Think that the huge NV40 power requirments are true?

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blindrocket

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I hate the inquirer.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15210

IN THE NEAR future, we are pretty sure that Nvidia is going to win the graphics crown back from ATI, but not by a huge amount. This will, as usual, last for about two weeks until the next product cycle kicks in, and the brass ring is once again up for grabs. If you think ATI will sit still, think again, it will fight tooth and nail.
Nvidia will win one race hands down, the power race. I am sure you have seen the pictures of the NV40 boards floating around here and there, and saw the two molex connectors sticking off the back. If this didn’t clue you in, let me tell you right out, Nvidia will be unchallenged in the power race.

Not only will the card lie closer to Prescott than Tejas on the power scale, but it will also have some really nasty asterisks after the two molex connectors on the requirements sheet. Those asterisks are the killer.

It seems each of those connectors will need to be plugged into a separate power rail, and nothing else can be plugged into that rail. OK, they will let you put a fan into it, but anything more is strictly forbidden. You can just hear the good folk at Antec doing the happy dance. Power supply upgrade time people.

Now, before you go off and start criticising Nvidia the same way you are rapping Intel, let me say there is a big difference. Intel was bitch-slapped by the press over Prescott because it didn’t perform and it sucked power. The NV40 will, by all accounts, will perform, and perform well. The juice sucking is secondary.

What I mean is that if you deliver, you are effectively dangling a shiny thing in front of the public, and they overlook the occasional wart. Nvidia has a whopper of a shiny thing here, what was that about power again? µ
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They probably are true, due to the fact that they're basing those facts based off of pictures.

Personally, I don't see the point in having 2 connectors, if they're coming from the same rail. This really doesn't have any impact on how much power it can take. All it'll do is clog up more wires inside the case.

Hopefully, it wont be true. But if the performance is good enough, I don't see it being too big of a deterent for me. Just get a big powersupply
 
If NV40 really needs that much extra electricity, why not simply use an external 120V connection with a 120-12V DC transformer ALA Voodoo 5 6000 style?

2 independent rails? Fuck that. My TurboCool 510W is already somewhat stressed with everything inside this system, let alone having to dedicate 2 additional seperate isolated circuits just for the video card.

I can only imagine what someone with a 350W or 400W PSU that's quite loaded would experience by hooking up an NV40 (if this is true).

But it's the Inq-well, so I'll believe it when I see it. :)
 
is an external dc120 connection as "clean" as one from a powersupply?

but im thinking its just a prototype personally
 
Originally posted by SimGuy
If NV40 really needs that much extra electricity, why not simply use an external 120V connection with a 120-12V DC transformer ALA Voodoo 5 6000 style?

2 independent rails? Fuck that. My TurboCool 510W is already somewhat stressed with everything inside this system, let alone having to dedicate 2 additional seperate isolated circuits just for the video card.

I can only imagine what someone with a 350W or 400W PSU that's quite loaded would experience by hooking up an NV40 (if this is true).

But it's the Inq-well, so I'll believe it when I see it. :)
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For one, it'd make the card cost more. A PSU + video card upgrade would probably cost more than just the video card + extra components, but not everyone would need a new PSU and I suspect a great deal of people would be more upset at one ridiculously large price tag than two lesser price tags.
 
I have a 550w Antec and I wouldn't be able to use the GeForce 6800 if it does indeed require two dedicated power cables. I don't really even have that much installed, relatively.
 
It does make a tiny difference. The physical AWG guage wiring on a molex connector can only handle so many amps.

Taken from Antec, in a "typical" powersupply:

Dedicated fan connectors are 24AWG
Floppy drive (one 5V one 12V and two grounds) 22 AWG
P4 connector (two 12V negative and two grounds) 20AWG
Molex connector (one 5V one 12V and two grounds) 18AWG
Motherboard 20-pin bigblock (various from 3.3 to 12V and grounds) 16AWG

Now, I'm thinking that since the cards call for two molex at say the standard 18AWG (Im assuming the videocard is only using the 12Volt and not 5V) then it might be able to get away with one connector that uses 14 or 15 AWG wiring. But no powersupply uses that large size rating wiring for a molex, so It has to be two seperate connectors, with as the INQ suggested the most you want daisychained off it is a fan or maybe a floppy.

BTW, its a really bad idea to run a Radeon 9700/9800 or GFFX with another peripheral on the same power line (esp a highspeed harddrive)
 
Honestly I'm not buying any of this.

I serious doubt they would design a car that needed that requirement. ALso if they did have that requirement it would most likely just hook up to two seperate connectors with other devices on it.
 
The newer P4/AMD's require two dedicated 12volt wires coming in from the proprietary square connector to get the approximate 80 watts+ the CPU gobbles up today.

I don't see why a videocard that may be gobbling up 80 watts+ would be any different. The AGP slot provides a little bit of power, but not that much.
 
Exactly. GPUs are getting closer to CPUs in power requirements every day. You shouldn't be surprised when power connector requirements start to be the same too. Besides, most newer PSUs have 4-5 rails which is all you need. 1 for HDDs/floppy, 1 for CDROM/floppy, 2 for video card and fans. Big deal.
 
Ok. I have 6 HD's, 2 optical drives, 1 FD, 1 firewire card that takes a floppy drive connector, and 4 80mm fans (running off one connector). The 550 watt PS I just bought can do all but the fans...for that, I have to use a splitter. Starting to see the big deal?
 
Originally posted by O[H]-Zone
Ok. I have 6 HD's, 2 optical drives, 1 FD, 1 firewire card that takes a floppy drive connector, and 4 80mm fans (running off one connector). The 550 watt PS I just bought can do all but the fans...for that, I have to use a splitter. Starting to see the big deal?
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Oh no, a splitter. No, I don't see the big deal about having to use a splitter when you have 6 harddrives.
 
Originally posted by obs
No, I don't see the big deal about having to use a splitter when you have 6 harddrives.
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No, the point was that if the reports are true, I'm not going to buy a new Nvidia card, because I don't have enough power supply connections to cover what I have now, much less two more. I didn't mean that my current arrangement was a problem. It's called "context".
 
Originally posted by intercollector

Personally, I don't see the point in having 2 connectors, if they're coming from the same rail. This really doesn't have any impact on how much power it can take. All it'll do is clog up more wires inside the case.
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You have to think about how power is delivered on the card. Those little traces carry the power around the board, and to the chips. If the NV40 really uses that much power, you could easily burn out the traces on the board by sending a ton of power through them. Thus, they halved the amount that goes through each trace by having two power connectors, each one feeding half the card.
 
but everyone is freaking out over TEST SAMPLE pics...or shit they could even be 'shopped pics.... you gotta remember NV still owns part 3dfx's tech...and doesnt this new card use some of the rampages shit on it, which means for test samples they may use 2 molexs but for retail or OEM cards itll be an external supply ala 3dfx voodoo 6000.....just wait and see before freaking out.
 
there is no way an AC-DC adapter will work. The transformer would have to be monstrous. I don't think I've seen any ac-dc adapter that could puto ut much current. A really high rated one might put out 3A.
 
Right now anything is possible and only speculation at this point.
If you asked me for a personal opinion, I would say if the power requirements are really 2 dedicated rails, I say ouch that's going to hurt them bad, unless they have to use some special cooling solution thus the requirements.

And you can forget notebooks with this thing in there.

But until a working model is shown it's all guess work.
 
Originally posted by O[H]-Zone
No, the point was that if the reports are true, I'm not going to buy a new Nvidia card, because I don't have enough power supply connections to cover what I have now, much less two more. I didn't mean that my current arrangement was a problem. It's called "context".
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Or you could use a couple more splitters. The real point is, if you want faster cards you need more power. You can complain all you want, but if the card is as good as they say, an $8 investment in some splitters would be worth it. Hell look at Prescott, it takes a ton more power than Northwood and you get less performance.
 
OBS yeah but you would need two dedicated lines for this beast (if it is indeed true). He would need more then a 'few' splitters' he would somehow need to clear up two independent rails, no easy task. I just hope this isn't true, because if it is, R420 here I come (I hope you're reading this nVidia =P)
 
It was an alpha board as VA and a couple other people mentioned. If you really believe that the production boards will have 2 molex connectors, I have a bridge to sell you. Designs come a long way from alpha to production, so what you see is NOT what you necesarily get.

nVIDIA would go with an external power connector before they added a second molex connector to the production board and forced the potential customer base to upgrade the PSU. 3dfx did it with the 6000, no reason why nVIDIA wouldn't.
 
An external power connector would most likely provide less power than another molex.

As mentioned most wall-brick type AC adaptors only supply about 1 to 3 amps of power at a given voltage. So in case anyone was thinking that it would be a matter of a two inch cube hanging from a wall, that is not going to happen either. It would have to be a Laptop quality power adaptor, which might be possible but unlikely. It would add an exhorbitant amount of cost to the card combo.
 
Originally posted by tazdevl
It was an alpha board as VA and a couple other people mentioned. If you really believe that the production boards will have 2 molex connectors, I have a bridge to sell you. Designs come a long way from alpha to production, so what you see is NOT what you necesarily get.

nVIDIA would go with an external power connector before they added a second molex connector to the production board and forced the potential customer base to upgrade the PSU. 3dfx did it with the 6000, no reason why nVIDIA wouldn't.
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Wow, you're really going out on a limb. The facts are that nobody knows what nvidia is going to do. If you think that they're not that stupid, recall putting a dustbuster on a card. If they're stupid enough to do that, then who knows what they might do.

I may just take you up on the bridge offer in about 6 days :)
 
The reason I am concerned is because I just built this Shuttle PC. They don't exactly have monstrous Power Supplies.

Also, I really hope the NV40 doesn't take up the adjacent PCI slot, because that would rule me out too.
 
I can say with almost 100% sureness that the nv40 will be a dual slot machine.
 
Ya, both cards that are reveiled next tuesday are not going to be set up for small form factor PCs. They are going to be [H]ardcore gaming cards meant for full PCs, not HTCP.

You'll have to wait a few months before a card manufaturer makes a low power, single slot (with a low profile fan) card.
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
I can say with almost 100% sureness that the nv40 will be a dual slot machine.
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*cries*

I hope the R420 doesn't then, or I'm screwed unless I do a case mod.
 
If you look at the pic just posted, it looks like a single slot to me. It also has two molex connectors. My thinking is that one was not enough to power the fan and the card. I am betting one connector is to power the fan/cooling and the other is for the card. It is probably recommended that they be on two different rails but I find it hard to believe they have to be on the rails by themselves without any other device.
 
Originally posted by barubal
it definitely is a single slot
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If I recall correctly, almost all reference boards (other than the 5800) have been single slot solutions, and the retail boards, which generally have more powerful cooling solutions, take up a second slot.

you will be hard pressed to find a retail board that will be single slot in april or may.
 
Originally posted by Diseaseboy
If you look at the pic just posted, it looks like a single slot to me. It also has two molex connectors. My thinking is that one was not enough to power the fan and the card. I am betting one connector is to power the fan/cooling and the other is for the card. It is probably recommended that they be on two different rails but I find it hard to believe they have to be on the rails by themselves without any other device.
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The fan that size would take less than 1 watt of power.
 
From what I've read, the 2 molex connectors haven't gone away. On the b3d forums, the reviewer hinted (but didn't actually say) that his review sample has both.

edit: and I've read from quite a few places that NV highly recommends using 2 different rails soley for the card (+/- maybe a case fan or two). So grabbing 2 splitters won't come close to solving the problem for most people.

Also, has anyone considered that this "2 molex, power hungry beast" only requires 1 slot? Past cards have needed only 1 molex and took up 2 slots, so how in the heck can this thing only take 1? I have to agree with the above posters, we're looking at 2 slots minimum. Of course, this assumes many of the current rumors are true.
 
Originally posted by intercollector
If I recall correctly, almost all reference boards (other than the 5800) have been single slot solutions, and the retail boards, which generally have more powerful cooling solutions, take up a second slot.

you will be hard pressed to find a retail board that will be single slot in april or may.
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the 5900 and 5950 reference boards were 2 slot boards
 
Wht nvidia dont use low.k tech like ati...

i think ati r420 use only 1 molex conector :)
 
somehow I doubt that the r420 weighs in at 210 million transistors like the nv40 does though.
 
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