Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code, but Can’t

Megalith

Megalith

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Should the government pay for veterans to attend code schools? Some veterans think that the GI Bill, which provides educational assistance for attending college and certain training programs, should be revised to include more coding schools. There are reportedly nine schools that do accept the benefits provided by this bill, but many who want to go to a coding bootcamp are out of luck.

…after he left the army in 2013, Molina and his family moved back to his native Oregon. As he weighed his options, he decided that a code school was his best bet to keep learning. He needed an immersive program, but on a faster timeline than college could offer — he had a wife and three daughters to support. But he couldn’t afford the programs on his own, and the military didn’t recognize code schools as legitimate enterprises. “I could not use my GI Bill to go to code school. That was the number one roadblock,” Molina says.
 
So... do what I did. Work 40+ hour weeks while getting a Software Engineering degree.

There are places that do have "fast track" programs besides coding schools.
 
Not saying it can't be done, but most coders have been at it in one form or another since middle school and earlier. Writing code for a living requires an oddball mindset that many might find difficult to adjust to at an 'advanced' age (mid-late 20's, early 30's). Still, it ought to be their own choice what vets use their benefits for. I suspect that the success rate will be low, but that's not for the VA to decide.
 
Living in the information age, being able to learn to program is free with all the online stuff out there. If you really want to learn how to code you need to press into it. They way the government has been lately about coding, they're acting like it's for everybody. I'm a Vet, The last 2 yrs I've been pressing into the cisco certs. 2018 will be my year to learn to code but I'm mostly going to learn from the free sites out there. No need to pay for outdated college education unless your planning on pursuing a government job as a civilian. Anyways don't most coders need to build a portfolio of programs they've created?
 
Are they basically saying "We can do coding, but we can't do a bachelor of computer science"? because that sounds incredibly stupid IMO.

Personally, I don't even want to make this a GI Bill issue. I would prefer if the government themselves offered classes to any and all current soldiers to learn if they wish.
 
Thought hell would freeze over before I'd be defending any government policy BUT...

Some of these education rules are there to protect veterans from fly by night education outfits (of which there are many). Would need more information about the rules and restrictions before throwing in behind allowing this.

CPT, US Army (RET)
 
EchoWars said:
Not saying it can't be done, but most coders have been at it in one form or another since middle school and earlier. Writing code for a living requires an oddball mindset that many might find difficult to adjust to at an 'advanced' age (mid-late 20's, early 30's). Still, it ought to be their own choice what vets use their benefits for. I suspect that the success rate will be low, but that's not for the VA to decide.
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I agree, its harder and harder to teach an old dog new tricks. Just as a kid can pickup a new language in a matter of months, whereas an average adult will always sound like a retard with butchered pronunciation no matter how many years they dedicate, its one of those things that is best picked up young.

I see far too many 30+ year olds thinking that "something with computers" should be really easy to get into and is lucrative, and that's just not the case. Most of the time they will end up making a lot more money and be far more talented continuing in ta trajectory somewhat along what they were doing, getting into logistics, management, pilot, FBI, police, security, or something that they have at least a little experience with.
 
I'm a little mixed on this one also.

1. there are some shady education places. trying to vet them all, or a large number would be costly.

2. I agree coding isn't for everyone, but I picked it up around age 35. Got a job, moved through ranks to Sr dev in just a few years. I don't claim to be the best, but I picked it up well enough.
 
Disclaimer: I work at a University, though not as a Professor (I'm the IT support guy for the CIS Department).

Colleges often have a bunch of stuff you don't care about and don't need. They think this makes you more well-rounded as a person and student and is a traditional sort of thing, particularly in a Liberal Arts college. While something like Philosophy can be a very valuable course, it can also be a stupid check-box on your path to doing what you really want to do. It depends on the Professor you get and how you approach it. There's benefits and minuses to the approach, that's the nature of the system.

What colleges DO have that you should care about is accreditation. The better ones will have not only accreditation for the campus as a whole, but individual accreditation for the individual Departments. For example, Computer Science degrees can be accredited by ABET (and I have no idea off the top of my head what the acronym is for). The agency ensures that your CS degree includes so many hours of advanced math (and required courses), programming, problem solving, team projects, etc. If you get a degree from a College that has this accreditation, you know that the degree is going to actually cover stuff that is considered "optimal" in some fashion.

If you go to a code school or other dedicated facility, you get zero quality control. It's on you to ensure that the program offers you material that is useful and that it will give you a credential that will be respected in the labor force. While this is fine for some people, for other's it can be a nightmare. I don't have any issue with this approach, per se, but it's the Wild West of education when you go this route. Choose wisely or else....

College isn't for everyone, but as long as you pick a reputable place, you get a pretty defined product for your time and money. If you choose a different educational route, then it's buyer beware. I want to help vets as much as the next person, but I'm not sure as to the wisdom of allowing them to step into the world of non-accredited education and hoping for the best.
 
5icko said:
Thought hell would freeze over before I'd be defending any government policy BUT...

Some of these education rules are there to protect veterans from fly by night education outfits (of which there are many). Would need more information about the rules and restrictions before throwing in behind allowing this.

CPT, US Army (RET)
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I completely agree. Too many veterans have been used by for-profit universities and given useless degrees.

A coding school sounds great but if you don't look into what you want to do before moving to a place far from one... then that's on you. Verify the institution you want to go to is covered before moving somewhere and then finding out that you cannot use your GI Bill.

SSG, US Army (Still in)
 
This is a stretch for GI Bill. The classes should be from accredited schools. Community colleges or tech schools would work.

BUT, the VA (and university/college in general) is too restrictive on which classes to take and what grade you have to get. I gave up on the GI Bill before I used all of it. Didn't feel like fighting the system and going to school at the same time.
 
The GI Bill needs to be expanded.

I mean it's great and all that they'll pay to go to community college and universities.

But if you want to go to specialized schools to learn a trade or something, you're essentially fucked. "No you cannot have the educational funding we promised you."

It's the same for similar programs like the Illinois Veteran educational benefits.

So I can go to university and major in Transsexual Lesbian Dance Theory and be even less employable than a grade school dropout. And the government will give me money for that shit.

Or I can pay through the nose for a trade school that will give me near-instant, high paying employment and a career path for the rest of my life. And the government tells me to fuck off. And that stands even if I was in the military as an MOS that practiced that trade!

I swear to fucking God, this country needs a good violent revolt where every public servant above the level of Cop, Fireman or City Dog Catcher winds up on the gallows or in front of a firing squad.
 
cyclone3d said:
So... do what I did. Work 40+ hour weeks while getting a Software Engineering degree.

There are places that do have "fast track" programs besides coding schools.
Click to expand...

You're missing the entire point of what the article is indicating. The veterans want to learn to code but don't have the initial aptitude for it. They grew up in broken single parent homes and had to deal a piss poor inner city public education that failed them and not their middle class counterparts. Not to mention they live in an environment where many learning wasn't apart of their daily grind. I wouldn't be surprised the PTSD these poor bastards have to deal with on a daily basis is also contributing to David Molina's inability to learn to code as he so eloquently put it, "It just didn't click."

What I'm trying to say my friend, not everyone growing up wanted to be a software engineer, otherwise they probably wouldn't have joined the service in the first place. And not to sound partisan, but it's true, it's thanks to the Republicans who blocked every measure to invest more funds into Veterans education and mental health. Otherwise we wouldn't be hearing stories about veterans having to wait 200+ days to see a therapist or psychiatrist. I empathize completely with David Molina and others like him.
 
Paladin21 said:
Computer Science degrees can be accredited by ABET (and I have no idea off the top of my head what the acronym is for).
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Not that anyone really cares, but it's the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology.
http://www.abet.org/

Watched them go through the process of accrediting a local junior college years ago, and it was apparently quite the ordeal (as it should be, for it to mean something).
 
Ski said:
You're missing the entire point of what the article is indicating. The veterans want to learn to code but don't have the initial aptitude for it. They grew up in broken single parent homes and had to deal a piss poor inner city public education that failed them and not their middle class counterparts. Not to mention they live in an environment where many learning wasn't apart of their daily grind. I wouldn't be surprised the PTSD these poor bastards have to deal with on a daily basis is also contributing to David Molina's inability to learn to code as he so eloquently put it, "It just didn't click."

What I'm trying to say my friend, not everyone growing up wanted to be a software engineer, otherwise they probably wouldn't have joined the service in the first place. And not to sound partisan, but it's true, it's thanks to the Republicans who blocked every measure to invest more funds into Veterans education and mental health. Otherwise we wouldn't be hearing stories about veterans having to wait 200+ days to see a therapist or psychiatrist. I empathize completely with David Molina and others like him.
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From the article
But he couldn’t afford the programs on his own, and the military didn’t recognize code schools as legitimate enterprises.
Click to expand...
“I could not use my GI Bill to go to code school. That was the number one roadblock,”
Click to expand...

Funny, you almost had me... cause i was about to jump your shit... and i do not do that. Its Monday :)
As a veteran, i can say with experience the GI-bill needs to be expanded. This will also help when it comes to recruiting, being able to pursue a career in programing/IT/computer science and other non trade skills using the GI-Bill is a great incentive.
 
cyclone3d said:
So... do what I did. Work 40+ hour weeks while getting a Software Engineering degree.

There are places that do have "fast track" programs besides coding schools.
Click to expand...
The program in general is another discussion. But subsidizing someone to get an art history or gender studies degree while not subsidizing a likely much cheaper training program which will fill a real need in the economy is stupid.
 
Just give them a tax credit up to X dollars in order to pay to learn. Whatever they don't spend they can keep. If a guy can learn python by doing youtube classes or a $10 udemy class, why should he get less benefit than a guy who wants to go to USC or Stanford and pay $30,000 a year in tuition? I think we should do whatever we have to, in order to make sure our veterans have what they need.
 
Seventyfive said:
Just give them a tax credit up to X dollars in order to pay to learn. Whatever they don't spend they can keep. If a guy can learn python by doing youtube classes or a $10 udemy class, why should he get less benefit than a guy who wants to go to USC or Stanford and pay $30,000 a year in tuition? I think we should do whatever we have to, in order to make sure our veterans have what they need.
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No, giving money filly-nilly is not good. Just looking at the for-profit colleges shows how much we waste.
 
I've got a revised thread title.

"Thousands of veterans want to learn code but can't. For Free."


If they want to learn code, they will.
 
Hi All

They should be able to use their GI bill at State colleges to accomplish this
 
Of course they could go to a state college, they all accept GI bill funding. It probably isn't convenient for them schedule-wise, and it will certainly take a lot longer than a cram-school approach. That's what they are upset about, they want to do stuff when they want to do it and move into a job ASAP. Whether it's a good idea to cater to that or not is a whole separate question. I think all the non-accredited schools should have to get some accreditation before qualifying to receive government funds (and they pay for the assessment, to prevent everyone from repeatedly submitting an application and hoping to get a slacker for their auditor). It doesn't have to be the traditional Higher Learning Commission or whatever that a college would get, but they need some oversight to make sure they aren't a certificate mill that passes out worthless paper in exchange for cash.
 
You don't need school to learn how to code.


You need a free computer from goodwill and a free internet connection at a local library.
 
jtm55 said:
Hi All

They should be able to use their GI bill at State colleges to accomplish this
Click to expand...

These are "for profit" schools that have no accreditation or standards and charge MORE than private accredited institution.

Sorry, but i'd prefer my tax dollars not wasted on scams like these.
 
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