Welcome to the ignore list, you're in good company.
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The web - 10 years old.. still looks like a baby
- Thread starter osalcido
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Its much easier for him to just put us on his ignore list than to admit that he might be wrong.
GJSNeptune
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Let's start the I'm On Osalcido's Ignore List Club. This thread will be our meeting room.
Hi. I'm GJSNeptune, and I'm on osalcido's ignore list. I am one of the fortunate ones that made it in his signature (and with my username spelled correctly). Do I remember what I did to him? Really wish I did. Thank you for listening to my story.
Hi. I'm GJSNeptune, and I'm on osalcido's ignore list. I am one of the fortunate ones that made it in his signature (and with my username spelled correctly). Do I remember what I did to him? Really wish I did. Thank you for listening to my story.
Night Black
Gawd
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I'll be the first to admit it. I like the concept of flash. It works... in theory.
Now to quote Homer Simpson: "Communism works... in theory!"
The majority of flash I've seen recently has been horribly implemented. It's always bloated, slow, and navigation is a mess. Plus, it complicates processes, and suffers from glitches. Just take a look at a Newegg's ad on the front page. It killed my computer every time I loaded it. Plus, the plugins are an IT implementation nightmare. In the school board here in Toronto, all computers don't have flash, and it can't be installed. Productivity is still higher than when the networks had flash enabled. Now, I don't hate flash, I think it's a great concept. I use Youtube, the Canadian Forces website I visit looks much more professional, and i enjoy the occasional game. But there are kinks to be worked out. Major kinks. Such as lack of search, and load times for dial up users. (Most of my family uses dial up, except for me.)
However, for the same reason we like to keep wooden pencils around, HTML is still around because it's effective, simple, needs no specialized tools to use, and can be seen on almost every platform that can view the web.
PS: Osalcido, this whole ignore list thing is stupid. People are trying to bring a counter point to you, and anybody who doesn't agree gets sent on the list. You suggest rules for people to follow, then promptly break them like that. Seriously, lighten up a little.
Now to quote Homer Simpson: "Communism works... in theory!"
The majority of flash I've seen recently has been horribly implemented. It's always bloated, slow, and navigation is a mess. Plus, it complicates processes, and suffers from glitches. Just take a look at a Newegg's ad on the front page. It killed my computer every time I loaded it. Plus, the plugins are an IT implementation nightmare. In the school board here in Toronto, all computers don't have flash, and it can't be installed. Productivity is still higher than when the networks had flash enabled. Now, I don't hate flash, I think it's a great concept. I use Youtube, the Canadian Forces website I visit looks much more professional, and i enjoy the occasional game. But there are kinks to be worked out. Major kinks. Such as lack of search, and load times for dial up users. (Most of my family uses dial up, except for me.)
However, for the same reason we like to keep wooden pencils around, HTML is still around because it's effective, simple, needs no specialized tools to use, and can be seen on almost every platform that can view the web.
PS: Osalcido, this whole ignore list thing is stupid. People are trying to bring a counter point to you, and anybody who doesn't agree gets sent on the list. You suggest rules for people to follow, then promptly break them like that. Seriously, lighten up a little.
Seriously, what's the point of the thread if you aren't willing to take counterpoints/criticism? What motivation does anybody have to seriously debate anything with you if this is your attitude?
I know you are reading this.
It's called trolling....and by the constant stream of responses, its been quite effective.
Welcome to the ignore list, you're in good company.
You know, I finally get it
osalcido said:
Oh, I really don't worry about the how. Thing is, I've tried reasoning with you about all this, but you really don't appear rational or well-researched about the subject beyond spouting Microsoft marketing guff about Silverlight. With that in mind, I can feel the irrepressible urge to get on your ignore list bubbling up through my guts. Please, tell me what I need to do to get there (presuming I'm not there already, at which point I guess you've truly driven me cuckoo and I'm talking to myself). Should I make fun of the size of your winkie? Or maybe just say something derogatory about your puppy...? I suppose I need to know how far's too far (I wouldn't want to cause offense).
Alternatively, you could just admit that maybe somebody other than you in this thread has a point and knows what they're talking about.
Seriously though, I have to thank you for a most rewarding and entertaining thread...I needed a good laugh to while away a short Winter day, and you have exceeded the minimum requirement with gusto. I figure there are but a few possibilities here:
1. maw was right, you're a troll. If that's the case I say, well played sir! Pages of responses; angry forum denizens struggling to defend their points of view while standing on ever-shrinking ice floes of logic. I tell you, the imagery alone makes me think of Spring, and the inevitable thaw. Thank you!
2. You're an up-and-coming web designer who wants revolution instead of evolution. If that's the case, I say proceed with your dreams...remain starry-eyed and yes, perhaps a bit naïve. Every society needs people on the outside, carrying the torch of creativity to give light to new depths and corners. I'm glad to be a part of it; thank you!
3. You're a young person, and feel that your point of view is well reasoned and thought out, and can't understand why us old farts can't see the light. If that's the case, may I be the first to introduce you...world, this is osalcido; osalcido, the world. What you feel, regardless of how fervently, will be washed away by an unrelenting sea of mediocrity, an acidic solvent made up of the needs, wishes and expectations of about 75% of the adult human population. You will toil on obscure projects and designs that will be seen by few, and appreciated by fewer. It's not worth it...think of it this way. On one side of the room are users, holding signs over their heads expressing their particular needs and expectations. On the other side of the room is you, representing a paying customer. Your job as a web designer is to connect the two sides of the room. Period. Now, you have the power...is that connection going to be easy, intuitive and accessible to the majority of the users? Or will it be a difficult journey for them, fraught with unneeded obstacles? Think of these things:
Ma and Pa kettle don't want to install a plugin...they fear and despise things that have to be installed.
People on dialup, no matter how many or few, need to be able to see the site. More than about 20 or 30 seconds load time, and they start to realize that you don't really care for them, and they'll go back to checking the current NASCAR or BassMaster standings (I kid!)
People with disabilities need to be able to use the site.
People with portable devices and cellphones need to use the site.
If you give up on any of these groups, and probably others I'm forgetting, you're restricting the user base that your customer can reach, without real benefit. Will he/she be happy with that?
Oh, and possibility #4 is that you think that Microsoft, in their finite but copious wisdom has got the answers to all questions. If that's the case...oh, man, are you in for a bitch-slap from reality!
1. maw was right, you're a troll. If that's the case I say, well played sir! Pages of responses; angry forum denizens struggling to defend their points of view while standing on ever-shrinking ice floes of logic. I tell you, the imagery alone makes me think of Spring, and the inevitable thaw. Thank you!
2. You're an up-and-coming web designer who wants revolution instead of evolution. If that's the case, I say proceed with your dreams...remain starry-eyed and yes, perhaps a bit naïve. Every society needs people on the outside, carrying the torch of creativity to give light to new depths and corners. I'm glad to be a part of it; thank you!
3. You're a young person, and feel that your point of view is well reasoned and thought out, and can't understand why us old farts can't see the light. If that's the case, may I be the first to introduce you...world, this is osalcido; osalcido, the world. What you feel, regardless of how fervently, will be washed away by an unrelenting sea of mediocrity, an acidic solvent made up of the needs, wishes and expectations of about 75% of the adult human population. You will toil on obscure projects and designs that will be seen by few, and appreciated by fewer. It's not worth it...think of it this way. On one side of the room are users, holding signs over their heads expressing their particular needs and expectations. On the other side of the room is you, representing a paying customer. Your job as a web designer is to connect the two sides of the room. Period. Now, you have the power...is that connection going to be easy, intuitive and accessible to the majority of the users? Or will it be a difficult journey for them, fraught with unneeded obstacles? Think of these things:
Ma and Pa kettle don't want to install a plugin...they fear and despise things that have to be installed.
People on dialup, no matter how many or few, need to be able to see the site. More than about 20 or 30 seconds load time, and they start to realize that you don't really care for them, and they'll go back to checking the current NASCAR or BassMaster standings (I kid!)
People with disabilities need to be able to use the site.
People with portable devices and cellphones need to use the site.
If you give up on any of these groups, and probably others I'm forgetting, you're restricting the user base that your customer can reach, without real benefit. Will he/she be happy with that?
Oh, and possibility #4 is that you think that Microsoft, in their finite but copious wisdom has got the answers to all questions. If that's the case...oh, man, are you in for a bitch-slap from reality!
Or, claim to not understand them. I'm not sure why Osalcido started this thread, since he's demonstrating neither an interest in a productive discsussion, or the ability to ask insightful questions.
BillLeeLee
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I'm amazed this thread is still open. I was going to give my thoughts, but pretty much everyone else has covered all the points I would have touched on in why we're still using boring old HTML
Can I be ignored too? I would argue against a Flash or Silverlight revolution (not that I have anything against the technologies as they are, but more in how they could be used poorly) if everyone else didn't already do it ahead of me.
Plus I wanna be in someone's sig.
Can I be ignored too? I would argue against a Flash or Silverlight revolution (not that I have anything against the technologies as they are, but more in how they could be used poorly) if everyone else didn't already do it ahead of me.
Plus I wanna be in someone's sig.
Heh...actually, I got some flashbacks from participating in this thread. The OP's kinda like an early-teenaged version of STL, if anyone remembers him (hint: "I'm right! Right, dammit! You're all wrong, and you're all stupid!").
Ah, the good ol' days
Ah, the good ol' days
Heh, talk about memories.Heh...actually, I got some flashbacks from participating in this thread. The OP's kinda like an early-teenaged version of STL, if anyone remembers him (hint: "I'm right! Right, dammit! You're all wrong, and you're all stupid!").
Ah, the good ol' days
The difference is that STL *did* know what he was talking about most of the time. That was most of the annoyance.
My only real stance on Flash is that it can be powerful and useful...in the right hands. There have certainly been things I'd like to do with pure XHTML/CSS/JS that are very difficult, too complex or not really possible without a more integrated scripting language that can really interface through different elements like what's achievable with Flash. We're seeing great stuff from Ajax-type design in terms of interactive applications, but it's also a somewhat messy process. Flash can "clean up the junk", in some ways, but it's also reliant on the user needing the plug-in itself. That's the most massive catch of all.
It's great for web applications, but not great for much more than that, unfortunately. Using Flash for the sake of using it is typical practice, and generally poor practice.
STL, that is ringing a bell. Can't quite recall who STL was.Heh...actually, I got some flashbacks from participating in this thread. The OP's kinda like an early-teenaged version of STL, if anyone remembers him (hint: "I'm right! Right, dammit! You're all wrong, and you're all stupid!").
Ah, the good ol' days
BillLeeLee
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I remember STL from way back in the day. Combative but he was knowledgeable about C++ and the STL. This was back in the 2003 - 2004 days.
heh.. STL.. that name brings back memories. He was the antithesis of oscalcido. Argued vehemently that all web pages must contain only black text on white background..period. Fancied himself as some kind of undiscovered super-genius, but in reality was just a pimply faced kid with extremely bad eyesight.
ROFLMAO
QFT lol I laughed hard when I read that
lightning meet osalcido...he will be your new favorite rod to play with
funny thread to have been following for the past couple days
funny thread to have been following for the past couple days
I'm just glad it's Christmas time - the mods are clearly on holiday, otherwise this thread would've been killed long ago (like, page 2 or 3). And, of course, we'd all have lost out on the entertainment value
With regards to the guys who almost remember STL, it seems that you won't be able to find any of his endlessly entertaining posts any more - they got purged when he was banned. However, there's quite a lot of quotes of his posts out there even though the search function doesn't respond to "STL". I've been re-reading the conversations I had with him...ooooo, the nostalgia....
GJSNeptune
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R
ring.of.steel
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I was just thinking that...
TechieSooner
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And to further prove you have no idea what you are talking about... You call Flash a new technology
Silverlight you might had some ground to stand on. But for these simple things that were mentioned, Flash has had PLENTY of time to work this out.
I think I'd agree the mods are all on vacation... Surprised it is not closed yet!
Oh and FYI osalcido... There actually was one person on here that was willing to listen to your theory, wanted some of the reasons and examples behind it. But naturally, you blatantly ignored him.
Au contraire, mon frere - I think we were all content to listen to the theory, until it became clear that he wasn't interested in fleshing it out beyond "I don't like HTML because it's boring" and then started blatantly glossing over questions he didn't know the answer to and threatening everyone with his ignore list.
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