Thinking about dumping SLI...

U

undertheradar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
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Okay, I am running dual 8800GTS 512's in SLI on an AMDx2 6400. I am not totally impressed with the performance... might be better with a nicer CPU, but with my 590SLI board... thats how it goes. Now, I was thinking of holding out until the AM3 and socket 1366 boards come out, but in the meantime, I could do a little upgrading I suppose....:D

Anyways, once I get a new board & CPU, Im thinking Im going to dump SLI. Since I dont intend on running a top of the line CPU (Ive always shot for middle of the road), and nVidia chipsets are looking less and less worth it, among other things...

So Im wondering, if I go the 'one powerful GPU route' rather than SLI:

Would a geforce 280 or ATI 4870x2 outperform a pair of 8800GTS 512's in SLI? I havent seen any direct comparisons between the 280/4870x2 and the 8-series, only 9's, so Im guessing I should look at the 9800GX2 (dual 8800GTS 512's should come out just above)as the closest comparison, or maybe 9800GTX's in SLI...

I was thinking, if I go 4870x2, just about which ever mobo I pick will most likely support crossfire, so worst case, I add another 4870x2... but Im really trying to stay away from the whole dual card thing... its a PITA when it comes to selling them off to upgrade to the next card...lol.
 
u could always wait for the gtx 280 gx2 *whatever the name will be i forget* if u have the money to spend

or just go with the ati's card but the prices are still dropping
 
if you want same performance or better in some cases grab a cheap 9800gx2 for under $250 now, i am very happy with mine. if you want more power you can step up to the gtx 280 rev 2 or whatever its gonna be called. I can say this though this card is better than 4850 CF in some things and that was faster than my gts g92 sli on 680i all setups i have played with extensively, its like not even having sli even though techincally to the driver it is.
 
undertheradar said:
Okay, I am running dual 8800GTS 512's in SLI on an AMDx2 6400. I am not totally impressed with the performance... might be better with a nicer CPU, but with my 590SLI board... thats how it goes. Now, I was thinking of holding out until the AM3 and socket 1366 boards come out, but in the meantime, I could do a little upgrading I suppose....:D

Anyways, once I get a new board & CPU, Im thinking Im going to dump SLI. Since I dont intend on running a top of the line CPU (Ive always shot for middle of the road), and nVidia chipsets are looking less and less worth it, among other things...

So Im wondering, if I go the 'one powerful GPU route' rather than SLI:

Would a geforce 280 or ATI 4870x2 outperform a pair of 8800GTS 512's in SLI? I havent seen any direct comparisons between the 280/4870x2 and the 8-series, only 9's, so Im guessing I should look at the 9800GX2 (dual 8800GTS 512's should come out just above)as the closest comparison, or maybe 9800GTX's in SLI...

I was thinking, if I go 4870x2, just about which ever mobo I pick will most likely support crossfire, so worst case, I add another 4870x2... but Im really trying to stay away from the whole dual card thing... its a PITA when it comes to selling them off to upgrade to the next card...lol.
Click to expand...


Im in the same boat as you, its either get another 8800gt for SLI or a single card for performance,

I do want to upgrade my cpu/mobo/ram, but not sure if i should, but 1 thing I remember Kyle saying (i think) something about you would be better off upgrading your GPU over a CPU right now.

I mean I have my 6400+ BE at 3.5ghz, I know it does just fine for 1920X1200.

But anyway yea Im thinkin about either going with a 4870, or a 280 GTX (evga of course for stepup).

anyway just my .02c specially since im in the same position as you
 
CPU might help... my single 8800GTS was pushing my Opty 165 @ 2700MHZ to 94%-98% of CPU. With 2 cards CPU would have been the bottleneck.
 
DUMP, DUMP, DUMP....X2 IS DOPE....or any 2, 1 gig cards in XF....YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
According to most reviews I see, the 8800GTS 512 SLI setup alone should be slightly better than the 9800GX2, yet not quite as good as 9800GTX's in SLI... so right in between there somewhere... which is a very narrow amount because in some cases the 9800GTXsli and 9800GX2's will perform exactly the same.

My concern though is MY setup might not be so hot for that though. I dont know by how much, but Im guessing that on my 590a chipset (Asus M2N32-SLId mobo) with an AMD x2 6400+, well, sli might not be scaling to the ideals that are shown above. Maybe someone here could give me an idea of how much performance Im losing from those restrictions... but perhaps with those restrictions, dual 8800GTS 512's arent as hot as in some of the reviews shown above. Either way, I suppose just about any mobo I would buy with an intel x or spider platform would support crossfire, so at the worst, if I go with a 4870x2, and its worse, I could just add another. Or, I could wait for the 280x2... hmmm....

I suppose, my decision might just come down to figuring out how well/unwell MY setup scales up the SLI.

Where do I get the benchmarking software to get a frame speed rating for CoD4, UT3, TF2, etc??? I have those games... I could just see for myself I suppose. I would say 3Dmark06, but I know those results are skewed. I did them already, and got something like a 14,000 I think (have to double check)... but those numbers dont mean much compared to real gaming performance... I know.
 
People really need to say what size resolution they are playing games on. Resolution makes a huge difference in what card you really NEED to get.
 
Well, my combo is good enough, but just barely, for 1600x1200. It depends on the game, if its more taxing, then I back down to 1280x1024 (and then SLI is even more useless).

Seriously, I think I should be looking at using some software to determine 2 things: 1. where I am at right now. 2. how well SLI scales for me on my system (run w/ one card, then both).
 
undertheradar said:
Well, my combo is good enough, but just barely, for 1600x1200. It depends on the game, if its more taxing, then I back down to 1280x1024 (and then SLI is even more useless).

Seriously, I think I should be looking at using some software to determine 2 things: 1. where I am at right now. 2. how well SLI scales for me on my system (run w/ one card, then both).
Click to expand...

If you are only running games at 1600x1200 SLI is useless for you. I wouldn't even bother upgrading at all. Hell at 1600x1200 one of your 8800GTS 512MB cards is enough.
 
I'd agree with Dan_D...

If you're running 4:3 aspect (and a CRT?) you have absolutely
no real need for multiple cards... In fact, it probably gives you
less "real world" performance in most games than a single
card... The ONLY place you'll see improvment is in synthetic
benches (3DMark)...

The only place multiple cards help is if you're running 24"
or larger LCD widescreens... THEN multiple cards start
to make a difference.in games...

Put your money somewhere else... ;)

Edit:
I run a 4:3 aspect CRT... Just for reference, here's what I'm
going to do for an upgrade:

>790GX / SB750 MB
>2x2GB DDR800 (add to my 2x1GB for 6GB total)
>HD4870 (Waiting for better non-reference design)
>Run my 6400+ x2 until 45nm quads mature a bit
and then make a CPU upgrade

Then just hang there until AM3 and DDR3 mature
and come down in price...

If in the mean time I should (for one reason or another)
get a large widescreen LCD, THEN I would be thinking
x2 (dual GPU) or Crossfire... ;)
 
Dan_D said:
If you are only running games at 1600x1200 SLI is useless for you. I wouldn't even bother upgrading at all. Hell at 1600x1200 one of your 8800GTS 512MB cards is enough.
Click to expand...

I don't understand at all. I have 2 GTS 512s on a 780i with a E8400. I havn't even bothered to OC anything because I'm 100% satisfied with my preformance. And I run at 1920x1200.
 
undertheradar said:
Well, my combo is good enough, but just barely, for 1600x1200. It depends on the game, if its more taxing, then I back down to 1280x1024 (and then SLI is even more useless).

Seriously, I think I should be looking at using some software to determine 2 things: 1. where I am at right now. 2. how well SLI scales for me on my system (run w/ one card, then both).
Click to expand...

Man I run at 1920X1200, and Im having no issues running COD4 with 4xAA and 16xAF (on a 8800GT KO EVGA)

hell even Grid is playable with 4xAA and 16xAF.

Now Crysis and AOC is another story, but totally playable.

but since your at 1600X1200 and have SLI, basically you have an overkill for that res.

Upgrading would be a waste of money for you IMO. unless you want to go Single card...thats another story
 
vengence said:
I don't understand at all. I have 2 GTS 512s on a 780i with a E8400. I havn't even bothered to OC anything because I'm 100% satisfied with my preformance. And I run at 1920x1200.
Click to expand...

What's not to understand. The 8800GTS 512MB is overkill for every game out there with the exception of Crysis and MAYBE Age of Conan at 1600x1200. You are running at 1920x1200 where SLI is actually of some use.
 
vengence said:
I don't understand at all. I have 2 GTS 512s on a 780i with a E8400. I havn't even bothered to OC anything because I'm 100% satisfied with my preformance. And I run at 1920x1200.
Click to expand...

You're running a 16:10 aspect ratio (widescreen)

1600:1200 is 4:3 aspect ratio (non-widescreen)

For non-widscreen aspect ratios (and especially CRT monitors) there
is absolutely no need for Crossfire/SLI or AA/AF as you can up the
resolution and thereby change the physical size of your pixels...

LCD's have a "Fixed" pixel size because they are a physical diode
and you need lots of AA/AF to eliminate the "Jaggies"... You also
have MORE pixels to render because of the widescreen aspect
ratio (16:10)...

Unless the OP is planning on going with a 24" or larger "Widescreen
LCD" he has no need of multiple cards and may even LOSE some
performance because of it... ;)
 
wizzard0003 said:
Unless the OP is planning on going with a 24" or larger "Widescreen
LCD" he has no need of multiple cards and may even LOSE some
performance because of it... ;)
Click to expand...

Right. There is still quite a bit of overhead in mutli-GPU systems for running in SLI or Crossfire mode.
 
Your CPU is the problem, you need to go with a core 2 quad or a core 2 duo @ atleast 3.2ghz, a core 2 quad 4ghz is a bottlneck for most high end SLI gpu's
 
Dan_D said:
What's not to understand. The 8800GTS 512MB is overkill for every game out there with the exception of Crysis and MAYBE Age of Conan at 1600x1200. You are running at 1920x1200 where SLI is actually of some use.
Click to expand...

I broke my own cardnial rule. "Pronouns are not your friend". :(


I was trying to say, I've got the same setup and I find it more than enough preformance. Infact I've got the upgrade itch, AND I won some money on poker a week ago, and I still can't convince my self the need to go out and blow it on graphics cards.
 
Although your system is not top of the line, it is pretty solid. Two 8800 GTS in SLI is nothing to scoff at. It is in the same league as a 9800 GX2 or two 9800 GTX in SLI. It's more than capable. I would not feel the need to upgrade that hardware. Yes, the CPU is a tad dated, but it is still a very good choice and sufficient for gaming. If I were you, I would wait at least another year before thinking about upgrading.

If your gaming experience is up to par, then there's no reason to upgrade. Looking at your hardware, I'm certain everything is running pretty stout.
 
mbmadness said:
Although your system is not top of the line, it is pretty solid. Two 8800 GTS in SLI is nothing to scoff at. It is in the same league as a 9800 GX2 or two 9800 GTX in SLI. It's more than capable. I would not feel the need to upgrade that hardware. Yes, the CPU is a tad dated, but it is still a very good choice and sufficient for gaming. If I were you, I would wait at least another year before thinking about upgrading.

If your gaming experience is up to par, then there's no reason to upgrade. Looking at your hardware, I'm certain everything is running pretty stout.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Some games scale better than others, but there is no need to upgrade anything on your rig. You are going to spend a lot of money for minimal performance gains over what you have now.
 
Well, when running both 8800GTS 512's and the 6400, the framerates do dip below 60fps at 1600x1200, and yes, Im sure its because of the CPU, but more on that later as to my motivation for dumping SLI as well. I know the CPU might be my biggest bottleneck, so thats why I am asking the question here... more tailored to my specific situation, you know? Would putting a 4870x2 (or a 280x2 if it arrives, or a 280) on a 6400 be just as bad of a bottleneck, because it sure seems like the 8800GTS's are bottlenecked since SLI is so CPU limited.

Seriously, I should do some of my own benching and see... anyone know where/how I can run those framrate programs for CoD4 and the like? Then I can post some data. I know I could google it, but I thought I would ask here for any suggestions.

My motivation is that I sorta do want to get rid of the dual 8800GTS 512 setup for a few reasons: 1. I know its overkill and for gaming I would rather keep the CRT's for gaming until OLEDs or something better than LCD's comes out, but I really dont think the single 8800GTS 512 is keeping up (most likely CPU limited) My framerates do tend to 'pit' at certain points when playing with the single 8800GTS 512. 2. its a PITA to sell SLI cards... you have to sell two cards, and try to do it at the same time since many others dont have SLI.... which leads into another thing: Is is just me, or have 8800GTS 512's retained their value very well it seems? I could almost sell my two 8800's and for an extra $100 get the gtx280. Not to mention my M2N32SLI board seems like its retaining value rather well too. But 3, I know I have hit a wall with the CPU. I am reluctant to upgrade because I would really need a new mobo, so for the reasons cited in my sig I dont want to, but Im considering when the time comes, chances are that Im not going to have SLI again, in which case, I might want to cash my cards in now while they are still worth something and move to a single card. I just dont see myself forking over for SLI on the next board, so I might as well ditch the dual cards while I can. If SLI was as common as crossfire, or if my setup even warranted it, I might be singing a different tune. As it is, I think ATI has done a much better job at getting crossfire into other chipsets (duh), and the cost increase for a rare SLI board is making it less and less worth it. And my hope now would be that by moving to a single more powerful card, that I would actually see a huge jump in performance considering the 6400/590 chipset might be choking the potential of a SLI setup anyways (or its complete overkill).

So now you get my reasoning? My 6400 is a bottleneck of sorts... I know. I will most likely NOT be using SLI on the next setup, but whatever I get now most likely would carry over. So wouldnt a non-sli'd single card not be as bottlenecked?
 
undertheradar said:
Well, when running both 8800GTS 512's and the 6400, the framerates do dip below 60fps at 1600x1200, and yes, Im sure its because of the CPU, but more on that later as to my motivation for dumping SLI as well. I know the CPU might be my biggest bottleneck, so thats why I am asking the question here... more tailored to my specific situation, you know? Would putting a 4870x2 (or a 280x2 if it arrives, or a 280) on a 6400 be just as bad of a bottleneck, because it sure seems like the 8800GTS's are bottlenecked since SLI is so CPU limited.

Seriously, I should do some of my own benching and see... anyone know where/how I can run those framrate programs for CoD4 and the like? Then I can post some data. I know I could google it, but I thought I would ask here for any suggestions.

My motivation is that I sorta do want to get rid of the dual 8800GTS 512 setup for a few reasons: 1. I know its overkill and for gaming I would rather keep the CRT's for gaming until OLEDs or something better than LCD's comes out, but I really dont think the single 8800GTS 512 is keeping up (most likely CPU limited) My framerates do tend to 'pit' at certain points when playing with the single 8800GTS 512. 2. its a PITA to sell SLI cards... you have to sell two cards, and try to do it at the same time since many others dont have SLI.... which leads into another thing: Is is just me, or have 8800GTS 512's retained their value very well it seems? I could almost sell my two 8800's and for an extra $100 get the gtx280. Not to mention my M2N32SLI board seems like its retaining value rather well too. But 3, I know I have hit a wall with the CPU. I am reluctant to upgrade because I would really need a new mobo, so for the reasons cited in my sig I dont want to, but Im considering when the time comes, chances are that Im not going to have SLI again, in which case, I might want to cash my cards in now while they are still worth something and move to a single card. I just dont see myself forking over for SLI on the next board, so I might as well ditch the dual cards while I can. If SLI was as common as crossfire, or if my setup even warranted it, I might be singing a different tune. As it is, I think ATI has done a much better job at getting crossfire into other chipsets (duh), and the cost increase for a rare SLI board is making it less and less worth it. And my hope now would be that by moving to a single more powerful card, that I would actually see a huge jump in performance considering the 6400/590 chipset might be choking the potential of a SLI setup anyways (or its complete overkill).

So now you get my reasoning? My 6400 is a bottleneck of sorts... I know. I will most likely NOT be using SLI on the next setup, but whatever I get now most likely would carry over. So wouldnt a non-sli'd single card not be as bottlenecked?
Click to expand...

I dunno man, I have the exact same proc as you, and I run at 1920X1200, and with COD4, I dip down to the 40's during big fire fights, but usually it stays at 60, and thats with a single 8800gt KO.

If you are dipping below 60fps and you have SLI, that tells me something is wrong period.

To me a 6400 is more then enough for 1600X1200, now at 1920X1200 im sure my CPU is holding me back.

But hey it sounds like you wanna upgrade :) just do it man, I planned on sept 12th to either get a 280 GTX (evga of course so I can step up later) or a 4870 :) i got about 3 weeks of deciding.....
 
Back in the day, 2 cheaper cards in SLI < 1 good card. But I've seen benchmarks of 9800GTX+ SLI > GTX 280, which is cheaper with the SLI setup.

I think if your buying a new card though, to just get 1. SLI, really, is for people who have the best card available, and still don't get the performance they want. The situation I gave an example of, I think is just an exception to the rule because of pricing right now. Generally speaking, 1 good card is the way to go.
 
Okay, I used FRAPS, and even with it running in the background during CoD4, I suppose my thoughts about the framerate dipping below 60 are unfounded. Must just be simptoms of whatever server I am on, because I was capped out at 91 (the max) the whole time, with all the settings maxed out.

Maybe Ill try Crysis or something else more intense later (Crysis isnt a benchmark though so much IMO as much as a waste of code space). Does anyone have a suggestion as to what game I might want to load and get a framerate on? I have just about everything... UT3, Bioshock, SupCom, etc.

Now Ill have to disable SLI/Force Alternate Frame Rendering 2 and see what I get with just one card at 1600x1200. Maybe Ill just sell one card and call it a day.
 
undertheradar said:
Okay, I used FRAPS, and even with it running in the background during CoD4, I suppose my thoughts about the framerate dipping below 60 are unfounded. Must just be simptoms of whatever server I am on, because I was capped out at 91 (the max) the whole time, with all the settings maxed out.

Maybe Ill try Crysis or something else more intense later (Crysis isnt a benchmark though so much IMO as much as a waste of code space). Does anyone have a suggestion as to what game I might want to load and get a framerate on? I have just about everything... UT3, Bioshock, SupCom, etc.

Now Ill have to disable SLI/Force Alternate Frame Rendering 2 and see what I get with just one card at 1600x1200. Maybe Ill just sell one card and call it a day.
Click to expand...

FYI, 91 is not the max. com_maxfps 250 is the max under default punkbuster settings. (you can set it to 999, but PB will kick you.)
 
Ya an upgrade would be a complete waste, even if its a hobby, its hard to justify the extra expense considering your rig is pretty damn solid as it is. Id save the money and use it for when nehalem is out in full force. As for dual v. single....single is fine, but dual is always nice just to have incase you decide to buy a second of your existing card for a boost once the price falls. You could spend money on a nice screen...say 24 or 26" if ya got the cash
 
vengence.... thats why I said 'the max'... I know what you mean though. I didnt see a point in uncapping it though.

So, when this next board/proc comes out... chances are that it wont be SLI, so dual my dial 8800's are a waste then... thats my whole point: they (SLI) are good for now, but soon they wont be, so I might as well upgrade now. At the time when I got them, going SLI was the best bet (being that I got them both for less money than a GTX or ultra). As it turns out, a single 8800 GTS 512 almost doesnt keep up on my system. It does dip into the 40's for seconds at a time, which I can notice... so using just one 8800GTS 512 may not be an 'easy way out' when it comes time to upgrade the mobo/proc later this year.

As for a 24" or 26" screen.... well, I do have a Samsung 24" 245B, but I wouldnt use it for gaming except for RTS's maybe. I really cant stand LCD's for gaming.... and unless you know of a 'true' 24-26" flatscreen CRT out there... Im not changing the monitors any time soon.
 
undertheradar said:
vengence.... thats why I said 'the max'... I know what you mean though. I didnt see a point in uncapping it though.
Click to expand...

ok, just making sure. I play at with it set to 85. I've screwed around with it higher, just for shits and giggles and to stare at 400fps while staring at a wall, but that gets old in 5 mins so I set it back to 85 and watch my temps:D drop.
 
ROFL... now thats something I had not considered... the extra heat that all those extra frames could produce... never thought of that, but I suppose, it is likely.

So have I qualified my question better now? Many here are telling me that 'Im just fine as it is', and I agree, but thats not my objective. My objective is to eliminate SLI so that the next board I have, which will likely not have SLI, can run whatever I use now. So Im not looking for an upgrade so much as a single-slot solution that allows me to replave both of the 8800GTS 512's and keep the performance.

Maybe Ill just put my dual 8800GTS 512's up for sale (and that old 7900GTX) and let that determine my course of action. If someone buys them, then Ill just take the money and get a 4870x2 or 280. If nobody buys them for what I want, then I suppose Ill be holding onto them until the next mobo/cpu I get... the 'free market' decision making process...lol.
 
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