This is Why We Can't Have Nice Games

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Microsoft is finally shutting down Xbox 360 production after being for sale for over a decade. It is crap like this that is holding back the gaming industry in terms of moving graphics and technology forward. Good riddance shitbox.

Xbox 360 means a lot to everyone in Microsoft. And while we’ve had an amazing run, the realities of manufacturing a product over a decade old are starting to creep up on us. Which is why we have made the decision to stop manufacturing new Xbox 360 consoles. We will continue to sell existing inventory of Xbox 360 consoles, with availability varying by country.
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What??????? What is wrong with a good console with a ton of good games for a cheap price? Yeah they may not look great anymore, but they are still fun. Plus, I don't think the Xbox 360 is holding back graphics tech either since besides a few Microsoft published games nothing new has come out on it for awhile. Not to mention one of the games that was 'Rise of the Tomb Raider' looked and played great on both the 360 and the PC.
 
A lot of damn good games came out on consoles last generation, but it really did last far too long. I get why, the world economy was so shit for much of that time and the demand from developers and customers was so low that there was no point in releasing new systems, but it still overstayed it's welcome.
 
Yar, that generation was definitely long in the tooth. I will give it kudos for introducing one of the best gamepad designs ever (360 gamepad).
 
feel exactly like kyle, but to me it's not just the xbox360 the source of the problem is M$, it's the fact that microsoft is in the console market, as long as they are there, PC gaming will never be able to move of it's own pace, you will always have microsoft hindering API(DX), to keep PC in check and in level with their console.
and for this to stop, you have 2 choices :
-xbox division go belly up and force M$ to leave the console market to nintendo and sony
-alternative API, able to upgrade and add new features on it's own pace, and even then M$ could try something to drive ppl away from it, so preferably an alternative OS with a proper API, my mind goes to linux/vulkan, but that wont happen untill Devs decide to support them
 
The problem isn't the consoles themselves. After all, you don't buy a console if you are concerned with the latest and greatest graphics and technology. The problem is the devs who design for console first then do crappy PC ports. Games should first be made as great as they can be to run on the PC, then dumbed down for the consoles.
 
How much further ahead in graphics would we be without consoles? Take into account the video game industry as a whole would be much smaller without them.

(I'm not arguing against the OP's statement, just interested for more explanation)
 
Wow. News to me. I thought they stopped production 2 years ago when the XBone came out.
 
So this mean no more Xbox of any sort? I'm sort of shocked. They have a very large player base!
 
I personally find that the XBox 360 looks great for what it is. (Especially since it is more than 10 years old. :) ) Consoles do not hold things back, developers do that themselves. Besides, a PC game will end up being made with the lowest common denominator in the PC world anyways just to get the most number of sales.
 
I had no idea that the 360 was still in production. Why? It doesn't make much sense.
 
Sad news, I recently just bought a new xbox 360, I use them as windows media center extenders to watch cable on, they work great for that and I don't have to pay for a dvr on all my tvs. The new ones are actually silent too compared to my first gen which is like watching the tv while some is vacuuming.
 
I bought one about 7 years ago for my kids. The Kinect was kind of cool, although it struggled with my children. Still not a bad console. (No comparison to PCs of course).
Hell, the Xbone shouldn't be compared to PCs either - the GPU is no match for a $150-$200 GPU in a lot of PCs.
 
Wyodiver said:
I had no idea that the 360 was still in production. Why? It doesn't make much sense.
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I bought a new one a little over a year ago.

Kids where outgrowing the Wii, and the WiiU was too expensive and mainly just had updates to the older games they already had.
Xbox 1 was to pricey, as were the games.
Xbox 360 was cheap, had a huge selection of games, and there are plenty of cheap used games.
Plus, the Xbox 360 could be used as an extender with my HTPC (Media Center), saving me the cost of a cable box. (unlike the Xbone)
 
Wyodiver said:
I had no idea that the 360 was still in production. Why? It doesn't make much sense.
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over 40,000 of the things were sold just last month. There's plenty of fun to be had there, still.
And it's nice not having to install and patch every game before you get to play.
 
There are some nice games to be had on the 360. Heck, I always gamed on the PC, but had bought a Star Wars 360 console for the kids from Criagslist. We haven't had played most of the games the guy gave me, but I recently bought Red Dead Redemption for it and have been enjoying it. The graphics on that game are just fine to me *shrug*. The game isn't quite what everyone went on about I think though as it's a little repetitive, but, overall, it's a nice looking game on the 360.
 
Ordeith said:
over 40,000 of the things were sold just last month. There's plenty of fun to be had there, still.
And it's nice not having to install and patch every game before you get to play.
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nutso and Ordeith: Very good points. I didn't really think about the much lower price point, amount of available games, etc.
 
How can you all say the graphics are ok looking? compare GTA V on the 360 to a vanilla version on the pc or ever the xb1 version. The 360 version looks terrible, the only people that say the graphics are ok are ones that haven't really experience anything better than that. Im sure if i showed my grandma a ps2 game she would think the graphics are amazing because she doesnt know any better. The 360 looks like shit, low resolution and most games capped at 30 fps. Glad that turd dead officially dead.
 
Shmee said:
What??????? What is wrong with a good console with a ton of good games for a cheap price? Yeah they may not look great anymore, but they are still fun. Plus, I don't think the Xbox 360 is holding back graphics tech either since besides a few Microsoft published games nothing new has come out on it for awhile. Not to mention one of the games that was 'Rise of the Tomb Raider' looked and played great on both the 360 and the PC.
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With that logic, Nintendo should go back to producing NES and SNES. Not that I would be opposed to that.
 
How big is the market of people who play past systems? I think that's the real question. Microsoft will invest money in projects that generate most returns, it seems the 360 stopped being a good investment. They don't care about you or me.
 
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doz said:
With that logic, Nintendo should go back to producing NES and SNES. Not that I would be opposed to that.
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I would buy one, and if they did, I don't think it would be holding computer games back at all.
 
I never owned a Xbox anything or even played a game on one. I still have my 60gb PS3 though that I got during its launch. I haven't even plugged that in for the last 2 years. I think I only ever bought 5 games for it and I used it for a Blu-ray player for most of its life. I know that both of the controllers won't hold a charge anymore. I'm not really a console gamer and would much rather use the PC for gaming.
 
I always struggled with consoles esp when the game is on PC. I can have a console that is more or less a screw driver. It does one task well. Or, I can have a rolling tool box (pc) and have many tools in one chassis. I have a 360 that sits in a box and collects dust, very little play time.
 
doz said:
With that logic, Nintendo should go back to producing NES and SNES. Not that I would be opposed to that.
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The Japanese market loves older Nintendo hardware. The NES and SNES were actually produced in Japan until 2003, and they offered to repair the NES until 2007 when the replacement parts became scarce. Conveniently, that was about the time the Virtual Console came out on the Wii.

Americans as whole respect newer, faster, and better above all else, no exceptions. We're comparatively unsentimental with an "out with the old, in with the new" mentality as a culture. A console is usually discontinued within a couple years after something better comes out. It isn't that way everywhere, though.

To be honest, I still really only buy Nintendo consoles. Most of the games worth playing on other platforms also come out for PC, but Nintendo doesn't release their games on PC, and they often involve unusual peripherals like the Wii remote or Wii U Gamepad.
 
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ManofGod said:
I personally find that the XBox 360 looks great for what it is. (Especially since it is more than 10 years old. :) ) Consoles do not hold things back, developers do that themselves. Besides, a PC game will end up being made with the lowest common denominator in the PC world anyways just to get the most number of sales.
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While I think it's less of a problem now, consoles absolutely did hold back graphics on the PC. Yes, PCs have a lowest common denominator too, but they SCALE. PC-exclusive games tend to be highly flexible, looking almost like N64 games on minimum settings with bleeding edge on maximum. When the lead skew is a console, that maximum gets ratched way the hell down. You can see this in alpha footage from games like the original Bioshock, Far Cry 3, Alan Wake, etc.. The preview builds on the PC all looked way better, then once it came out on console, the only improvements on the PC side were just a higher resolution.

Shmee said:
What??????? What is wrong with a good console with a ton of good games for a cheap price? Yeah they may not look great anymore, but they are still fun. Plus, I don't think the Xbox 360 is holding back graphics tech either since besides a few Microsoft published games nothing new has come out on it for awhile.
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I agree, I don't think the xbox 360 is holding graphics back now either, I think it only held it back for about 6 years.
 
nvgrim said:
How can you all say the graphics are ok looking? compare GTA V on the 360 to a vanilla version on the pc or ever the xb1 version. The 360 version looks terrible, the only people that say the graphics are ok are ones that haven't really experience anything better than that. Im sure if i showed my grandma a ps2 game she would think the graphics are amazing because she doesnt know any better. The 360 looks like shit, low resolution and most games capped at 30 fps. Glad that turd dead officially dead.
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Or folks are not graphics whores who pause the game and stare at it all day? Even Crysis 3 looks good on the 360 for what it is. (Surprised they where able to get it on the 360 at all.)
 
tetris42 said:
While I think it's less of a problem now, consoles absolutely did hold back graphics on the PC. Yes, PCs have a lowest common denominator too, but they SCALE. PC-exclusive games tend to be highly flexible, looking almost like N64 games on minimum settings with bleeding edge on maximum. When the lead skew is a console, that maximum gets ratched way the hell down. You can see this in alpha footage from games like the original Bioshock, Far Cry 3, Alan Wake, etc.. The preview builds on the PC all looked way better, then once it came out on console, the only improvements on the PC side were just a higher resolution.

I agree, I don't think the xbox 360 is holding graphics back now either, I think it only held it back for about 6 years.
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Experimental shaders, uncompressed textures, optimized for previews etc. early builds are NEVER indicative of a final release. This was not the case in the "past" and most certainly is not the case now, but people behave like "omg holy shit it's the consoles' fault derp".
Not even Crysis lived up to the graphical fidelity shown in previews, and that was a PC "exclusive", the same is true of STALKER and any number of PC releases - go back and compare previews/alpha builds vs the final games.

And can you imagine releasing a game like Crysis today - where 75% of the users will bitch and moan their PC can't handle the game at "normal" settings? With today's whiny-entitled gamer attitude and armchair-devs...."unoptimized! gameworks! gimme 144 FPS on my 5 year old machine pls at ultra!"
 
munkle said:
Sad news, I recently just bought a new xbox 360, I use them as windows media center extenders to watch cable on, they work great for that and I don't have to pay for a dvr on all my tvs. The new ones are actually silent too compared to my first gen which is like watching the tv while some is vacuuming.
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Question about that. Do you need any XBL live subscription (Silver or Gold) to use it as an extender? I've been kicking around picking one up myself to use an extender and maybe grab a copy of forza or something. I'd imagine if production is stopping we should see some 360s go on clearance in stores.
 
bman212121 said:
Question about that. Do you need any XBL live subscription (Silver or Gold) to use it as an extender? I've been kicking around picking one up myself to use an extender and maybe grab a copy of forza or something. I'd imagine if production is stopping we should see some 360s go on clearance in stores.
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Interested in this as well.
 
The PS3 however, remains relevant. I don't think the old generations are holding anything back. The NEW generation is holding EVERYTHING back. IT sucks.
 
ManofGod said:
Even Crysis 3 looks good on the 360 for what it is.
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This is such a dumb statement that people keep saying, yeah and halo 2 looked good on the og xbox at its time. Thats like saying a turbcharged geo metro is cool for what it is, its still a turd no matter how much you try to polish it.
 
nvgrim said:
This is such a dumb statement that people keep saying, yeah and halo 2 looked good on the og xbox at its time. Thats like saying a turbcharged geo metro is cool for what it is, its still a turd no matter how much you try to polish it.
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Says the person who cannot see past his.......... You must think it is dumb everyone does not run 980 Ti's too, right? :rolleyes: Guess I get to enjoy things on my 360, Xbox One, Original, 4k gaming PC and even my work computer. ( R9 380 4G in my work computer.) Limit yourself if you want but cut the crap, you have no idea what you are saying.
 
ManofGod said:
Says the person who cannot see past his.......... You must think it is dumb everyone does not run 980 Ti's too, right? :rolleyes: Guess I get to enjoy things on my 360, Xbox One, Original, 4k gaming PC and even my work computer. ( R9 380 4G in my work computer.) Limit yourself if you want but cut the crap, you have no idea what you are saying.
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No, my pc is more than capable of playing the latest games just fine. Now if i was running multiple 1440p monitors then sure id probably sli. Dont really see what youre getting at though. The games looked ok at the time but they are shit compared to whats out today. How can a game that has major pop in and slow downs with tons of aliasing be fun and look good? Yeah old 8-bit and 16-bit games were fun and still are enjoyable but thats a whole different art style. Look at FF7 on ps1, it looks like total ass compared to FF on ps2 but even that looks like ass compared to newer games.
 
schoolslave said:
Experimental shaders, uncompressed textures, optimized for previews etc. early builds are NEVER indicative of a final release. This was not the case in the "past" and most certainly is not the case now, but people behave like "omg holy shit it's the consoles' fault derp".
Not even Crysis lived up to the graphical fidelity shown in previews, and that was a PC "exclusive", the same is true of STALKER and any number of PC releases - go back and compare previews/alpha builds vs the final games.
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No, I'm talking about huge things, I'm thinking of Far Cry 3 in particular:



They literally took out about half the foliage. Far Cry 1 (which was originally a PC exclusive) had more foliage than the final version of 3. The point is PC exclusives tend to be massively scalable. It's better now, but during the x360 era, developers would aim for them as the lead skew and you would have muddy textures on the PC that were simply getting behind the curve as far as what the average system could do.

There are other indicators too. Crysis was originally a PC exclusive and was so far ahead of the curve, it still looks good today. From Crysis until maybe Battlefield 3 in 2011 (which made the PC its lead skew), NO game came close to looking as good as it did. I mean hell, even Crysis 2 (on launch) looked WORSE than Crysis 1, and what do you know? It was a multiplatform title. Supreme Commander 2 was another example where the original PC-exclusive looked better, but the multiplatform sequel looked worse. Normally game sequels don't look WORSE than the predecessor. That's where the consoles came in.

Don't get me wrong, I think games look great now and we're actually hitting above our weight a little bit (the same game at 30fps at 900p on a console takes a hell of a lot more power at 60fps at 4k on a PC), but they really did hold back graphics some in the past.

With today's whiny-entitled gamer attitude and armchair-devs...."unoptimized! gameworks! gimme 144 FPS on my 5 year old machine pls at ultra!"
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Okay, calm down there hoss.
 
Graphics one the Xbox 360 are still surprisingly good. I use mine quite often.
 
I use my 360 to play my HD-DVD's and play Rockband, but I haven't powered it up in over a year now,
 
Staples said:
Graphics one the Xbox 360 are still surprisingly good. I use mine quite often.
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Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Also, if you are anything like me, you do not turn on your computer, your 360 and then sit there comparing them side by side. You enjoy the platform you are playing on for what it is, not what it is not.


Zepher said:
I use my 360 to play my HD-DVD's and play Rockband, but I haven't powered it up in over a year now,
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Well, if you have XBox Gold, you have been missing out on all the free games every month.
 
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