Time for a new computer, need some (lots of) advice

[Soapy5]

Hi everyone, its been a while (5 years!). Its about time I replace my aging computer, and realized that I am completly ignorant on the status of today's hardware. So, of course, I am asking for your help !

I want to build a best-bang-for-the-buck computer that can drive 3 monitors at 1920 x 1200 each and play some modern games at a respectable graphics level. What i mean by best bang for the buck (Ignoring the monitors): Instead of spending $2000 on a tower and trying to make it last 5 years, I'd rather spend $1000 now and build another $1000 tower 2.5 years later. Or something along those lines.
Before I get too indepth, I'll start off with the nifty fill-in-the-blank form and try to elaborate further down:


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming, Internet, 1080 flash videos (youtube)
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Budget is fairly flexible. I am aiming for a $1500 - $2000 system, including monitors. I do not want to spend anything over $2500.
3) Where do you live?
Dallas, Tx (driving distance to both a Fry's and a Microcenter)
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Cpu, Motherboard, Ram, a PSU if my current one is not enough (see below), Video Card, would like to have harddrives and a SSD but not absolutly necessary, and maybe a bluray drive
EDIT: oh, and any alternate suggestions for monitors would also be welcome!
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
If I can cannabalize any parts from my old computer, I will:
Case: Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Video Card Cooler: ZALMAN VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler
CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS7700-CU 120mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS GAMER
PSU: PC Power and Cooling S61EPS 610W;
DVD Burner: SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe
Hard drives: a 160Gb and two 500Gb drives
6) Will you be overclocking?
yes, eventually
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
three 27" LCD monitors at 1920 x 1200 each
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I would like to buy the parts as soon as possible, but am willing to wait a few weeks if better deals are over the horizon.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.
I am not 100% sure. I'm guessing Raid 5, USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s, sandwich maker...
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
yes, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

I do have a few questions:

How will today's best-bang-for-the-buck computer fare with upcoming games such as BF3, Skyrim, etc on triple monitors? If it cant play them at a respectable level (say 70%-80% of max graphics using 3 monitors) im willing to go higher on the price range aslong as it stays below my $2500 cap.

What is better: the onboard sound on today's mobo's or a 6 year old dedicated sound card (Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS GAMER)?

What is better: Stock cooler on today's video card, or the ZALMAN VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler (will it even fit todays video cards)? Same question for the CPU cooler.

As for the "would like to have but not critical" hardware, I was thinking of having a SSD for the OS and three 2Tb drives in raid 5 for general storage. I might also use my existing 500Gb drives in Raid 0 for program files and the like.

Here's a partial wishlist (like i previously mentioned, the harddrives and optical drives are "would like to have, but do not absolutly need"):

1 - OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-60G 2.5" 60GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - $134

3 - Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 2TB 5900 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $79.99 each, $239.97 total

3 - Hanns-G HZ281HPB 27.5'' 3ms Full HD 1080P HDMI WideScreen LCD Monitor 400cd/m2 X-Contrast 15,000:1(800:1)Built-in Speakers $269.99 each, $809.97 total

1 - SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-/+R 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Drive Model SH-B123L/RSBP LightScribe Support (Retail) $64.99

Subtotal: $1,249.92

Of course, everything is up for change and review. Even fundemental stuff like having 3 monitors if there is a good enough reason for it.

 

[tiraides]

What games are you playing? Are you trying to play 3D games? On all three monitors?

Are you going to watch Blu-ray movies on your computer? If so, how often?

What's the most resource-intensive task or program that you'll be using your computer for?

Seriously, which motherboard features do you plan on immediately using?

 

[Dangman]

While we wait for you to answer tiraides' questions, I'll answer some of yours:

How will today's best-bang-for-the-buck computer fare with upcoming games such as BF3, Skyrim, etc on triple monitors? If it cant play them at a respectable level (say 70%-80% of max graphics using 3 monitors) im willing to go higher on the price range aslong as it stays below my $2500 cap.

Really can't answer that since those two games aren't even out yet. Yes those games will have higher hardware requirements than their respective predecessors but no one can say just how much more hardware those games will need compared to those older games. So basically, it's just a shot in the dark here with whatever GPUs you get.

What is better: the onboard sound on today's mobo's or a 6 year old dedicated sound card (Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS GAMER)?

Probably the Audigy 2 ZS Gamer but last I heard Windows 7 drivers for those series of cards sucked.

What is better: Stock cooler on today's video card, or the ZALMAN VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler (will it even fit todays video cards)?

Depends on which specific card we're talking about. There's a ton of GPUs out there with a variety of different stock coolers. Some perform as well as that VF900, some better, and some possibly worse. It really depends on which specific card you're talking about.

Same question for the CPU cooler.

Way better than the stock cooler for sure. Plus, all you need is a simple $5 bracket and that CPU HSF will work with all of the current sockets out there.

three 2Tb drives in raid 5 for general storage.

Yeah not the best of ideas to use RAID 5 in Windows if you're not using a true hardware RAID controllers (around $250 to $400 minimum)

 

[Soapy5]

What games are you playing? Are you trying to play 3D games? On all three monitors?

Are you going to watch Blu-ray movies on your computer? If so, how often?

What's the most resource-intensive task or program that you'll be using your computer for?

Seriously, which motherboard features do you plan on immediately using?

In terms of games that already are out there, I would like to be able to play DCS: A10C on all three monitors with high graphics. Also games like Mass Effect 2, Portal 2, Starcraft 2, EVE: incarnia, various FPS's, etc etc. Not planning on playing 3d games per se. If I do, I wouldn't mind just using 1 monitor.

To be 100% honest, the whole reason I want 3 monitors is to run DCS: A10C in sweet, sweet 3 monitor glory. I initially was looking at large format displays, but the cheapest ones were $1000 and the total resolution was still 1080p, which was kinda low (for a 40" screen IMO).

As for the other games, I would love to be able to play them on all three monitors, but not sure if they would be supported. Would if I could, but not the end of the world if I cant.

The most resource intensive task I can imagine is either DCS: A10C on three monitors on high graphics while simultaneously running a face tracker or head tracker software.

The blue-ray player was something i thought would be "nice-to-have".

And as for the mobo, ability to RAID, Sata 6gb/s, decently overclock able, should not be a bottleneck. I dont plan on using usb3.0 immediately (i dont even know of any devices that use that), I just though it would be nice to have for future-proofness.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Dangman]

Prelim build:
$375 - Intel Core i5 2500K CPU + MSI P67A-GD65 Intel P67 ATX Motherboard Combo
$181 - G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM + Corsair 850TX V2 850W PSU Combo
$700 - 2 x MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 Radeon HD 6970 2GB PCI-E Video Card
$135 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SSD
----
Total: $1391 plus tax and shipping.

For the above hardware, I recommend getting a new case like these:
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$150 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/SILVERSTONE-RV02B-W-Steel-Tower-Computer/dp/B002M78KZG?tag=atmlinr-20"]Amazon.com: SILVERSTONE RV02B-W 0.8 mm Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (Matte Black): Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XXRQVNhyL.@@AMEPARAM@@41XXRQVNhyL[/ame] - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case

 

[Soapy5]

Prelim build:
$375 - Intel Core i5 2500K CPU + MSI P67A-GD65 Intel P67 ATX Motherboard Combo
$181 - G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM + Corsair 850TX V2 850W PSU Combo
$700 - 2 x MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 Radeon HD 6970 2GB PCI-E Video Card
$135 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SSD
----
Total: $1391 plus tax and shipping.

For the above hardware, I recommend getting a new case like these:
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$150 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
Amazon.com: SILVERSTONE RV02B-W 0.8 mm Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (Matte Black): Electronics - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case

Thanks, Danny, this is pretty much what I was I looking for! I do have two questions:

I'd like to keep my P180 case. Its roomy, quiet, and I love the look. Plus, if the graphic cards are extra long, i can remove the drive bay to make room. Any reason you recommended the other cases (other than looks)?

Second question is the two graphics cards. for the $700, Is there a single card option available that would be equal in performance? Or do I have to do crossfire/sli for three monitors? The reason I ask is because I am a bit wary about the fact that the PCI bandwidth gets cut in half with two cards. Is that a big deal?

Again, thanks for you input!

 

[Dangman]

I'd like to keep my P180 case. Its roomy, quiet, and I love the look. Plus, if the graphic cards are extra long, i can remove the drive bay to make room. Any reason you recommended the other cases (other than looks)?

Better cooling for the dual GPUs. The P180 case isn't that good of a choice for a dual-GPU setup or high-end GPU setup. That's pretty much my main concern: heat. I still use the P180 as my main case so I know first hand how hot a P18x series setup can be compared to other non-P18x case setups.

If you're looking for quiet, the Silverstone RV02B-W is actually quieter than the P18x series of cases while providing far far superior cooling.

If you want to stick with the P182 case, then I recomend going for a single HD 6970 2GB instead to lessen the impact of the P182's cooling.

Second question is the two graphics cards. for the $700, Is there a single card option available that would be equal in performance? Or do I have to do crossfire/sli for three monitors? The reason I ask is because I am a bit wary about the fact that the PCI bandwidth gets cut in half with two cards. Is that a big deal?

It's not a big deal at all. There's actually little to real world difference between video cards running at x4 and x16 speeds let alone the typical x8 speeds of a Crossfire or SLI setup. There is in fact a single card option that would be close in performance: the HD 6990 4GB. However that card is pretty much sold out. And it's basically two GPUs in Crossfire on a single card anyway. So in a way, if you want high setttings or high FPS or both with three 1920x1080 monitors, yes you're gonna need Crossfire or SLI.

 

[Soapy5]

Okay, so after abit of looking around I found that I could not improve on Danny Bui's build. So this is pretty much what I have finalized. I included the harddrives in the total cost, but am planning on holding off on that purchase until I need it.

However, I still have a few questions concerning RAID with windows. Danny mentioned that Raid 5 in windows is not recommended: Why? Wouldn't it at least be better than having JBOD? Are there any other solutions? Also, I noticed the motherboard (and most other motherboards) have one raid controller (Intel P67) for the first and second SATA III ports, and another controller (Marvell SE9128) for the remaining two. Since Raid 5 requires at least 3 drives, how would the split controllers affect the raid since two harddrives are on one controller, and the last is on the other?

3 x Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 2TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

$79.99 each, $239.97 total​

3x Hanns-G HZ281HPB 27.5'' 3ms Full HD 1080P HDMI WideScreen LCD Monitor 400cd/m2 X-Contrast 15,000:1(800:1)Built-in Speakers

$269.99 each, 809.97 total​

2 x MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

$339.99 each, $679.98 total​

1 x SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-/+R 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Drive Model SH-B123L/RSBP LightScribe Support (Retail)

$64​

1 x Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$119.99​

1 x CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply and G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL combo

$180.98​

1 x MSI P67A-GD65 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard and Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K combo

$374.98​

Shipping: $20.28
Grand Total: $2,491.14
Grand Total (no hdd): $2,248.17

I'll start purchasing stuff this week (I am planning on visiting fry's to see if they have some of the hardware there). Once again, thanks for your inputs! Oh, and if there are still any suggestions or changes, please let me know!


Edit: Now that I know what Videocard I'm getting, I have to ask again: which is better, the stock cooler on the HD 6970 or the zalman VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler?

 

[tonytnnt]

You can get that processor at Microcenter for $180+tax. I realize on Newegg it's in a combo deal, but it may come out cheaper if you can get that motherboard in combination with something else. In fact, with that 64GB Crucial M4, you could take advantage of the Z68 chipset's SSD caching. But I also really like the MSI P67A-GD65 too (and the rest of MSIs P67A range actually.)

 

[Soapy5]

You can get that processor at Microcenter for $180+tax. I realize on Newegg it's in a combo deal, but it may come out cheaper if you can get that motherboard in combination with something else. In fact, with that 64GB Crucial M4, you could take advantage of the Z68 chipset's SSD caching. But I also really like the MSI P67A-GD65 too (and the rest of MSIs P67A range actually.)

Ok, the microcenter near me does have that cpu. Looking at some Z68 mobos, I came across this:

GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard and Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
combo - $274.98

So I still get to keep a combo deal! Any opinions on that motherboard?
As for the Raid issue, I found out that the Marvel controller does not support raid 5, so that is out of the picture. I was thinking about just having a raid 0 setup, but how risky is that? Is it a common practice?

 

[Dangman]

However, I still have a few questions concerning RAID with windows. Danny mentioned that Raid 5 in windows is not recommended: Why? Wouldn't it at least be better than having JBOD? Are there any other solutions?

A few reasons:
1) You have to get hard drives that supports TLER or some variant of it. Otherwise, the RAID array will keep kicking those hard drives out of the RAID array or won't detect them. Those drives tend to cost a whole lot more than their regular consumer cousins. With that said, Samsung and Hitachi drives supposedly work rather well with Windows RAID.

2) As your RAID array gets filled up, there will be a greater impact on the performance of the system itself as more and more CPU power is needed to calculate the parity data

3) Windows software RAID tend to not be as reliable as other RAID array types.

4) Relatively low performance.

With that said, if you truly truly want uptime of your data (remember that RAID is not backup) and can deal with the performance impact, then yeah, go for a RAID 5 array on the ICH10R controller.

Edit: Now that I know what Videocard I'm getting, I have to ask again: which is better, the stock cooler on the HD 6970 or the zalman VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler?

Probably the stock cooler I'd imagine. But note that replacing the stock cooler on that MSI card will void the warranty.

O
So I still get to keep a combo deal! Any opinions on that motherboard?
As for the Raid issue, I found out that the Marvel controller does not support raid 5, so that is out of the picture. I was thinking about just having a raid 0 setup, but how risky is that? Is it a common practice?

Fairly risky. Only a common practice when you need high performance from the hard drives, you don't care about the data at all, and/or have a backup of the data.

 

[E4g1e]

However, I still have a few questions concerning RAID with windows. Danny mentioned that Raid 5 in windows is not recommended: Why? Wouldn't it at least be better than having JBOD? Are there any other solutions? Also, I noticed the motherboard (and most other motherboards) have one raid controller (Intel P67) for the first and second SATA III ports, and another controller (Marvell SE9128) for the remaining two. Since Raid 5 requires at least 3 drives, how would the split controllers affect the raid since two harddrives are on one controller, and the last is on the other?

Actually, only the Intel controller (between the Intel and Marvel controllers) supports RAID 5. And you cannot create a single RAID array with drives connected to two separate controllers (whether discrete or onboard). That means that you cannot RAID a drive connected to the Intel controller with a drive connected to the Marvell controller.

In any case, the Intel RAID controller is a software RAID, not a hardware RAID. RAID 5 on a software controller is substantially slower than mere disk benchmark results indicate; in fact, the real-world performance of a RAID 5 array on a software RAID controller can be up to ten times slower than a single disk in JBOD mode! That is the biggest reason why neither Danny nor I recommend a RAID 5 unless you spend an extra $400 or more for a discrete PCI-e hardware RAID controller card with its own dedicated cache memory.

RAID 0 and/or RAID 1 are OK on a software RAID controller such as the onboard Intel controller.

 

[tonytnnt]

Do you want RAID for uptime purposes or performance purposes? Because like Danny said, it's not a backup. Even if you don't get a hard drive failure, you can still have files become corrupt (or worse.) Assuming you need that much data storage for video files, I would probably go with an external backup solution, whether that's external harddrives, a NAS, or tape.

 

[Soapy5]

Do you want RAID for uptime purposes or performance purposes? Because like Danny said, it's not a backup. Even if you don't get a hard drive failure, you can still have files become corrupt (or worse.) Assuming you need that much data storage for video files, I would probably go with an external backup solution, whether that's external harddrives, a NAS, or tape.

I was intending on using Raid for performance. I know that RAID =/= Backup, and I do have a small backup external hdd for all my important stuff. Since raid 5 is out of the picture anyway, the only thing I was considering was having my two old 500 gb drives in raid 1 for program files and the like. As it is, I am going to buy just one 2TB drive for mass storage and leave it alone.

Edit:

Ok, so I went ahead and purchased all the parts. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Thanks again for all of your help!

The final purchase was:

1 - GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

2 - MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

1 - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply

1 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

1 - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL

1 - HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

3 - Hanns-G HZ281HPB 27.5'' 3ms Full HD 1080P HDMI WideScreen LCD Monitor 400cd/m2 X-Contrast 15,000:1(800:1)Built-in Speakers

1 - Intel i5 3.3GHz from Fry's $194.39 after tax

Order Total $2,277.00