Thinking about ditching my SB X-FI Gamer

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robothunter

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
369
I think I really hate this thing. I bought the SB X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series because I thought it would give me better sound in games and a couple of more FPS by taking some of the workload off my CPU. The first thing that really pissed me off was the complete lack of compatibility with my cases front audio connectors. I have a CM Cosmos which comes with an Intel connector and HD audio connector. Neither will fit and Creative doesn't make an adapter for it. So I go out and buy a set of Logitech G51 speakers. The volume control module has built in head phone jacks so those connect to the back of the card and I'm good.

So now I try and hook up my speakers and realize that the Speakers have front center and rear plugs and the SB only has front and rear. So I get no center channel which is ridiculous. It's a 7.1 surround sound card and I can't even get 5.1 out of it. So if you actually want 7.1 or 5.1 you have to buy a digital flexi-jack. They don't include it. Even if they did; it does me no good because my new speakers don't have a digital input.

So I just hook it up as 4.1 and go on with my day. But does it sound better? I can't even tell. It sounds the same as my old computer to me, except for all the random crackling noises when I start certain games.

So now I'm thinking, my e8400 really isn't taxed at all while playing games anyway. Why not just use my on board sound. Would it even make a difference in frame rate? Don't all new games do EAX in software if you don't have it in hardware? I would have a center speaker, front audio ports and no crazy driver issues. It would really piss me off to just leave a $150 sound card sitting in my closet, but if I get a better game play experience, How can I leave it in?

Are their benefits I'm missing? Does anyone have any solutions to my problems? Should I keep it or dump it?
 
robothunter said:
The first thing that really pissed me off was the complete lack of compatibility with my cases front audio connectors. I have a CM Cosmos which comes with an Intel connector and HD audio connector.
Click to expand...

This is a known deficiency with most of the soundblaster X-Fi cards. The newer version of the XtremeGamer (half height one) and OEM versions of the older one have a normal internal audio header.

You really should have done some research before buying the card.

robothunter said:
So now I try and hook up my speakers and realize that the Speakers have front center and rear plugs and the SB only has front and rear. So I get no center channel which is ridiculous. It's a 7.1 surround sound card and I can't even get 5.1 out of it.
Click to expand...

The bottom most jack on the card outputs the center channel and the sub.
Here's a link to the overclockersclub review with a picture of what's supposed to connected to the bottom-most jack: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sbxfi/images/10.htm

So did you read the manual (albeit soft-copy on disc) or go through the installation process on the provided discs?
 
creaaaaaaaaaaative sucks, it really, really does....

somebody STOP ME!!!

lol

Yeah man. The reason why I gave up on soundcards and surround sound entirely is crap like this.

What I did, (and sorry to those who hate me now after reading this 8 million times, forgive me please)

Bought a usb to digital converter. Trends Audio or um what is the other one hager? Anyway, plug that in to a receiver like the Sherwood 6500 and a decent cheap 2.1 REAL stereo not a pc setup and voila!

I got a pair of av123 550MKII rockets and a Sherwood 6500 receiver ($120 shipped! best deal going.) I still need a sub but get great response down to 40hz atm. Sound is OMFG good.
 
bbf said:
This is a known deficiency with most of the soundblaster X-Fi cards. The newer version of the XtremeGamer (half height one) and OEM versions of the older one have a normal internal audio header.

You really should have done some research before buying the card.
Click to expand...

Theres actually a way to get front-panel functionality using the proprietary I/O port on the Audigy and X-Fi cards. I first discovered this reading an issue of Maximum PC (as much as it sucks).

http://www.x-tap.com/ <-- This site sells the adapter for it.
 
Thanks for the replies. I originally plugged my center channel into that last plug and got no sound. I checked the manual online but had to pull it up through the FAQ section on their web site. It must have been for a different card. The center channel works now so maybe I didn't have it pushed in all the way when I originally tried it.

Thanks for the link for the third party adapter but $33.99 for a cable that should go for $7.00 max is just not right. I should have done more research before buying. I guess I just took too much for granted on something as simple as a sound card. Thanks.
 
spaceman said:
creaaaaaaaaaaative sucks, it really, really does....

somebody STOP ME!!!

lol

Yeah man. The reason why I gave up on soundcards and surround sound entirely is crap like this.

What I did, (and sorry to those who hate me now after reading this 8 million times, forgive me please)

Bought a usb to digital converter. Trends Audio or um what is the other one hager? Anyway, plug that in to a receiver like the Sherwood 6500 and a decent cheap 2.1 REAL stereo not a pc setup and voila!

I got a pair of av123 550MKII rockets and a Sherwood 6500 receiver ($120 shipped! best deal going.) I still need a sub but get great response down to 40hz atm. Sound is OMFG good.
Click to expand...
Spaceman - You mean this little thing? http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/USB_Audio_desc.htm
I'm looking to dump my SB X-Fi Gamer, too. I love my speakers and receiver (in sig), but the X-Fi is definitely the weak link in my audio.
 
Yup. The Trends does the trick. Stereo only. Well, that includes 2.1 of course but yeah. I use win amp with the ogg vorbis plug in for music. Rip cds in realtime, bit perfect. Sound is acceptable. Beats an x-fi down at least.
 
spaceman said:
creaaaaaaaaaaative sucks, it really, really does....

Bought a usb to digital converter. Trends Audio or um what is the other one hager? Anyway, plug that in to a receiver like the Sherwood 6500 and a decent cheap 2.1 REAL stereo not a pc setup and voila!
Click to expand...

We get the point that you hate creative.

Although you are correct that your suggestion would be better for somebody who wants to listen to 2 channel music, too bad your reply is completely useless for the OP's questions: robothunter WANTS TO PLAY GAMES... so real 4+ channel support gives a much more immersive and positional audio advantage... 2.1, even at super high quality, just doesn't cut it.
 
spaceman said:
Yup. The Trends does the trick. Stereo only. Well, that includes 2.1 of course but yeah. I use win amp with the ogg vorbis plug in for music. Rip cds in realtime, bit perfect. Sound is acceptable. Beats an x-fi down at least.
Click to expand...
Stereo/2.1 only? Damn, that won't work for me.
 
bbf said:
2.1, even at super high quality, just doesn't cut it.
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It does if you have a card that can competently simulate positional audio with only two channels.

That aside, the more important question is: you bought the new sound card because you thought it would make things sound better, or you bought the new sound card because you didn't like the way it sounded with your onboard audio?

If you liked the onboard audio and didn't have any problems with it, ditch the X-Fi and go back to that. Don't fix what isn't broken.
 
deruberhanyok said:
It does if you have a card that can competently simulate positional audio with only two channels.
Click to expand...

Put your money where your mouth is and name that card. "Theoretical" cards don't cut it.

Plus it's pretty much impossible with speakers since you have to stay exactly in the correct spot between the speakers defined by the soundcard manufacturer to ensure the imaging even has a chance at working.

Headphones are the only way one could even come close to simulating real 3d positioning with a two channel system.
 
Dunno what sort of "theoretical" cards you're thinking about, but I'd guess you've never used a card with QSound? Judging from your attitude I'll assume not.

Philips had a few sound cards a while back that absolutely smoked anything anyone else had at the time. There were at least three models based on their custom "Thunderbird" DSP, the Acoustic Edge, Seismic Edge and Rhythmic Edge. All of them supported the Qsound positional audio simulation, I think it was just called QSound 3D Interactive.

They're certainly not "theoretical." A lot of people owned them, myself included (I had two of the Acoustic Edge cards). Philips eventually dropped support and if you ask me it was a pretty big loss to the marketplace... all that us consumers got out of it was a few more years of no alternatives to Creative Labs.

If you ever played a game with one of these cards using just stereo speakers you'd have been shocked at how well they simulated positional audio. The "sweet spot" between the speakers was a pretty wide area... and outside of it the effect was still pretty good.

I'm sad that the technology hasn't shown up in modern sound cards. I wouldn't call anything Creative has ever released capable of competently simulating positional audio. Perhaps Asus will do something about that.

I seem to recall reading a while back that Via picked up a license to include QSound in their audio solutions but I don't know that anything has come of it. That's too bad... I'd like to see a resurgence in Envy-based cards, assuming they're working on anything new at all.
 
I was pretty sure you could download Qsound audio package, just like SRS audio package. And run it in software. Not sure how amazing its going to be, but its an option. Also I think Creative's CMSS 3D is really damn good anyway, especially with headphones. There is a setting for speakers too, so you should try that out aswell.
 
qsound on sound cards used (and still uses a 7 yr old version of) sensaura, just like every other non-creative labs card out there. dolby headphone in pc games rides on top of this same 7 yr old sensaura driver. sensaura was bought by creative labs-the end. sensaura was good at the time but sucks badly on newer games.
 
Mystic-Micro said:
I was pretty sure you could download Qsound audio package, just like SRS audio package. And run it in software. Not sure how amazing its going to be, but its an option. Also I think Creative's CMSS 3D is really damn good anyway, especially with headphones. There is a setting for speakers too, so you should try that out aswell.
Click to expand...

Really? I've tried CMSS 3D and I can't really perceive a difference on my speakers or headphones. I think it adds some kind of 'echo' to everything, but nothing like pseudo 3 dimensional sound.

But then it could be that my headphones or headphone port aren't that good.
 
phide said:
Where did you hear this?
Click to expand...

that should read 'all eax pc games'. every non-cl card uses the audio3d.dll -or a version of it-sensaura file -for eax/ds3d processing. dolby takes the eax 3d streams and puts out dolby headphone. i actually saw this on a xonar press release. i have a razer ac-1 alongside my x-fi so i actually use dolby headphone

for eax games dolby headphone doesnt do crap sound-wise over plain old eax2 cards-the 3d effect is exactly the same. it is better than the x-fi on non eax games that have surround/ team fortress 2 is the non eax game i use this for
 
deruberhanyok said:
Dunno what sort of "theoretical" cards you're thinking about, but I'd guess you've never used a card with QSound? Judging from your attitude I'll assume not.
Click to expand...

Your assumption is incorrect... the negative attitude I have *IS* because I bought a QSound capable sound card when it came out and it DID NOT "completely simulate positional audio" as you claim. It sort-of made things sound like they were somewhere not in front, but the position was not actually locatable... and that was with headhphones.

There really *is* a reason why the Qsound technology didn't take over the world... and it's not only because Creative labs out-marketed it, and the company lorded over it with restrictive licensing, the major reason is because it just didn't live up to it's hype. If it really did work as well as the literature claimed (and that you take as gospel), it would really be in just about everything these days, but wait, it's not... so maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work as advertised. Qsound does make things sound more "surroundish" than plain stereo, but it definitely does/did not provide real-life working positional audio simulation from two channels.... therefore, I would label Qsound as a technology that should "theoretically" be possbile, but in the "real world" doesn't live up to the theoretical claims.

The real-life experience was that qsound sounded best with headphones. With two speakers, you had to be exactly in the same spot to get the correct, vague effect. If you were alot to the left or right, the psuedo-positional effects would just fall apart.
 
bbf said:
If it really did work as well as the literature claimed (and that you take as gospel), it would really be in just about everything these days, but wait, it's not... so maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work as advertised.
Click to expand...

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not taking anything as "gospel," I mentioned above that I owned two of those Philips 706 cards; I used them with 2.1 and 2.0 speakers. My experience was that the effects were fantastic for an area easily as wide as the regular range of my chair in front of my desk. FWIW it was much more pronounced if the speakers were positioned further apart and not both directly in front of me / next to the monitor.

I'm sorry you didn't have as good an experience with it as I did. Which card did you own? It's so rare I run across another owner and you're probably the first I have that didn't completely love it.
 
deruberhanyok said:
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not taking anything as "gospel," I mentioned above that I owned two of those Philips 706 cards; I used them with 2.1 and 2.0 speakers.
Click to expand...

I had a Gravis Ultrasound that supported hardware encoding/decoding of QSound and played with the real-time positional QSound demo (the GUS used to support QSound before QSound sued the pants off of Gravis for releasing their proprietary code in their SDK) and could never really pinpoint the sound in the area the demo showed it to be behind me (It's trivial to do it for the front.) So in the context of the question the OP asked about good sound for GAMES with 2 vs. 4 channels, QSound definitely would not fit the bill, since it really is lacking in real positional accuracy with two speakers. I'm not debating that QSound doesn't make things sound more "surroundy", but in real life it does not simulate sound coming from behind the listener with speakers in front of the listener as it claims to and is not even close to equalling what a 4 channel system can do.

Remember, you were claiming a good 2 channel sound card that could "competently simulate positional audio with only two channels" was a suitable replacement for a real 4.1+ system. I have yet to experience myself or read an independent review from a respected internet review site that stated that QSound could virtually reproduce sounds BEHIND the listener.

With which games did you have success using the virtual 2.0 channel positioning with QSound?

After doing some searching on the internet, the Philips Aurilium PS805 I used to use on my laptop also had QSound technology in its XP drivers. But I never played games with it... I just tried out the fancy sound modes it provided to see if they worked and then promptly never used them again since I don't like pseudo-expansion of my stereo signals.
 
Tech Report's had a sound card roundup many years ago, including the Philips card, that had a writeup on its positional simulation capabilities:

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/3719/13

My experiences with the Acoustic Edge ranged through a lot of titles but I particularly recall Quake 3, Unreal Tournament and Serious Sam as sounding incredible on 2.0/2.1 speakers (my setups at the time being either an set of Labtec powered stereo speakers, I can't recall the model, or a Cambridge Soundworks four point surround set where the rear outputs on the sub had died on me so I only had the front speakers connected).

GUS takes me way further back than the Philips cards, though... I remember reading about them while playing Doom games over direct modem connections. My first sound card was an AWE32. ;)
 
i really dont know what youre talking about. the xfi xtreme gamer does 5.1 very well. i have had 2 different speaker setups ( klipsch pro media 5.1 and the current logitech z5500 and both have no problems with xfi gamer. front/rear/centre/sub. i think you might wanna read the manual. either your speaker plugs arent working well or the card isnt configured right (ie:digital out).
 
Who was that directed at? We've been talking about sound cards simulating surround sound with stereo speakers, not discrete 5.1 setups.
 
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