Thinking about a iMac/Mac Pro

[next-Jin]

I sold my old PC to slim down to a laptop due to living conditions.

That's about to change, as we are moving to a new place. I would get a Mac and PC but I really only want one desktop. I rarely play PC games anymore other than the occasional Blizzard and Valve games. Truthfully waiting on Diablo 3.

Wife and I agree that aesthetically Macs look awesome and uniform. My only concern is upgradability and resell value (if there is no upgradability like iMac). I am also worried about Diablo 3 running on a 2560x1440 monitor with the 5750.

- When does Apple usually update their iMac's GPU's (6750/6770) ?
- What is the learning curve from PC -> Mac
- How well does the iMac play Blizzard/Valve games on the 27" with the 5750 and i5?
- If I could afford either the iMac or Mac Pro which should I go with?
- Why do people usually go with Macs?

 

[Arkangyl]

I believe Apple is usually a 18 month dev cycle, so 18 months from when the current gen of iMacs came out? Realistically the 6-series isn't out yet, really isn't too much more than 'we know it's coming'. I'd say June as a fair guess for when the next-gen will come out.

PC -> Mac... I dunno, I did it and like most [H] I'm pretty well versed in computers, really it's easy-as-hell for basic operations, anything else is a quick google away.

I've heard Blizzard games are great, Steam looks a bit different (OpenGL vs. D3D), and not for the better. Still, so long as you don't super-crank the settings the 5750 trudges along well enough.

iMac vs. Pro... well, Pro is far more powerful & you can upgrade it but it will cost about twice as much to get a Mac Pro with a 27" 1440p screen... If you want to game I'd say get the Pro with the top-end VGA (5870) just so a VGA isn't an issue.

Also with the Pro's: you can do VGA, RAM, HDD, and CPU upgrades yourself, so get a base model and go from there (note: I believe Apple has a single and a dual CPU socket mobo, so don't expect to just drop a 2nd cpu in there, I might be wrong though...)

People go Mac for a variety of reasons IMO:
- to gain exposure / see what they're like / gain knowledge (IT)
- photo / video editing, want the more streamlined apps than what PC offers
- general aesthetics, some people just really, really need the 'mac' look
- 'because it's a mac', just, y'know, hipsters...
- reliability (bullshit IMO, my macbook crashed more than my PC...)
- Unix core without actually having to run Unix

If looks are your main reason though, I'd say get the iMac, the Pro is just gonna look like a PC but cost 4x more... and it doesn't sound like your super-sold on going to Macland (don't get me wrong, I do love Macs, I just know people who were OMFGMAC!!! and then regretted it).

Also: iMac + SFF PC for those non-Mac games, run it thru the Displayport input on the iMac = win!

 

[phide]

When does Apple usually update their iMac's GPU's (6750/6770) ?

Not for another six to ten months, at least.

What is the learning curve from PC -> Mac

Practically flat. You'll use different modifier keys for shortcuts, file management is somewhat different, but there are many more similarities than there are differences. The initial familiarization period takes about thirty minutes.

If I could afford either the iMac or Mac Pro which should I go with?

Always buy the most powerful system you can reasonably afford. But if you have no real need for a workstation-class machine, don't buy a Mac Pro.

Why do people usually go with Macs?

I buy Macs because I don't just want Windows PCs or just Linux PCs. For most people, though, I think it's the software. Software developers tend to pay more attention to designing applications as opposed throwing every feature and function imaginable into everything they produce. There's a greater emphasis on getting rid of, or at least trying to hide as best as possible, unnecessary complexity.

 

[rflcptr]

I buy Macs because I don't just want Windows PCs or just Linux PCs. For most people, though, I think it's the software. Software developers tend to pay more attention to designing applications as opposed throwing every feature and function imaginable into everything they produce. There's a greater emphasis on getting rid of, or at least trying to hide as best as possible, unnecessary complexity.

I agree with this. An application X may have the features of Y + 10, but if they're meaningless and/or get in the way of what actually gets work done, it doesn't exactly help.

 

[Terpfen]

Here's what you can expect when you buy a Mac:

To answer your individual questions:

- When does Apple usually update their iMac's GPU's (6750/6770) ?

Apple selects GPUs based on battery life, TDP, and ambient temperature, not overall power. Before Snow Leopard's release and the development of OpenCL, they lagged far behind the PC market for those reasons. Now they're getting better with GPU selection, and are focusing more development on GPU drivers and improving OS X's OpenGL support, but they're still going to consider power draw and heat as major factors in GPU selection. Yes, even in the iMac. After all, the iMac is a closed aluminum shell.

It's reasonable to assume Apple is done updating its Mac hardware until next year, though. So don't worry too much about GPU selection. It's doubtful they'll even be able to begin installing mobile versions of AMD's 6xxx series before the end of the year, anyway.

- What is the learning curve from PC -> Mac

Moderate. At first you'll feel like everything is reversed, which is true to an extent: window buttons are in the upper left corner, not the upper right; the menu bar is on the top, not the bottom, even though applications are still managed at the bottom of the screen; you click on a button in the upper right corner, not the lower left corner, to access systemwide search; etc, etc. Keyboard shortcuts are also different, as are the keyboards themselves (Command replaces Control, Option replaces Alt).

There's a learning curve, but OS X is made to be easy to pick up. Geeks like us tend to master OS X quickly.

- How well does the iMac play Blizzard/Valve games on the 27" with the 5750 and i5?

Performance is good, but not as good as Windows. If gaming is a big priority, you'll want to use Boot Camp to install Windows and just run your games that way. I have a gaming PC, so the most work my GPU gets is hardware video decoding in MplayerX and running the occasional SNES or PSX emulator.

- If I could afford either the iMac or Mac Pro which should I go with?

That depends. What tasks will you routinely perform? A top of the line iMac is overall better bang for the buck than a Mac Pro, IMO, but it depends on your priorities.

- Why do people usually go with Macs?

Better OS on the whole, better security, better compatibility (the ability to legally boot every major OS, for example), great hardware (Apple's trackpads and the way they interact with apps is by far the best in the industry), balanced design, excellent resale value, and great customer support through Applecare.

 

[pbcustom98]

If you are looking to upgrade everything yourself, I would go for the mac pro. it is much more expensive, but to upgrade an iMac requires you to take the glass panel off the LCD, and remove the LCD just to get into the iMac. The ram is on the bottom of the iMac, so that is easy. I'm just not a fan of messing with the LCD panel.

 

[Ankle]

If you are looking to upgrade everything yourself, I would go for the mac pro. it is much more expensive, but to upgrade an iMac requires you to take the glass panel off the LCD, and remove the LCD just to get into the iMac. The ram is on the bottom of the iMac, so that is easy. I'm just not a fan of messing with the LCD panel.

It's not so bad to service an iMac. The LCD panel is easy to remove after lifting the glass up with two suction cups. The main thing is putting it back together without getting dust under the glass. What I dislike about it is that you have to short the sensor pins to the hard drive if you want to swap it for another brand and the first thing I'd want to do with an iMac is drop a Intel SSD like the x25-m in there. Otherwise the fan just spins at full RPM the entire time. :|

I would go with the iMac over the Mac Pro. For the money you end up spending you could get the 27" iMac and put together a dedicated gaming PC and just hook that up to the iMac's displayport input and use synergy to share the keyboard/mouse.

 

[Monkey God]

I just bought a Macbook pro...the learning curve for someone whose been using windows since 3.0 is pretty steep. The hardware is very nice. However, it has its quirks and annoyances just like windows, and everything is much more controlled. You want to backup to a windows/smb file share? No. The funniest part was setting the Macbook up when I started it for the first time. It wanted me to use the single integrated track pad to click on "Continue" but in order to use the trackpad, you have to be in OSX and configure it....mega lulz. I had to grab a mouse off a windows PC just to get OSX setup for the first time. How ironic?

Hardware++++ (omg its beautiful and SOLIDLY built)
Shiny OS +
weaksauce keyboard -
lame setup quirks -
cant backup to smb file shares -
cost -

Overall I am liking it (as I get used to it), but I never would have bought just it because, needing it for iphone development.

 

[Terpfen]

The funniest part was setting the Macbook up when I started it for the first time. It wanted me to use the single integrated track pad to click on "Continue" but in order to use the trackpad, you have to be in OSX and configure it....mega lulz. I had to grab a mouse off a windows PC just to get OSX setup for the first time. How ironic?

This doesn't make much sense. What was preventing you from using the trackpad during OS X's first setup? It's a gigantic button in addition to a trackpad. You push down to click. Works fine in first setup.

 

[Monkey God]

This doesn't make much sense. What was preventing you from using the trackpad during OS X's first setup? It's a gigantic button in addition to a trackpad. You push down to click. Works fine in first setup.

It wouldn't click. Thats what didn't work. No clicky. Had to set it up once OSX was running.

 

[Dethman]

I have setup many brand new mb pros and have never had to plugin a mouse to set it up, there must have been something wrong

 

[Monkey God]

I have setup many brand new mb pros and have never had to plugin a mouse to set it up, there must have been something wrong

Maybe. I clicked everywhere on that little pad. When I went into setup after OSX was running, left click was disabled.

 

[Terpfen]

I have setup many brand new mb pros and have never had to plugin a mouse to set it up, there must have been something wrong

Same here. That's a very strange problem.

 

[[Classified]]

If you get a Mac, I strongly recommend the new aluminum mac mini. Its only like $600 but its such a step up from the previous version. The new design looks awesome especially with the aluminum. Its also ultra quiet to the point that you don't even know if its on or not. And it doesn't overheat like the previous versions meaning you could leave it on all day and night like I do.

 

[Ankle]

If you get a Mac, I strongly recommend the new aluminum mac mini. Its only like $600 but its such a step up from the previous version. The new design looks awesome especially with the aluminum. Its also ultra quiet to the point that you don't even know if its on or not. And it doesn't overheat like the previous versions meaning you could leave it on all day and night like I do.

The stock hard drive is pretty noisy for a 5400rpm drive. I just got the new mini to retire the MBP and dropped in a x25-m ssd and 8gb of memory and I can't hear the thing at all. The tiny blower fan is surprisingly not loud.

 

[CKMorpheus]

Same here. That's a very strange problem.

My boss just got a new Macbook Pro 15" Core i5, and I had to set it up for him. I found that indeed, the left side of the trackpad would not respond to clicking, while the right side would. It wasn't a bum setting though, the left side just wouldn't respond at all to clicking at all, even after it was set up and even after all updates, permission repairs, etc. I ended up sending it back to Apple and we're awaiting the replacement.

It shouldn't be like that. I've set up at least 20+ Macbook Pro's in the past, and I own my own 15" MBP Core i5, and I know exactly how the trackpad should work, and it wasn't.

 

[Serpico]

If you get a Mac, I strongly recommend the new aluminum mac mini. Its only like $600 but its such a step up from the previous version. The new design looks awesome especially with the aluminum. Its also ultra quiet to the point that you don't even know if its on or not. And it doesn't overheat like the previous versions meaning you could leave it on all day and night like I do.

I'm still considering one for running Plex on, but now I see the Boxee box on the horizon, etc. I'll wait until next year before jumping fully into the HTPC thing.

 

[Serpico]

For a Mac desktop I recommend getting an iMac over a Mac Pro, unless you REALLY need those expensive i7 Xeons in there (99.99999% of people don't).

There are a few things to consider in terms of value. One is the display in the iMac, the other is resale value. The 27" 2560x1440 IPS display that it uses costs $1100 by itself from Dell, $1000 from Apple, and probably $1400 or so when NEC releases theirs. The 27" iMac starts at $1700, and has a silent and fast computer built into it. Not bad.

As far as resale value goes, Macs tend to hold their value really well. I had a 24" iMac from October 2007 through January 2010. I sold it on ebay for $1100, about 60% of what I initially paid for it. I wish I could get the same for my PC parts when I sell them. Given my usual two year upgrade cycle for my Macs and PCs, it works out well for me. The difference with upgrading is that I don't do it piecemeal with the iMac like I do with my PC, I do it all at once. It works out well and is super convenient, I just ship the whole thing in a box, roll the proceeds over to a new iMac, and get a better display, faster internal hardware, better enclosure, etc etc, and its super easy.

I would go with the iMac over the Mac Pro. For the money you end up spending you could get the 27" iMac and put together a dedicated gaming PC and just hook that up to the iMac's displayport input and use synergy to share the keyboard/mouse.

Agreed. I recently plugged my Windows PC into my iMac via target display mode. Let me tell you, Starcraft 2 at 2560x1440 on that insano display is awesome.

 

[badcaps]

The difference with upgrading is that I don't do it piecemeal with the iMac like I do with my PC, I do it all at once. It works out well and is super convenient, I just ship the whole thing in a box, roll the proceeds over to a new iMac, and get a better display, faster internal hardware, better enclosure, etc etc, and its super easy.

Which is to say nothing of the one-click ease of imaging your new mac with your time machine backup and continuing where you left off an hour previous.

 

[blacknwhite85]

I am absolutely thinking of buying it

 

[Ankle]

As far as resale value goes, Macs tend to hold their value really well. I had a 24" iMac from October 2007 through January 2010. I sold it on ebay for $1100, about 60% of what I initially paid for it. I wish I could get the same for my PC parts when I sell them. Given my usual two year upgrade cycle for my Macs and PCs, it works out well for me. The difference with upgrading is that I don't do it piecemeal with the iMac like I do with my PC, I do it all at once. It works out well and is super convenient, I just ship the whole thing in a box, roll the proceeds over to a new iMac, and get a better display, faster internal hardware, better enclosure, etc etc, and its super easy.

Agreed. I recently plugged my Windows PC into my iMac via target display mode. Let me tell you, Starcraft 2 at 2560x1440 on that insano display is awesome.

I just sold my 07 MBP for $1k which after paying about 1.9 or 1.8k for it new? I don't remember. Better than I'm used to from PCs.

How is the 27" iMac for noise? I'm rather obsessed over silencing all my electronics. My mini is great as far as noise goes after swapping the HD for a SSD. With one tiny fan to cool everything I was worried it might even be more annoying than my MBP but what a world of difference for the better. Amusing that it runs cooler even under full load at 1.8k RPM than my MBP with two fans screaming away at 4k RPM.

 

[Zumino Zufeilon]

I don't know about the new iMac's because mine is just before they switched to the aluminum chassis, but I do know that unless I'm loading mine pretty hard, it stays passive. Air intake at the bottom, air exhaust at the top, hot air rises, and it "mostly" passively cools itself.

If I load it (with F@H or if I'm actually pushing it out to full speed) the fan's kick on, but even then it's pretty quiet.

 

[Serpico]

The 24" iMac was near silent, save for a barely perceptible hum. The 27" iMac is dead silent, as in I hear nothing and I feel no hum or vibration in the air.

The only time I heard something out of it is when Flash for some unknown reason spiked CPU usage ridiculously high, then the fans kicked in. I killed Flash and it went down. Its only happened twice in 10 months. It was weird, given that even Starcraft 2 or Half Life 2 Episode 2 didn't do anything crazy like that.

In any case, don't worry about noise, it may be the quietest computer Apple makes.