This card is Audigy2 AND Revo ownage!

L

lilpoopypants

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
229
Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1

Theres CPU utilization benchmarks there as well as many reviews to read. Some are better than others but the message is clear.
Creative has failed to stifle all competition.

But they are trying, they bought the rights to Sensaura recently.

This is my next soundcard.
 
Seems like a decent performer.....

I'd have to wonder about future compatibility though....the nice thing about Creative is that most game's 'standardize' around Creative's cards.
 
CPU usage will still be higher than the A2 with 3D sound APIs, since the ENVY24HT is not capable of the required DSP routines in hardware.

It does display slightly lower CPU usage numbers than the REVO, and is about the same as the Terratec Space.
It also appears to have a coaxial digital input, which is nice.

For people connecting directly to HT systems, the REVO apparently has better bass management, since the Prodigy has a set crossover frequency.

I quite like this particular statement in the review:
it's impossible to catch the difference with inexpensive PC speakers. Unfortunately, quality of even expensive miniature PC acoustic systems priced at around $400 doesn't match modern sound cards priced at $150. If you prefer high-quality sound, forget about PC speakers and consider pro-audio acoustics or brand-name magnetically shielded consumer electronic speakers.
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People still don't get it, and routinely spend $100 on speakers and $100 on a sound card.

I'd have to wonder about future compatibility though....the nice thing about Creative is that most game's 'standardize' around Creative's cards.
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DirectSound is not unique or diagnostic to or better supported by Creative. Future compatibility is therefore not an issue at all unless EAX(3 or better) is the only sound mode supported by a game, which is something I've never seen.
EAX most certainly is better supported by Creative., since this type of card only supports up to EAX 2.
edited to add last paragraph
 
Well it doesn´t come close to the Audigy as an all around or gaming card though. It do get beaten performance wise in games.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
Future compatibility is therefore not an issue at all unless EAX(3 or better) is the only sound mode supported by a game, which is something I've never seen.
EAX most certainly is better supported by Creative., since this type of card only supports up to EAX 2.
edited to add last paragraph
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Actually, I need to clarify what I meant by "Future compatibility".

Sure soundcards support "directX sound standard", but you never know with these smaller companies how their driver support is going to match up with future problems.

EAX wont perform as well anyway, like you pointed out.

Case in point.....GTXP. I loved mine, and it worked great for most stuff, until many newer games came out and the card tended to crackle and draw huge CPU loads for game audio. You couldnt enjoy many of the 3d features like EAX, because the drivers were kinda outdated and I had issues with several games that I was playing.

Support emails to Hercules were ignored, and they havent updated drivers since last february.

At least with creative you know that if the game supported EAX, odds are that creative would fix any driver issues that it had with the particular game.
 
If you want to talk about driver support I dont know how you can possibly mention Creative in the same sentence..

this card looks like it has PLENTY of great driver support. Judging from the hardware specs it has much better drivers than any of the Audigys or Revo.
Look at the CPU utilization. With Revo soundquality and 'close enough' FPS to the audigys... why buy either?

In my opinion, hardware acceleration means nothing and will mean nothing in the future, that is near certain. Hardware sound acceleration is a thing of the past when CPUs were strained.
So buying a card on that aspect is futile.

I buy sound cards to increase SOUND QUALITY, I buy a better CPU and GPU for more FPS, at higher res (anything above 800x600), I would like to see a SIGNIFICANT drop on a modern system (2GHZ+) if not even less than that.

As far as 'standardization', Creative says all we need is DS3D for positional support... so it appears MS does more standardization than Creative.
Innovation is not Creatives strong point. Marchitechure is.
 
Originally posted by lilpoopypants
If you want to talk about driver support I dont know how you can possibly mention Creative in the same sentence..

this card looks like it has PLENTY of great driver support. Judging from the hardware specs it has much better drivers than any of the Audigys or Revo.
Look at the CPU utilization. With Revo soundquality and 'close enough' FPS to the audigys... why buy either?

In my opinion, hardware acceleration means nothing and will mean nothing in the future, that is near certain. Hardware sound acceleration is a thing of the past when CPUs were strained.
So buying a card on that aspect is futile.

I buy sound cards to increase SOUND QUALITY, I buy a better CPU and GPU for more FPS, at higher res (anything above 800x600), I would like to see a SIGNIFICANT drop on a modern system (2GHZ+) if not even less than that.

As far as 'standardization', Creative says all we need is DS3D for positional support... so it appears MS does more standardization than Creative.
Innovation is not Creatives strong point. Marchitechure is.
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It's interesting you mention "ownage" when you've NEVER even heard the card let alone taking only the words of a review. I personally only let my own 2 ears be the judge of what sounds good and what doesn't. If in my lifetime I bought amps, preamps, D/A converters, CD players, or speakers off of words printed in a review I'd be one sorry consumer. I use reviews as a guideline not as a bible.
 
Originally posted by X86Dude
Words to live by. :)
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But that kind of expensive don´t it? Not many companies let you borrow computer products like soundcards. Install and test them and then send them back for free if you don´t like it.
 
Using those reviews as a 'guideline', this card looks like it OWNS.

Besides that the DACs are comparable to the Revos, which sounds good right... and the VIA chip is the same one... and the drivers are better.... what else do you need to know.

You people act like its going to sound WORSE than the Revo, though if you read the specs its certainly comparable.

Thats a pessimistic view. And thats fine, I read the reviews and I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

I hope you thoroughly took a scientific, time consuming, indepth analysis of the Fortissimo, Terratec, Audigy2ZS, and Revo before you decided on your card if you are going to make statements such as yours.
Oh, and all your stereo equipment too.

Reviews can be taken as the bible on a product when everyone is saying the same thing about it (praise).

Or instead of taking a bunch of experts who HAVE tried every card IN-DEPTH, we can take the opinion of one guy who heard a card or two (probably not even in a controlled environment such as using the same speakers)... his ears "liked" one and then hes a fanboy...
rrrriiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhhhttttttt.

If I had listened to THAT guy all my life, I'D be the sorry consumer!
 
As far as I'm aware, the Revo doesn't have D/A's. The cpu does all the number crunching, hence the hit on gaming. The Audigy has D/A's that's why the gaming numbers are better. M-Audio's philosophy (not saying it's right) is today's CPU's are powerful enough to have spare clock cycles to process the audio. I love gaming, but I bought the Revo cuz I'm passionate about music and I personally haven't heard a better card. You go ahead and use reviews as your bible. That's a personal choice. I on the other hand will ALWAYS let my ears be mine.:D
Oh yeah. Because someone has a differing opinion than yours on a forum is no reason to act like a chump. Makes you look bad.
 
No, I agree the Revo rocks. And M-Audio is correct.
Hardware acceleration is for kids who think that sound can make your games unplayable and think they need 155fps instead of 150. And thats at a low resolution.

I just like this one because it has that selling point that seems to sway alot of people, has killer drivers and the sound quality (i'm banking on) of the Revo.
Hardware acceleration was good back before a mid to low end processor was about 2GHZ.
Though I dont know if lack of acceleration ever ruined or even affected my gaming experience.

I'm one who agrees with the Revos standpoint. I was brought to this realization by Irons82, one of this forums most knowledgable members.

The Revo is the bomb for music, and I dont see any bad qualities in gaming... it relies on pure sound quality to sell itself (not EAX barrel effects or FPS scores), the whole purpose to buying an aftermarket soundcard..

I was saving up for a Revo myself before I found this card.
 
Originally posted by lilpoopypants
No, I agree the Revo rocks. And M-Audio is correct.
Hardware acceleration is for kids who think that sound can make your games unplayable and think they need 155fps instead of 150. And thats at a low resolution.

I just like this one because it has that selling point that seems to sway alot of people, has killer drivers and the sound quality (i'm banking on) of the Revo.
Hardware acceleration was good back before a mid to low end processor was about 2GHZ.
Though I dont know if lack of acceleration ever ruined or even affected my gaming experience.

I'm one who agrees with the Revos standpoint. I was brought to this realization by Irons82, one of this forums most knowledgable members.

The Revo is the bomb for music, and I dont see any bad qualities in gaming... it relies on pure sound quality to sell itself (not EAX barrel effects or FPS scores), the whole purpose to buying an aftermarket soundcard..

I was saving up for a Revo myself before I found this card.
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What people seem to forget is that sound acceleration actually enhances the sound quality in game :rolleyes:

Sure you can run in software but if that kills your framerate what do you end up doing? Lower the sound quality or graphics settings.
 
Originally posted by nullvector
Case in point.....GTXP. I loved mine, and it worked great for most stuff, until many newer games came out and the card tended to crackle and draw huge CPU loads for game audio. You couldnt enjoy many of the 3d features like EAX, because the drivers were kinda outdated and I had issues with several games that I was playing.
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mine is fine :confused:
 
Originally posted by zachary80
mine is fine :confused:
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I compared FPS between GTXP and Audigy2ZS on Call of Duty, SplinterCell, NFS:U, KOTOR, and URU.

Huge difference in FPS for me. Something like 10-15 in some places when EAX is enabled.

EAX disabled, difference came down to about 5-7 fps.

Quality with ZS was also much better. Uru sounds amazing with this card, and a set of 5.1's
 
Originally posted by nullvector
I compared FPS between GTXP and Audigy2ZS on Call of Duty, SplinterCell, NFS:U, KOTOR, and URU.

Huge difference in FPS for me. Something like 10-15 in some places when EAX is enabled.

EAX disabled, difference came down to about 5-7 fps.

Quality with ZS was also much better. Uru sounds amazing with this card, and a set of 5.1's
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I thought it was effecting your gameplay. Take away 10-15 FPS (I havn't measure because I havn't noticed) from 100 and I can't tell the difference.
 
This is not directed towards your GTXP/Audigy2ZS comparison (though the GTXP is considerably older....) but heres why not to buy Creative

I've been trying to get the 'word' out and talking about the PCI bus flooding for years and other 'quirks' but that link has everything in one nice, concise post. :)

edit- should add.. i had most of the cards from Creative between the SB16 - Audigy for at least some time. Was burnt repeatedly from Live-Aud.
Creative makes a decent card, for some. Not for me, no way José
! Their extreme anti-competitive actions (buying everyone up) are getting on my nerves too.. I hope Nvidia (good luck buying them out) socks it to them with the PCIX SoundStorm as VIA has tried with this EnvyHT. I dont like the idea that using the Audigy2 drivers on the A1 can improve sound quality quite drastically... when they could be giving that to us odviously.

For me, they are out of the question.
 
First off, I have an Audigy 2 ZS on 98se and I haven't had any problems with it with the VXD drivers.

Secondly, your link only talks about the live and audigy: most people buying creative now will be buying an Audigy 2 or better.
 
Originally posted by lilpoopypants
I hope Nvidia (good luck buying them out) socks it to them with the PCIX SoundStorm as VIA has tried with this EnvyHT. I dont like the idea that using the Audigy2 drivers on the A1 can improve sound quality quite drastically... when they could be giving that to us odviously.

For me, they are out of the question.
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socks it to em using creative technology! Creative bought sensura, the company that did the stuff for nvidia, m-audio, via, etc.

EXCELLENT business move on their part considering how much it cost em.
 
As far as I'm aware, the Revo doesn't have D/A's. The cpu does all the number crunching, hence the hit on gaming. The Audigy has D/A's that's why the gaming numbers are better
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You're confusing DSP with DAC, which is understandable, all the acronyms about are confusing.

Every sound card has D/A converters, because it must at some point convert the digital signal into something analog that you can hear.

Not every sound card has a Digital Signal Processor which can apply realtime effects to digital sound streams coming from the computer. Instead such cards do this in software.
It's not a big deal unless your game is CPU limited to the point that reducing frame rates will drop minimum FPS' below a specific threshold (about 30 FPS).

socks it to em using creative technology! Creative bought sensura, the company that did the stuff for nvidia, m-audio, via, etc.

EXCELLENT business move on their part considering how much it cost em..
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So you're happy that Creative is stifling competition in the 3D sound marketplace?

If you own lots of stock in Creative I can understand it. Otherwise it makes no sense.

For those of us that dont, this move can only be seen to be an anticompetitive measure taken by Creative in order to crush competition, but not by making a better product. It will result in higher sound card costs all around.
GO CREATIVE! Raise prices all around!
Screw us all over! Good for you!
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
So you're happy that Creative is stifling competition in the 3D sound marketplace?

If you own lots of stock in Creative I can understand it. Otherwise it makes no sense.

For those of us that dont, this move can only be seen to be an anticompetitive measure taken by Creative in order to crush competition, but not by making a better product. It will result in higher sound card costs all around.
GO CREATIVE! Raise prices all around!
Screw us all over! Good for you!
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well i didnt own any stock before they bought em but i sure do now :D (and im up a dollar to boot!)

and the price thing i dont fully get considering for the past 3 cards the newer has been cheaper then the previous one. the ZS for example was $100 retail compared to the Audigy 2's $120. but eh i can kinda see an old aol type thing starting to happen
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
You're confusing DSP with DAC, which is understandable, all the acronyms about are confusing.

Every sound card has D/A converters, because it must at some point convert the digital signal into something analog that you can hear.

Not every sound card has a Digital Signal Processor which can apply realtime effects to digital sound streams coming from the computer. Instead such cards do this in software.
It's not a big deal unless your game is CPU limited to the point that reducing frame rates will drop minimum FPS' below a specific threshold (about 30 FPS).
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. It's the onboard DSP's that help framerates isn't it?
 
Originally posted by lilpoopypants
Creative makes a decent card, for some. Not for me, no way José
! Their extreme anti-competitive actions (buying everyone up) are getting on my nerves too..
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You do run Windows....right? Last time I checked MS was kind of anti-competitive too.

You can be free to choose whatever product you want to buy, but dont say that something is "total ownage" after reading a few reviews....and admitting that you like this card because of "its selling point".

Thats falling for marketing...
 
It's the onboard DSP's that help framerates isn't it?
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Precisely.
Last time I checked MS was kind of anti-competitive too.
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You are correct.
Is it your contention that because MS engages in strong anticompetitive behavior that we should all jump for joy when hardware manufacturers do the same thing?
well i didnt own any stock before they bought em but i sure do now
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I am Shocked, Shocked I say to discover this potential conflict of interest in one of computer audios most prolific posters!
:D
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
I am Shocked, Shocked I say to discover this potential conflict of interest in one of computer audios most prolific posters!
:D
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I own AMD stock
 
Originally posted by nullvector
You do run Windows....right? Last time I checked MS was kind of anti-competitive too.

You can be free to choose whatever product you want to buy, but dont say that something is "total ownage" after reading a few reviews....and admitting that you like this card because of "its selling point".

Thats falling for marketing...
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I think that leukotriene already stated what I wouldve said about your MS comment.

I admitted the hardware acceleration is ONLY a selling point, and I LIKE it because we finally have a card that have no percieved disadvantages to the Audigys.
Am I getting one because of this selling point? No.

A "few" reviews LOL.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
You are correct.
Is it your contention that because MS engages in strong anticompetitive behavior that we should all jump for joy when hardware manufacturers do the same thing?
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I think you were in left field when my point flew by, you misunderstood my argument completely.

I was explaining my belief that alot of people like to 'hate' creative because they are popular. Much like people hate microsoft.

Seemed like Mr. Poopy's hate of Creative was driving him to another product, and he was justifying that by saying their anti-competitive motions were "getting on his nerves"

I approached it from the standpoint that if he hated Creative for that reason, how can he justify using Windows?

This probably isnt the forum to argue about that anyway. Just wanted to clear up where I was coming from. I'm in no way a creative nut, in fact, I couldnt care less about what brand I have on my card, as long as it sounds good and plays games well, and has good Linux support (which creative products, for the most part, do).
 
Um, dude.. Poopy has had MANY problems for the last 3 years with his creative cards. Did you read that link I posted to winamps site? Yeah.. I had most all of those problems with both my Lives and Audigy. Hardware and driver problems.
Ive probably been using SBs longer than you have... from the SB16 to Audigy personally and i have them ALL still.
The anticompetitive thing is just simply getting old.... they bought out Aureal and now Sensaura.
Are they a brilliant marketing company? Yeah.
Are they a excellent sound card company? No.

Marketing is what Creative is KNOWN for... I've never heard anyone say that Creative is innovative... or breaks new ground.. have you?
They really arent dominating as they should considering how small they've created the market if you really think about it.

People are just dying for any alternative all over the place and for good reason. They are decent for kids with games but there are tons of audiphile quality/professional cards available that are better.
 
The Audigy still doesn't sound as good as the Revo. Try them both... you'll see.

BTW, it's nice to see you two express your points of view while still respecting eachother. There's far too little of that around the [H]. Hats off to you both *tip*
 
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