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Things are running hot...

D

DaveofTn

n00b
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
9
My build:

Case: Silverstone Sugo SG-01 case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163116
Mobo: M4A88TD-M/USB3
Processor: Phenom II x4 945 (125W version)
Fan/Heatsink: Scythe SCSK-1100 100mm Shuriken Rev. B 3 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185097
Heatsink applied with Artic Silver 5
Ram: 16gb Corsair LP DDR3-1600
Video: Radeon HD 6870

Currently, I have the stock Silverstone fans on top, and the one on the side. At idle, my CPU is 45-52 Celsius, under load it steadily climbs towards 70 (I normally stop what I'm doing at 68).

Is this more than likely a case of the 6870 causing too much heat (thus better ventilation somehow?), a bad application of thermal grease, or do I need a better heatsink (water cooled perhaps?). Any advice would be welcome. I don't care about noise.

Thanks for any advice. This is my first SSF build (most of which I bought from someone), so I'm really looking forward to getting this thing stable.
 
70 degrees is nothing to worry about yet though. Of course it's hard to tell how high it will actually rise to, since you stop before it does. I'm not really familiar with the SG01 so I don't know how its ventilation is exactly, but the Phenom II X4 945 indeed isn't a low power consumption CPU, so it'll inevitably get a bit warm under load. If you're running it at stock speeds, try undervolting it if remains table, that'll help with the temps as well. Same goes for the HD 6870.

My CPU and GPU are both undervolted quite substantially, still stable at stock speed and use a lot less power and therefore cause a lot less heating. Mind you, especially the GPU still runs at about 85 degrees while gaming, because I keep the fans at pretty minimal settings (I like things nice and quiet).
 
So at what temp should I stop it at? It's really weird that my 125W is rated by AMD for 62 degrees while the 95W version is rated for 72 degrees.

In addition to the 6870, I do have onboard video, I guess I could try running the onboard and see what the CPU does? That would rule out whether the hot air from the 6870 is hitting the CPU?
 
DaveofTn said:
My build:

Case: Silverstone Sugo SG-01 case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163116
Mobo: M4A88TD-M/USB3
Processor: Phenom II x4 945 (125W version)
Fan/Heatsink: Scythe SCSK-1100 100mm Shuriken Rev. B 3 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185097
Heatsink applied with Artic Silver 5
Ram: 16gb Corsair LP DDR3-1600
Video: Radeon HD 6870

Currently, I have the stock Silverstone fans on top, and the one on the side. At idle, my CPU is 45-52 Celsius, under load it steadily climbs towards 70 (I normally stop what I'm doing at 68).

Is this more than likely a case of the 6870 causing too much heat (thus better ventilation somehow?), a bad application of thermal grease, or do I need a better heatsink (water cooled perhaps?). Any advice would be welcome. I don't care about noise.

Thanks for any advice. This is my first SSF build (most of which I bought from someone), so I'm really looking forward to getting this thing stable.
Click to expand...

High idle temps generally mean higher ambient temps, poor mount or the fan isn't effectively working. So, given that you should either intake more air since your case should naturally exhaust the heat, increase the fan speed of your heatsink's fan, remount the heatsink and/or clean the heatsink for dust buildup.

As for the safe temp, that does seem rather high for stock settings. AMD's rating is 62C so I would use that a basis.
 
Well, I reapplied thermal grease to the CPU using a bit less this time and it's still idling in the same range. However, with the case cover off, I ran it in a game again and it held steady at 58-59. So, I think the problem is I am pushing the 520w power supply to the max causing lots of heat. To make matters worse, the CPU fan is underrated and sits an inch below the psu toaster oven.

If I buy a 650w psu wouldn't that generate less heat? My case doesn't have a 120mm fan slot, but couldn't I "make" a slot on the side of the case for a cpu water cooler?
 
DaveofTn said:
Well, I reapplied thermal grease to the CPU using a bit less this time and it's still idling in the same range. However, with the case cover off, I ran it in a game again and it held steady at 58-59. So, I think the problem is I am pushing the 520w power supply to the max causing lots of heat. To make matters worse, the CPU fan is underrated and sits an inch below the psu toaster oven.

If I buy a 650w psu wouldn't that generate less heat? My case doesn't have a 120mm fan slot, but couldn't I "make" a slot on the side of the case for a cpu water cooler?
Click to expand...

Ah, well if you get cooler temps with the cover off then it is an airflow issue. Does your PSU have a 120mm fan on the bottom intaking air from the case? If this is the case it should be exhausting some of the heat in your case. If that is the case you could try flipping your heatsinks fan so blows upwards into the PSU and out of the case. I know in the SG05/06 the PSU and heatsink created turbulence when the fans were doing the opposite of each other.

As for the new PSU, what PSU do you have anyways?
 
I have a Corsair HX520w PSU. From the calcs I've did, my system should be using 480w of it which is why I'm wondering if I'm pushing it too far into the highend? The case removal did improve things under load, but shouldn't I be idling much lower?!?

Ok, I'm gonna try flipping the fan!

Thanks for the help/advice, it is very appreciated!
 
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Well, I flipped the fan so that it now blows up into the PSU. No change in temps, but it does appear that I can put the case cover back on. Running Prime95 shot the temps up past 62 within a minute though :(
 
Last edited:
DaveofTn said:
Well, I flipped the fan so that it now blows up into the PSU. No change in temps, but it does appear that I can put the case cover back on. Running Prime95 shot the temps up past 62 within a minute though :(
Click to expand...

I'd flip the heatsink's fan back again so we can get to the normal temps you had before.

It was an idea since sometimes we have to test to see if things will work.Given the circumstances it would be a 'quick fix' when compared to modding or buying item. Beyond that, it is going to come down increasing airflow into the case, increasing airflow for the heatsink or replacing the heatsink with something beefier.

Have you checked to see how the fan settings are set in the BIOS for the CPU? It may not ramp up to higher speeds due to its settings. Worth a shot.
 
Well, one other problem I kinda have is I upgraded the cpu (from a Athlon II 65w to a 125w), video (integrated to 6870), and ram (probably not a culprit). So I'm not sure if the 6870 is changing ambient temps, or if the heatsink simply can't handle a high wattage cpu.

I just woke up, but I'll for sure take a look at the bios. I know it has a "Cool n' Quiet" setting that I have tried disabling. It is an Asus board with a zillion features, so I wouldn't be surprised that there's a setting in there.

Should I maybe try putting the 65w back in? If that allows the heatsink to keep up (less watts, less heat), that would tell me if it is ambient temps or the heatsink. My bets are on the heatsink since it still runs relatively hot with the case cover off. The case cover is an upside down U-shape, so when it's off it is pretty open.

I could probably sell the Athlon II/125w Phenom and buy a 95w Phenom to put less of a load on the heatsink.
 
DaveofTn said:
Well, one other problem I kinda have is I upgraded the cpu (from a Athlon II 65w to a 125w), video (integrated to 6870), and ram (probably not a culprit). So I'm not sure if the 6870 is changing ambient temps, or if the heatsink simply can't handle a high wattage cpu.

I just woke up, but I'll for sure take a look at the bios. I know it has a "Cool n' Quiet" setting that I have tried disabling. It is an Asus board with a zillion features, so I wouldn't be surprised that there's a setting in there.

Should I maybe try putting the 65w back in? If that allows the heatsink to keep up (less watts, less heat), that would tell me if it is ambient temps or the heatsink. My bets are on the heatsink since it still runs relatively hot with the case cover off. The case cover is an upside down U-shape, so when it's off it is pretty open.

I could probably sell the Athlon II/125w Phenom and buy a 95w Phenom to put less of a load on the heatsink.
Click to expand...

You want to leave cool n' quiet on as that will lower the cpu speed when doing non-intensive tasks and reduces the fan speed. There should be an option in the PC health status (at least on gigabyte boards) in the BIOS that allow you to change how the fan reacts to temperatures.

As for swapping the CPU, you could try that and test to see if it is the CPU or video card since you increased your heat output by a lot with both new pieces of hardware.

But honestly, it seems like the shuriken is keeping your temps high. It is meant to be quiet and low profile. Just my opinion if you look at reviews regarding the cooler.
 
DaveofTn said:
So what's a good low profile fan/heatsink that you'd recommend? With such a low clearance, I'm leaning towards this which I can get for $43ish after mail-in rebate?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015

I'd have to mod the side of the case to hold the radiator/fan, but I'd think it would for sure rule out any ambient temperature issues.
Click to expand...

Yes, you would have to mod your case to use that. Other options are:

Big shuriken
Thermalright AXP-140
Prolimatech samuel 17
Coolermaster Geminii (old) http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=140
Coolermaster Geminii S w/ slim fan
Coolermaster Vortex Plus

Other options:
Upgrade the fan on the Shuriken to a more powerful fan since there is clearance for a non-slim fan
Undervolt the CPU a bit

I'd look into reviews to see which one is the best choice bang for the buck. Performance wise, the GeminII will probably offer the quietest solution since you could probably run it passive due to its large size. The AXP-140 would be next in line with a slim fan. Only problem with these two are: the GeminII is discontinued so you'd have to find a used one and the AXP140 is expensive.

Big shuriken would offer more performance than your shuriken now, but it would not be the "best solution."

As always, search to see if it is fully compatible with your case.
 
Well, I'm 99.9% sure it is the heatsink/fan causing the probs. I popped in the Athlon and it's fine. I've also noticed that my mobo temp stays pretty steady even when the CPU temp is going up.

I also tried playing with bios settings and setting the default on turbo for the fan instead of standard, and I also tried Asus' Fan software. I set the CPU fan at a minimum value of 1700rpm (it maxes at 2280), and it just did not keep up in Prime95. However, it did last 8 minutes until it hit 62 which was a major improvement (case cover on), and it did pull the idle down to 36 degrees (9 degree difference!!!). So, I will probably leave those settings intact for now.

I would stay with the shuriken, but the top of it covers a lot of the mobo and I think I'd rather open up the mobo a bit to increase airflow to any capacitors and the ram. For that side of the case, the only air movement comes from the cpu fan and the psu almost directly above it.

I'm gonna try the Corsair H60. I see a lot of peeps using it for 130w intel chips, so it should handle my 125w.

I hardly use DVD drives (and I'm used to my netbook to where I have to iso everything on the wife's pc to a flashdrive and clonedrive off the hd). So, I'm gonna see if Silverstone will send me 2 more bay covers and I'm gonna run the radiator/fan from the 2 bays. That will leave my case intact, let me still easily remove the cover, and from the pics I've seen of 120mm fans in the bay using modded bay covers, it looks pretty sexy.
 
I can tell you none of these solutions will work.... very well.

my current rig for almost 2 years uses the C2 125w 955BE and it is one hot beast.

With the Geminii S http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103046 in my CM Elite 360 sucking fresh air from the outside, and 2 80mm fans and a 120mm fan exhausting the hot air out it creeps up right around 60c under prime.

Basically your best bet depending on what your doing with your processor is to disable 1 maybe 2 cores, and undervolt as much as you can. That is what I did when I was using a LianLi 351 which is similar to your case, but better airflow 2 120mm front fans.

In the end that case is warm, so make up your decision as to how hot and how often you want to run your phenom above 62-65c or get a MicroAtx Tower that supports a 120mm tower heatsink

-doober
 
DaveofTn said:
Well, I'm 99.9% sure it is the heatsink/fan causing the probs. I popped in the Athlon and it's fine. I've also noticed that my mobo temp stays pretty steady even when the CPU temp is going up.

I also tried playing with bios settings and setting the default on turbo for the fan instead of standard, and I also tried Asus' Fan software. I set the CPU fan at a minimum value of 1700rpm (it maxes at 2280), and it just did not keep up in Prime95. However, it did last 8 minutes until it hit 62 which was a major improvement (case cover on), and it did pull the idle down to 36 degrees (9 degree difference!!!). So, I will probably leave those settings intact for now.

I would stay with the shuriken, but the top of it covers a lot of the mobo and I think I'd rather open up the mobo a bit to increase airflow to any capacitors and the ram. For that side of the case, the only air movement comes from the cpu fan and the psu almost directly above it.

I'm gonna try the Corsair H60. I see a lot of peeps using it for 130w intel chips, so it should handle my 125w.

I hardly use DVD drives (and I'm used to my netbook to where I have to iso everything on the wife's pc to a flashdrive and clonedrive off the hd). So, I'm gonna see if Silverstone will send me 2 more bay covers and I'm gonna run the radiator/fan from the 2 bays. That will leave my case intact, let me still easily remove the cover, and from the pics I've seen of 120mm fans in the bay using modded bay covers, it looks pretty sexy.
Click to expand...

If you are up to modding your case, you can work on improving airflow to fix having the heat stay in the case. Up to you on how to handle it.

Basically below are some options:

Changes cases
Get a better heatsink
Improve airflow
Use the athlon II
Possibly undervolt?

doober said:
I can tell you none of these solutions will work.... very well.

my current rig for almost 2 years uses the C2 125w 955BE and it is one hot beast.

With the Geminii S http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103046 in my CM Elite 360 sucking fresh air from the outside, and 2 80mm fans and a 120mm fan exhausting the hot air out it creeps up right around 60c under prime.

Basically your best bet depending on what your doing with your processor is to disable 1 maybe 2 cores, and undervolt as much as you can. That is what I did when I was using a LianLi 351 which is similar to your case, but better airflow 2 120mm front fans.

In the end that case is warm, so make up your decision as to how hot and how often you want to run your phenom above 62-65c or get a MicroAtx Tower that supports a 120mm tower heatsink

-doober
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but I think going from 70C to 60C is a large improvement when airflow is an issue. Especially when considering it is going from above the rated temp to a bit below the rated temp.

I don't think disabling cores is a good idea since he previously had an Athlon II and it would be pointless?

But yes, changing the case would be the ideal situation since it will allow for further improvement for future builds. However, form factor is more important for some people so he may want to keep the SG01.
 
I would prefer keeping the SG01 (a combination of laziness and being on a budget, whatever I buy I will have to offset by selling something). I could be wrong (and you guys are certainly more of the experts than I am), but I don't think ambient temps are causing much of a problem. The MB temp under full load is staying around 40, and my vid card isn't getting too hot either (when I load test using a game).

If I use the H60, that will allow me to put a more robust heatsink on the cpu in addition to introducing more airflow into the case. The biggest heat generator is the psu and it's kind of in a deadzone as far as case fans and ventilation. Putting the H60 in the drivebay will also throw some air at the the sides of the psu which I think will encourage some of the heat to dissipate to other areas of the case quicker where it can get drawn out. My case is pure aluminum with no paint, so that should help as well (I think?).

Assuming that fails, I can always sell the Athlon ($30?) and my current Phenom ($60-$80?) and buy a 95W Phenom that should generate less heat and have a higher threshold on temps (70 degrees instead of 60).

If that fails, I will probably then buy a new case since I don't want to get crazy modding.
 
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I was the one who sold the system to DaveofTN and I like to meantion that the Athlon II X2 is actually the Athlon II X2 210e which is a 45w TDP.

The X2 210e + Shuriken hs/f is a great combo.

Though not exactly good when pair with a 125W TDP CPU.
 
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