Tim Sweeney: Microsoft Wants To Monopolize Game Development On PC

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It looks as though Tim Sweeney isn't too happy with Microsoft's Universal Windows Platform. Aside from the Unreal Engine, when was the last time Epic put out anything for the PC?


With its new Universal Windows Platform (UWP) initiative, Microsoft has built a closed platform-within-a-platform into Windows 10, as the first apparent step towards locking down the consumer PC ecosystem and monopolizing app distribution and commerce. This isn’t like that. Here, Microsoft is moving against the entire PC industry – including consumers (and gamers in particular), software developers such as Epic Games, publishers like EA and Activision, and distributors like Valve and Good Old Games.
 
Microsoft needs to relax restrictions or else no one (who they're not paying off) will use this UWP as is. Google makes millions off the Google Play store despite the fact that Android apps can be distributed freely.

If Microsoft allows apps to be installed from anywhere (even if the user has to check off a "allow unapproved sources" checkbox somewhere and fixes the issues with Vsync and multi-GPU support then maybe they have a chance in hell of getting developers to use this. Otherwise they run the very real risk of annoying customers enough that they jump ship to a competing OS... Of course that would require a competing OS to jump ship to, but who knows what the future will bring.

This reminds me of the Xbox One launch and we all know how that went.
 
Not surprising, completely logical business wise, but ultimately futile, IMO. With the amount of Linux variant's making rapid advancements (again, IMO), and if Vulkan turns out to be as good as it appears to, look to be. One really shouldn't be surprised MS is trying to hold on to future business.
 
Quix said:
If Microsoft allows apps to be installed from anywhere (even if the user has to check off a "allow unapproved sources" checkbox somewhere and fixes the issues with Vsync and multi-GPU support then maybe they have a chance in hell of getting developers to use this. Otherwise they run the very real risk of annoying customers enough that they jump ship to a competing OS... Of course that would require a competing OS to jump ship to, but who knows what the future will bring.

This reminds me of the Xbox One launch and we all know how that went.
Click to expand...

They enabled sideloading of apps in the November update. And likely the restrictions of interacting with win32 apps will be resolved when they enable developers ability to add win32 apps in the store when Redstone is complete. And BTW, the hold up is because they are trying to have those apps run in a VM so they don't trash the system during installs and they can do one click installs similar to OSX.

If Microsoft was somehow forbidding 3rd party stores from running on 10 then he'll have a point, but they aren't. It's their store and they can run it how they want. It's presence isn't going to cause GoG or Steam to go away overnight, and lets not forget how those sucked in the beginning too...
 
Wow, 30% cut for putting an icon in the store? Haha

So Windows 10 has privacy issues, telemetry, built-in operating system ads, restricting games through their app store so they can't enable graphics options like SLI, forced automatic updates, and now UWP? What else am I forgetting? Is M$ digging a hole to hell? Maybe it's more like paving a highway, because they are moving that direction fast... I was ready to jump on Windows 10 after the Win8 fiasco. :( I guess I'll skip it. I would rather use WinME before Win10... :)
 
I don't like the direction this is heading. This seems like part of a larger battle where you have traditional windows programs/games on one end, and "apps" on the other. It seems like there is an increasing push to get rid of the former, so that every program/game is eventually distributed as an "app" through the windows store. In terms of gaming this is nearly the equivalent of trying to turn the PC into a console gaming system. The degree to which these "app" games are locked down is disgusting. Not being able to control things like VSync, not being able to mod the game in any way because of the way it's sandboxed like an app, etc directly goes against what makes PC gaming great for many. Unfortunately for the majority of people this will probably be a superior system. Traditional PC games, and having to actually install them the traditional way etc, is probably too complicated for your average retard who just wants to mash his/her fingers against the screen in the app store to download their games.

It's also pretty sad, DirectX12 was supposed to be largely about giving developers more direct access to the hardware. Isn't a game operating within an obnoxious sandboxed app environment essentially the exact opposite of that goal?

This is also going to usher in a new era of micro-transactions and DLC, since all payment info will already be stored in the app store and conveniently handled by Microsoft, there will be no limit to how much more you will end up conned into paying in order to actually enjoy a game.
 
This guys comment at the bottom of the article rubbed me the wrong way: "I may have misunderstood, but isn't this what Apple do? No-one seems to complain about that." The reason many of us buy PC is because it isn't an Apple like closed system.

I'm fighting the good fight anyway and vow to never install Win10 or buy any more Microsoft games or software.
 
Let me introduce you LINUX. It slices it dices, and it plays games. It doesn't even spy on you. What's up with that? BTW Xbox One owners, this is how you know that console is failing. Microsoft wants to turn your PC into a console.

 
This is kind of a pointless complaint.
Who in the world uses the windows app store?
Why would anyone use the windows app store instead of Steam, Gog, etc? What possible incentive does a developer have?
 
grtitan said:
Now thats more like the M$ that we all know and love. Yes, you saw that correctly, the $ is back.
Click to expand...

I feel like that's the sticking point for me, how much the service ends up being from a price/value sort of sense. As someone who has a win10 gaming pc, xbone and windows phone i'd love the MS app store to become more like steam so i could buy once and play on all my devices. If however i lost the ability to load up on $5-10 games like i do during a steam sale thanks to M$ factor then i feel that's too high of a price for me. Can microsoft be trusted to provide the same value as GoG/Steam/etc? i'm not that hopeful.
 
Ryokurin said:
They enabled sideloading of apps in the November update.
Click to expand...

IMHO, that's the catch, they allow that now and then, when the store has a bigger foothold, boom, a windows update will take that away. And would not be surprised if the same windows update affects Steam client, by mistake of course. ;)
 
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At last we seem to have a new tech war on our hands.
 
DukenukemX said:
Let me introduce you LINUX. It slices it dices, and it plays games. It doesn't even spy on you. What's up with that? BTW Xbox One owners, this is how you know that console is failing. Microsoft wants to turn your PC into a console.

Click to expand...


The chances of Linux becoming the primary gaming OS are slim, at best.
 
I have no idea what UWP is, and have never once opened an "app" on my win10 pc.
I use Steam, Uplay, Battle.net, retail, etc... For my games, not MS.
I felt this article was only applicable to those that want an app(read: cell phone/tablet) experience on their desktop. Am I incorrect?
 
Hypergreatthing said:
This is kind of a pointless complaint.
Who in the world uses the windows app store?
Why would anyone use the windows app store instead of Steam, Gog, etc? What possible incentive does a developer have?
Click to expand...

I'm sure those are the questions Microsoft has been asking. The danger with this is that they'll do something obnoxious like hold DirectX hostage the same way they did to get people to use Vista and now Windows 10. "Oh, if you want to use DX13 then you'll have to use UWP". Given Microsoft's attitude to PC gaming ever since they invented the Xbox, what incentive is there for them not to fuck with Windows gamers? From their point of view they can only benefit if games either fall in line and pay to use their app store, or even if they abandon Windows altogether since that can only benefit the Xbox.
 
Quix said:
If Microsoft allows apps to be installed from anywhere (even if the user has to check off a "allow unapproved sources" checkbox somewhere...
Click to expand...
Uh... they already allow apps to be installed from anywhere, and the user can check a box to allow unsigned apps... this is already in Windows 10
 
We pretty much saw this bullshit coming since day one of Windows 8 when the Metro store first appeared. Fortunately MS took so long to reveal their true intentions that at this point it doesn't matter. Nobody is going to buy games from the Windows Store with all these restrictions and worthless UWP wrappers on games.
 
DukenukemX said:
Let me introduce you LINUX. It slices it dices, and it plays games. It doesn't even spy on you. What's up with that? BTW Xbox One owners, this is how you know that console is failing. Microsoft wants to turn your PC into a console.

Click to expand...


Yea, Microosft pretty much abandoned PC gamers due to their Xbox but now they see the writing on the wall that PC is now outselling consoles and they want back in. Get stuffed.
 
Litfod said:
I'm sure those are the questions Microsoft has been asking. The danger with this is that they'll do something obnoxious like hold DirectX hostage the same way they did to get people to use Vista and now Windows 10. "Oh, if you want to use DX13 then you'll have to use UWP". Given Microsoft's attitude to PC gaming ever since they invented the Xbox, what incentive is there for them not to fuck with Windows gamers? From their point of view they can only benefit if games either fall in line and pay to use their app store, or even if they abandon Windows altogether since that can only benefit the Xbox.
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That's a really big stretch. Fairly sure they'd be slapped down hard by developers and video card manufacturers.
They were able to get away with that between .. what was it? 98 and xp or xp and 7 and claim they didn't have the time to create backwards compatible drivers? I believe someone else figured out how to load it on there anyways.
It would cause a flurry of activity with competing libraries such as opengl if they tried to screw over everyone. They'd be shooting themselves.
 
alxlwson said:
I have no idea what UWP is, and have never once opened an "app" on my win10 pc.
I use Steam, Uplay, Battle.net, retail, etc... For my games, not MS.
I felt this article was only applicable to those that want an app(read: cell phone/tablet) experience on their desktop. Am I incorrect?
Click to expand...
I believe that is incorrect. By default, if you want your app to be cross-platform, you have to use M$'s built-in store. You have to give M$ 30% of your sales. It wasn't until November that they even gave you the option to get it a different way. At least, for the time being.

I'm sure I read it right, but isn't what M$ trying to do basically is what google already does on androids with their google play store - only apps in their store are what you can install on your phone? I'm not much of a "smart" phone guru is why I ask. If so, then yes we need to make M$ stop then google needs to unlock their death grip on phones.
 
emmjawsX said:
If however i lost the ability to load up on $5-10 games like i do during a steam sale thanks to M$ factor then i feel that's too high of a price for me. Can microsoft be trusted to provide the same value as GoG/Steam/etc? i'm not that hopeful.
Click to expand...

Perhaps an even better question is, can M$ be trusted to keep the service running for the gullible who actually purchased crap from it, after they eventually pull the plug when M$ deems it unsuccessful (ala GFWL, desktop widgets, the zune, etc). I honestly don't have a whole lot of faith. IMHO, both Windows phone and the windows appstore are on borrowed time. Even the new Xbox isn't doing very great.
 
ShagnWagn said:
I believe that is incorrect. By default, if you want your app to be cross-platform, you have to use M$'s built-in store. You have to give M$ 30% of your sales. It wasn't until November that they even gave you the option to get it a different way. At least, for the time being.

I'm sure I read it right, but isn't what M$ trying to do basically is what google already does on androids with their google play store - only apps in their store are what you can install on your phone? I'm not much of a "smart" phone guru is why I ask. If so, then yes we need to make M$ stop then google needs to unlock their death grip on phones.
Click to expand...

I think Google's deathgrip comes more from a security standpoint. Imagine the mess that cell networks would be in if everyones phone was able to be turned into another zombie box for DDoS attacks. Hell, I have more personal information on my phone than I do on my computer. Plus, the carriers and vendors don't want to have to support that kind of mess.
Rooting a phone is very easy, most of the time. Unless iit's a Samsung device from ATT.
 
rezerekted said:
This guys comment at the bottom of the article rubbed me the wrong way: "I may have misunderstood, but isn't this what Apple do? No-one seems to complain about that." The reason many of us buy PC is because it isn't an Apple like closed system.

I'm fighting the good fight anyway and vow to never install Win10 or buy any more Microsoft games or software.
Click to expand...
Thank you. If people jump ship to another OS where are they going? Apple? because they have been doing this for years. Linux? plz, switch OS just to play games? and then go through the hoops to ensure that it plays well on it? I am more than sure MS will still allow steam and EA acces on their OS. They didnt cut EA access from their console unlike sony who didnt even entertain it.
 
alxlwson said:
I think Google's deathgrip comes more from a security standpoint. Imagine the mess that cell networks would be in if everyones phone was able to be turned into another zombie box for DDoS attacks. Hell, I have more personal information on my phone than I do on my computer. Plus, the carriers and vendors don't want to have to support that kind of mess.
Rooting a phone is very easy, most of the time. Unless iit's a Samsung device from ATT.
Click to expand...
That's what the windows store platform was built on, apps to run on windows phones and computers which is why those apps are limited. Having standards of security for apps in your store will do that. Similar to how UAC made alot of people groan over poorly programmed applications wanting admin privileges for no reason.
DukenukemX said:
Let me introduce you LINUX. It slices it dices, and it plays games. It doesn't even spy on you. What's up with that? BTW Xbox One owners, this is how you know that console is failing. Microsoft wants to turn your PC into a console.

Click to expand...

Ubuntu sends your amazon dash data for money last time i checked and barely supporting GPUs to sometimes eventually run AAA games hardly counts as "games", last time i checked even iD doesn't publish to linux the proponents of openGL
 
dr.stevil said:
Perhaps an even better question is, can M$ be trusted to keep the service running for the gullible who actually purchased crap from it, after they eventually pull the plug when M$ deems it unsuccessful (ala GFWL, desktop widgets, the zune, etc). I honestly don't have a whole lot of faith. IMHO, both Windows phone and the windows appstore are on borrowed time. Even the new Xbox isn't doing very great.
Click to expand...

That really is a great point - my experience with windows phone has been mixed in that regard over the years (tragic user since 7.5 here) but overall leaning towards bad. The 3rd party standalone apps i use have mostly had no problems but there have been many microsoft apps that have just had the plug pulled on them. The nokia transition was also messy as hell and caused me a few headaches - the continuity of services that i had enjoyed since the symbian days was obliterated. Additional the first thing i thought after the recent spring xbox announcements was "GFWL 2.0" - that doesn't give me a lot of hope.
 
Derangel said:
The chances of Linux becoming the primary gaming OS are slim, at best.
Click to expand...
Then enjoy playing games from the Windows App Store. Which limits...

  • No SLI/Crossfire,
  • Windows 10 store download is buggy,
  • No refund policy explained,
  • Vsync is always on,
  • Always borderless fullscreen,
  • Game files are protected,
  • Can't launch it via the exe (So adding it as a non steam game will not work)
  • No fps/hardware monitor software works with it,
  • You need to take control of the folder as admin if you want access to the files
  • Mouse software which lets you create custom binds for each game doesn't work
  • Say bye to using sweetfx and mods
  • Since no fps/hardware monitor software works, this means overlays meaning no Steam Controller since you can't use Big Picture Mode
Continue saying that Linux will never become a gaming OS. Look at what future Windows gaming has. Microsoft will find a way to impose this, you know they will.
 
dr.stevil said:
Perhaps an even better question is, can M$ be trusted to keep the service running for the gullible who actually purchased crap from it, after they eventually pull the plug when M$ deems it unsuccessful (ala GFWL, desktop widgets, the zune, etc). I honestly don't have a whole lot of faith. IMHO, both Windows phone and the windows appstore are on borrowed time. Even the new Xbox isn't doing very great.
Click to expand...
The new xbox is doing better than the old xbox (360) at this point. You really cant say its not so great because of how the ps4 has been selling like hotcakes. Not to start a console war, but their online services and ecosystem is very dependable.
 
DukenukemX said:
Then enjoy playing games from the Windows App Store. Which limits...

  • No SLI/Crossfire,
  • Windows 10 store download is buggy,
  • No refund policy explained,
  • Vsync is always on,
  • Always borderless fullscreen,
  • Game files are protected,
  • Can't launch it via the exe (So adding it as a non steam game will not work)
  • No fps/hardware monitor software works with it,
  • You need to take control of the folder as admin if you want access to the files
  • Mouse software which lets you create custom binds for each game doesn't work
  • Say bye to using sweetfx and mods
  • Since no fps/hardware monitor software works, this means overlays meaning no Steam Controller since you can't use Big Picture Mode
Continue saying that Linux will never become a gaming OS. Look at what future Windows gaming has. Microsoft will find a way to impose this, you know they will.
Click to expand...

TPU needs to update the article to remove SLI/Crossfire.

Also, if MS doesn't actually fix the App store issues it won't gain traction with the core PC gaming market. On top of that, Microsoft cannot make Windows a closed platform (which they would have to do to force gaming to go through the App store) without killing Windows. MS has issues, but I prefer to be realistic with my concerns. My saying Linux isn't going to become a gaming OS has nothing to do with what I want, it's simply the way things are. Vulkan isn't going to be this miracle API that people are hyping it up to be. I'd love there to be some serious competition between DirectX and Vulkan, but I just don't see it happening. It would be great to see Linux be an actual threat, but it's not going to happen.
 
Iceberg Mays said:
Thank you. If people jump ship to another OS where are they going? Apple? because they have been doing this for years. Linux? plz, switch OS just to play games? and then go through the hoops to ensure that it plays well on it? I am more than sure MS will still allow steam and EA acces on their OS. They didnt cut EA access from their console unlike sony who didnt even entertain it.
Click to expand...

Windows 7 will work perfectly fine as a stopgap until Vulkan picks up more steam and becomes the industry standard API. Because at the rate Windows 10 uptake continues to slow down month over month, it'll be a decade before it catches up to 7.
 
LOL@Sweeney/Epic..
Ironic coming from them given at one point they (Epic) enjoyed for the better part of a decade a near monopoly in the available game engine on the market.
While UWP does currently have quite a few drawbacks, let's not all forget how awful Steam/Origin etc were in their 1st iterations as well.
many of the so called "limits" (a couple mentioned multiple times) are due to either vendor/developer short comings, particularly with regard to DX12 ("No fps/hardware monitor software", "Mouse software ..", "sweetfx and mods")..
 
Derangel said:
TPU needs to update the article to remove SLI/Crossfire.

Also, if MS doesn't actually fix the App store issues it won't gain traction with the core PC gaming market. On top of that, Microsoft cannot make Windows a closed platform (which they would have to do to force gaming to go through the App store) without killing Windows. MS has issues, but I prefer to be realistic with my concerns. My saying Linux isn't going to become a gaming OS has nothing to do with what I want, it's simply the way things are. Vulkan isn't going to be this miracle API that people are hyping it up to be. I'd love there to be some serious competition between DirectX and Vulkan, but I just don't see it happening. It would be great to see Linux be an actual threat, but it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

I don't see where anyone's called it a miracle API. And it doesn't need to be a miracle to be successful, it just has to be adopted. All the big 3D engines are going to be supporting it, there's a lot of buzz since unlike DX12, it is not locked down to one version of one OS.
 
Iceberg Mays said:
The new xbox is doing better than the old xbox (360) at this point. You really cant say its not so great because of how the ps4 has been selling like hotcakes. Not to start a console war, but their online services and ecosystem is very dependable.
Click to expand...
Pics or it didn't happen. Cause so far the PS4 is selling 50% better than the XB1 according to everyone. And PC game sales are higher than on the XB1, by a lot. Wonder why Microsoft is merging the PC with XB1?

Semantics said:
Ubuntu sends your amazon dash data for money last time i checked and barely supporting GPUs to sometimes eventually run AAA games hardly counts as "games", last time i checked even iD doesn't publish to linux the proponents of openGL
Click to expand...
Ubuntu's spy feature can be turned off and proven, unlike Windows which turning it off is just a placebo. Also, why Ubuntu? Just use Mint, which is just Ubuntu + Cinnamon UI. Or use Fedora, Manjaro, Debian. Linux has choices, which is actually good cause when one distro does something unwanted you just use the other distro. As far as GPU support and OpenGL, as long as you're using Nvidia or AMD drivers then you have full OpenGL. The open source drivers are not there yet, which you can't say for Windows.

 
DPI said:
I don't see where anyone's called it a miracle API. And it doesn't need to be a miracle to be successful, it just has to be adopted. All the big 3D engines are going to be supporting it, there's a lot of buzz since unlike DX12, it is not locked down to one version of one OS.
Click to expand...

Saying it's going to become the industry standard API is the same thing as saying it's a miracle API. No games use it and it just got released, yet people have been saying it will "take over" PC gaming since it was announced. It's ridiculous.
 
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