind of risks people should be taking with their backup data or advice given to others. Especially true when there are solid and reliable methods to do what he wants in the form of Super Duper or carbon copy cloner.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

I haven't looked through Apple's support documents, but are you stating that Apple's own "Time Capsule" product is not intended to use "Time Machine" backups? If so, I guess I was doing it wrong.

According to Wikipedia, Apple in its original design, created the Airport TIme Capsule to be used specifically with Time Machine.

Apple describes it as a "Backup Appliance", designed to work in tandem with the Time Machine backup software utility introduced in Mac OS X 10.5.[1]

For clarity, Time Capsule's are essentially a router/switch/WAP/NAS. Another note, this is a product still being manufactured.

 

[mope54]

I haven't looked through Apple's support documents, but are you stating that Apple's own "Time Capsule" product is not intended to use "Time Machine" backups? If so, I guess I was doing it wrong.

According to Wikipedia, Apple in its original design, created the Airport TIme Capsule to be used specifically with Time Machine.



For clarity, Time Capsule's are essentially a router/switch/WAP/NAS. Another note, this is a product still being manufactured.

We were talking about networked drives and 3rd party Time Machine solutions.

Time Capsule, OS X Server, iCloud, and any other Apple solution shouldn't have had to be clarified. It's obvious in context since there's no rational way to read my warnings against using unsupported networking schemas as a warning against Apple's own products.