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The term "bottleneck"

E

eli

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,648
I have a fague idea of the term "bottleneck". I hear people saying "if your going to get a barton 2500+, and a RADEON 9800 Pro, your CPU is going to be the bottleneck. Now is it just that my CPU is slow, and by getting a slightly faster CPU, my video card would perform "a lot" better? or just a little better.

its hard to explain, I just can't grasp the concept.

Thanks
 
Hey eli!! haven't seen you in the forums for a while. Got any updates on your water cooling project.

but about the post... what you said is correct. To understand it better you might say a PIII600 with a 9800XT. Now the CPU would be the bottleneck because it doesn't allow the 9800XT to use it's full "power".
 
The "bottleneck" is the slowest component in the computer. Basically, there's no point in upgrading your machine if you aren't upgrading the part that is the bottleneck. It's which component will give you the most "bang for your buck" in an upgrade.

In your example, if you upgraded your cpu, you would see a bigger improvement than if you upgraded the video card.

Of course, everything on these forums is relative. When people say "a lot better" what that means is a mystery. A P4 2.6GHz machine will perform "a lot better" than say a 486. Will a 2.6GHz machine perform "a lot better" than a 2.4GHz machine? Some people think so.

A 2500+ machine with a Radeon 9800 Pro is screaming fast. There's not really a reason to upgrade unless you want a few extra fps with all the eye candy turned on.
 
bottleneck would be the weakest link. Doesn't mean the CPU is slow but that the 3d card has more potential than the CPU allows for.
 
it is literally referrring to a bottle, notice at how there is a big amount of "bottle" but only so much can go out through the "neck" at one time, and the stuff in the bottle is coming out a lot slower than if the neck was wider.

........_
.......|..| <-notice how the neck of my "bottle" is smaller and cant
....../... \ transfer as much as it would if it were as wide as
...../..... \
....|...c...|
....|...o...| it is here
....|...k...|
....|...e...|
....|__.__|


now, lets say the 2500 is the neck of the bottle and the 9800 pro is the bottom part, which is wider.

ok, fixed it, hope it helps:) Coke is better than Pepsi!
 
whats up Enforcer! The watercooling project actually went pretty good. I ended up getting the Waterchill system. Since it was my first time with water cooling, I thought it would be best. I ended up buying a system using it for about 3 months, and then selling it to my best friend. I love building systems, and I have some cash to build a new one.

I am buying another system similiar to the one I had, I am just building one with a much better video card. I was just basically wondering if a 2500+, 1 GIG of ram, and a Radeon 9800 Pro would perform good in games and not have any bottlenecks.

Thanks for the info guys!
 
Every system has a bottle neck - it's just your slowest component. What you want to do is get all your components as equal as possible though, so you aren't wasting potential.
 
I am buying another system similiar to the one I had, I am just building one with a much better video card. I was just basically wondering if a 2500+, 1 GIG of ram, and a Radeon 9800 Pro would perform good in games and not have any bottlenecks.
Click to expand...

I am trying to build a good budget gaming box, do you see any bottlenecks?
 
Originally posted by retardedchicken

........_
.......|..| <-notice how the neck of my "bottle" is smaller and cant
....../... \ transfer as much as it would if it were as wide as
...../..... \
....|........|
....|........| it is here
....|........|
....|........|
....|__.__|
Click to expand...

rofl thats priceless :D :p :D
 
a bottleneck is not just meaning the slowest part of the computer

it also mean/implies that their is/are a part(s) in the system that can push faster then another part(s) in the system there for the latter is the bottleneck

example1: amd 1500+ w/ATI 9800XT (AMD 1500+) is bottleneck

example2: any 8x video card w/ any mobo with only a 4x agp slot (mobo is bottleneck)

second example is present on the system in my sig...
 
Originally posted by paulmr
example2: any 8x video card w/ any mobo with only a 4x agp slot (mobo is bottleneck)
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that the 8x stuff was just marketing hype, and not necessary for another few years or so. So 4x mobo wouldn't be a bottleneck. Similar to how ATA-133 come out long before ATA-66 was even at full capacity.
 
Damn....and I was under the impression that people used the term "bottleneck" so it was EASY to grasp? That's why no one refers to it as some long technical term!
 
Here's an example. I got a PIII 800MHZ with an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. Can you say Bottleneck? ;)

Luckily my new system is on its way in a week.
 
Originally posted by ilkka
I was under the impression that the 8x stuff was just marketing hype, and not necessary for another few years or so. So 4x mobo wouldn't be a bottleneck. Similar to how ATA-133 come out long before ATA-66 was even at full capacity.
Click to expand...

I agree. 8x over 4x is like what, 2 FPS different? At least, that's how it was when I was looking at benchmarks. I personally can't tell a difference at all between running it at 8x and 4x AGP. Maybe 1 or 2 FPS in my system or something, not enough to care about...

Originally posted by RandysWay
Here's an example. I got a PIII 800MHZ with an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. Can you say Bottleneck? ;)

Luckily my new system is on its way in a week.
Click to expand...

Eh, yeah... Bottleneck is a word you could use :p
 
I understand now, thanks guys. basically its the part of the computer that is not using its full potential, and it is being held back by one or more other components.

Later,
Eli
 
Originally posted by RandysWay
Here's an example. I got a PIII 800MHZ with an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. Can you say Bottleneck? ;)

Luckily my new system is on its way in a week.
Click to expand...

You have given a perfect example.
 
Originally posted by djnes
Damn....and I was under the impression that people used the term "bottleneck" so it was EASY to grasp? That's why no one refers to it as some long technical term!
Click to expand...

ROFL. Good one man. Guess we need to work up to layman's terms.
 
So let me get this straight would my KT400 board and DDR266 pc2100 ram limit my 9500 pro and 2100XP performance? :eek:
 
well, after seeing a few articles from tom's, i have concluded that they will say ANYTHING with an AMD logo on it is a bottleneck:rolleyes:


thanks for the compliments on my bottle:D
updated the bottle for ya Coke lovers
 
I got another real-life example:

let's say your on an airplane. you're in the way back, and you want to get out. but you CAN'T! you have to wait for all the other people to get out first before it is your turn to get off the plane. The bottleneck is the small door of the plane relative to the amount of people that need to get out.

Let's say that the airplane was a computer. If there was a bigger door (lets say the whole length of the airplane), then everyone could get out at the same time, and no more bottleneck :)

:p
 
Well, here's my entire system, I just ordered it from newegg:

1. Antec P160 (two 120mm fans)
2. Antec True Power 430
3. Abit NF7-S
4. AMD Barton 2500+ Retail
5. Mushkin lvl 1 PC3200 RAM
6. Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro
7. WD Raptor (hardly have any storage, but getting 120gb later)
8. Samsung 16x DVD Rom(CD burner later on)
9. SB Audigy 2
10. Logitech Z-2200
11. Viewsonic G90f

let me know if the video card is going to be bottleneck and I should get something slower....say a 9600 pro?

Thanks,
eli
 
Originally posted by eli
let me know if the video card is going to be bottleneck and I should get something slower....say a 9600 pro?
Click to expand...


Despite the wonderful analogies, your still not grasping this concept. Your PC is not going to perform better if you get a slower video card. Bottlenecks don't refer to the fastest component...they refer to the slowest. If you had the following:

P4 1.5 Ghz, 1 GB PC3200 memory, Radeon 9800 Pro, WD Raptor drive etc.....it would be abslutely clear that the processor was the bottleneck. It's the one component holding the system back. It's also what you would see the biggest benefit from if you upgraded. Your system looks fine as is. I'm not sure how much easier we can make this concept.
 
I completely understood it dude. its just, if my cpu is the bottleneck, then getting a video card that is too good wouldn't be that much better then getting a lower end video card. I was just wondering the if the 9800 pro would be a lot better then the 9600 pro on the system i am running.
 
The video card does a lot of work and processing itself. So, if you get a better video card, you will see a difference compared to the other slowers cards. Those differences are pretty much the same percentage between cards, regardless of processors. I mean, for example the 9600XT will always be 10% slower (etc) than the 9800XT in the same system....so it's up to you to decide is it worth the money for an extra 10%.
 
ok, well the 9800 pro is only $200, so I think I'll just go with that. Heck, It'll last me quite a while I think. I am also strongly considering getting a P4 3.0Ghz and a P4P800.

Thanks for your help.
 
From experience, a 2500 and 9800 pro are a great combo. Ya, the 2500 is a bit of a bottleneck, but you can still run all your games at 1280 with AA/AF at nice levels and get good frame rates. It should be an excellent set up for you.
 
Originally posted by eli
I completely understood it dude. its just, if my cpu is the bottleneck, then getting a video card that is too good wouldn't be that much better then getting a lower end video card. I was just wondering the if the 9800 pro would be a lot better then the 9600 pro on the system i am running.
Click to expand...
well, true, *but* it allows you to upgrade later and get free performance, versus if you bought a comparable CPU and video card, you'd have to upgrade both. Get the 9800pro.



Besides, the *real* bottleneck on any system is the hard drive...that, and the users themselves.
 
yeah I am going with the 9800 pro. I figure...heck, a barton 2500+, 1GIG pc3200, is going to perform quite good with it.

Later,
eli
 
Originally posted by retardedchicken
it is literally referrring to a bottle, notice at how there is a big amount of "bottle" but only so much can go out through the "neck" at one time, and the stuff in the bottle is coming out a lot slower than if the neck was wider.

........_
.......|..| <-notice how the neck of my "bottle" is smaller and cant
....../... \ transfer as much as it would if it were as wide as
...../..... \
....|...p...|
....|...e...| it is here
....|...p...|
....|...s...|
....|...i....|
....|__.__|


now, lets say the 2500 is the neck of the bottle and the 9800 pro is the bottom part, which is wider.

ok, fixed it, hope it helps:) Coke is better than Pepsi!
Click to expand...

First, Pepsi is better - second, according to the Venturi Effect, wouldn't the stuff coming through the neck actually be going faster [if air was allowed to enter and all that good stuff]? The flow would be greater if the neck was wider, but would the speed be affected?
 
Originally posted by Mad_Pyro
First, Pepsi is better - second, according to the Venturi Effect, wouldn't the stuff coming through the neck actually be going faster [if air was allowed to enter and all that good stuff]? The flow would be greater if the neck was wider, but would the speed be affected?
Click to expand...

That is only correct assuming that the wider part behind the bottle neck is applying pressure, thus increasing velocity as it passes through the constricted area. Even with moderate pressure(say gravity for example) assisting with the increase in velocity, it will not be able to overcome the limitations brought on by the bottleneck.

If you would like to test this, take a plastic Coke(or Pepsi) bottle and fill it up with water. Next take a drinking glass and fill it with the same amount of water. At the same time flip them both upside down. What one drained faster? Now, do the experiment again but this time squeeze the bottle to help generate pressure. Were you even able to make it drain as fast as the glass? A much better solution is to cut off the top of the bottle, thus eliminating the bottleneck.

Unfortunately in the world of computers, there is no such thing as back pressure. If a CPU is doing a calculation, it does not matter how many calculations are waiting behind it, the speed it gets done with the current calculation will not change.

Take for example, a freeway that reduces lanes, the amount of cars behind you does not affect your speed, only the bottleneck in front of you does.
 
i never knew the term bottleneck could be so complicated.

if you upgrade the fastest componant of your machine you will see an improvement. but you wont see the full benefit of that upgrade if something that that componant is dependent on sucks ass.

upgrading to winxp (which is ram dependent) on a machine with 128 megs of ram. isnt going to net you much improvement at all. upgrade the ram (the bottleneck) then xp or the old os runs better. more ram plus + os = more bang for buck.

if you dont upgrade the weakest link than you get less performance out of everything else you upgrade.
 
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