The sky is falling

[IEC]

What are you people mining to make any sort of profit? It doesn't seem like LTC even breaks even at this point, unless you have really, really cheap electricity.

The sky has already fallen if you're looking for instant profit. Even with cheap power a 5Mh+ farm would get you < $10 worth of net profit per day. Which is not worth the hassle.

I'm just mining and hold, I mean hodling LTC and VTC in the hopes they go up in value at some point.

 

[_r2h]

I'm making about ~$20/day.

 

[Vengance_01]

I'm making about ~$20/day.

How much are you in the hole? Whats your ROI or break even point?

 

[_r2h]

eh, like a thousand or so. Almost got that much in BTC sitting on coinbase.

 

[Hurin]

eh, like a thousand or so. Almost got that much in BTC sitting on coinbase.

If you already have that much in coinbase, you're sorta missing the point.

The newer arrivals are looking at a very steep climb. And that is compounded greatly if electricity isn't nearly free. Mine is $.32/KWH.

I'm now making about $1-2 per day after electricity with a 1.7MH/s rig. With an estimated expense for the rig being about $1500, I'll break even in three to four years.

And the advice of some is to just buy more thousand dollar tea spoons and keep digging!

Congrats to those who got in early and made a killing. But they need to try a little harder to see the perspective of those who aren't in their position. Rather than just attributing our decisions or perceptions to a "lack of mental toughness." Seriously, I've seen that said.

 

[collegeboy69us]

If you already have that much in coinbase, you're sorta missing the point.

The newer arrivals are looking at a very steep climb. And that is compounded greatly if electricity isn't nearly free. Mine is $.32/KWH.

I'm now making about $1-2 per day after electricity with a 1.7MH/s rig. With an estimated expense for the rig being about $1500, I'll break even in three to four years.

And the advice of some is to just buy more thousand dollar tea spoons and keep digging!

Congrats to those who got in early and made a killing. But they need to try a little harder to see the perspective of those who aren't in their position. Rather than just attributing our decisions or perceptions to a "lack of mental toughness." Seriously, I've seen that said.

Ouch 32 cents per kwh? CA? I pay 5.5 here in TX. About to have 7Mhash online when I get the last few parts I need.

And I do agree - anyone who JUST got into the game is in for a steep uphill climb. I've been mining off and on for the past 2 years. If I had known where things were going I'd have REALLY gotten into the mining game 2 years ago vs just a hobby with two 6950's.

Any decision in the mining world should be approached with pure numbers, look what you spend vs what you can make. Factor in the amount of risk you are willing to take and then go from there.

Anyone betting their kids college fund on this isn't too bright, and the best way to think about it is gambling. People can go and blow $1000 in a casino, the same way I can blow $1000 on GPUs, I like my odds a whole lot more though with GPUs

I've been lucky - cashed out several times so all my hardware is paid for but I'm still generating income, so it's still free money to me. If I was a n00b, no way in hell I'd go and spend money specifically to mine if you are small time (unless you REALLY like risk).

 

[mkrohn]

The assumption being made is people are living in a place where power isn't very expensive. I'm in a $.14 area and I'm on the high side. people with expensive power simply shouldn't be bothering with a large scale mining operation. That is such common sense that we don't even consider it in discussions.

If you already have that much in coinbase, you're sorta missing the point.

The newer arrivals are looking at a very steep climb. And that is compounded greatly if electricity isn't nearly free. Mine is $.32/KWH.

I'm now making about $1-2 per day after electricity with a 1.7MH/s rig. With an estimated expense for the rig being about $1500, I'll break even in three to four years.

And the advice of some is to just buy more thousand dollar tea spoons and keep digging!

Congrats to those who got in early and made a killing. But they need to try a little harder to see the perspective of those who aren't in their position. Rather than just attributing our decisions or perceptions to a "lack of mental toughness." Seriously, I've seen that said.

 

[atp1916]

I too am in Texas, and i pay 10.8c delivered per kwh.

With my 20mhs, i spend $800 a month on electrical. I bring in approximately $2700 a month before electrical.

That being said, if i was paying 35c/kwh there is no way i would even consider mining unless it was with Gridseeds.

 

[Hurin]

The assumption being made is people are living in a place where power isn't very expensive. I'm in a $.14 area and I'm on the high side. people with expensive power simply shouldn't be bothering with a large scale mining operation. That is such common sense that we don't even consider it in discussions.

Except. . . just one or two months ago, it was worthwhile to mine even for us in Communist states ().

I was making about $8-10 per day only two months ago. Now it's $1-2 per day even after I cut my power usage almost in half while increasing my hashrate via 750 Ti build.

In another one or two months, it might be you fine folks who are seeing the same thing happen as the market (possibly) continues to decline. It just hits the high power-cost folks first.

And that is common sense.

 

[mkrohn]

Except. . . just one or two months ago, it was worthwhile to mine even for us in Communist states ().

I was making about $8-10 per day only two months ago. Now it's $1-2 per day even after I cut my power usage almost in half while increasing my hashrate via 750 Ti build.

In another one or two months, it might be you fine folks who are seeing the same thing happen as the market (possibly) continues to decline. It just hits the high power-cost folks first.

And that is common sense.

Pretty sure everybody knew it was a narrow window and still wouldn't be smart to put mega money into

 

[Hurin]

Pretty sure everybody knew it was a narrow window and still wouldn't be smart to put mega money into

Ummmm, you're moving the goalposts. What I took issue with was your assertion that those in high power-cost localities never should have gotten involved with mining in the first place (it's "common sense"). When I pointed out that a declining market that continues to decline will eventually wash out even those in low power-cost markets as well, you pivot to just saying it's a "narrow window" presumably for everyone.

So. . . uh, I guess that constitutes agreeing with me. . . without being explicit about it.

 

[atp1916]

Ummmm, you're moving the goalposts. What I took issue with was your assertion that those in high power-cost localities never should have gotten involved with mining in the first place (it's "common sense"). When I pointed out that a declining market that continues to decline will eventually wash out even those in low power-cost markets as well, you pivot to just saying it's a "narrow window" presumably for everyone.

So. . . uh, I guess that constitutes agreeing with me. . . without being explicit about it.

Prognosticate this, prognosticate that - please, by all means stop mining already (if you even are) and lower my network difficulties.

 

[Hurin]

Prognosticate this, prognosticate that - please, by all means stop mining already (if you even are) and lower my network difficulties.

You have a strange definition of "prognosticate."

Here's what I said. . .

In another one or two months, it might be you fine folks who are seeing the same thing happen as the market (possibly) continues to decline. It just hits the high power-cost folks first.​

We're discussing what could happen. It's just a little f'ed up to assert that only certain people's opinion or situation matter or are welcome content in this thread based upon arbitrary and unspoken criteria such as how much power you use or when you got started.

 

[Carbon_Rod]

The newer arrivals are looking at a very steep climb. And that is compounded greatly if electricity isn't nearly free. Mine is $.32/KWH.

I'm now making about $1-2 per day after electricity with a 1.7MH/s rig. With an estimated expense for the rig being about $1500, I'll break even in three to four years.

And the advice of some is to just buy more thousand dollar tea spoons and keep digging!

Well, you see, that's sorta on the shoulders of the people wanting to get in. You know... due diligence and all that. Research before diving in head first.

Unfortunately, what do you want us to say for advice? "Oh, hang on there, just give us a few minutes while we pour millions of dollars more into the market to make it profitable for everyone again." No. At this point, you really have only 2 choices. Cut your losses and stop, or get bigger so you can produce more and hopefully pay off your stuff quicker.

Or, I suppose you have a third choice... spend thousands on solar panels and off-grid infrastructure. That way your power costs disappear.

Getting pissed at everyone because they're not giving you advice you want to hear isn't productive.

 

[blade52x]

While the sky is falling, I've decided to extend this awesome hobby

http://www.cryptoalts.com/

I have a pool running, plan to expand these nodes to other locations, and then will just develop a website on cryptos in general.

 

[_r2h]

Or just find other coins to make money off of. I've moved on to greener (hopefully) pastures on nscrypt.

Currently mining vertcoin at vertsquad. Run by a couple of [H]'s, same admins of Coinhuntr.

Current 24avg is the equivalent of ~0.006btc/mhs on scrypt. In nscrypt talk, it's actually 0.0162 btc/mhs, because you hash 40-50% of your scrypt hashrate. Also seems to run less hot and I postulate it uses less power (haven't confirmed with killawatt though).

Cheers.

 

[Hurin]

Two things. . .

At this point, you really have only 2 choices. Cut your losses and stop, or get bigger so you can produce more and hopefully pay off your stuff quicker.

This advice always perplexes me. . . If I'm $1500 in the hole and only making $3/day. . . how does going an additional $1500 in the hole so that I can make $6/day get me anywhere?

Getting pissed at everyone because they're not giving you advice you want to hear isn't productive.

For the record, I haven't gotten pissed at anyone. But I most certainly haven't gotten pissed at any "advice". . . I've pointed out where some folks have basically said "your kind don't belong here. . . this conversation is only for old-timers and low power-cost staters."

We're all just sharing our situations.

Thanks to _rh2 for his last post. I was actually hoping someone would share info about some scrypt-n or scrypt-jane pools. Have been looking into it, but have found it a bit opaque.

 

[Rebel44]

Just a quetion: how much will your production be affected by summer (higher electricity prices in some areas + extra cost of running AC)?

 

[LZ_Xray]

Arguments aside, if you're getting in right now, you will be focusing on non bog-standard scrypt algos if you want to have a chance at making any money going forward. That was my intention with the 750 Tis from the beginning.

That means buying high ram per shader cards such as 4GB 270s and 750 Tis, because unless something amazing happens with the standard scrypt market you will be doing memory-hard algos or getting out.

 

[Carbon_Rod]

Two things. . .


This advice always perplexes me. . . If I'm $1500 in the hole and only making $3/day. . . how does going an additional $1500 in the hole so that I can make $6/day get me anywhere?

The idea is to spend the $1500 on something that makes you more than $6 per day. There are options... like used equipment... or Gridseed ASICs... or just purchasing equipment with a high $/KH ratio. And even factoring resale into it could offset your costs.

But, ultimately your question is the question perplexing us all now, isn't it? If we had an easier answer, someone would have shared it by now.

Thanks to _rh2 for his last post. I was actually hoping someone would share info about some scrypt-n or scrypt-jane pools. Have been looking into it, but have found it a bit opaque.

Yes you use less power for Scrypt-N... not by much. (I noted a reduction of about 70W on a system with 3x R9 280X. YMMV.)

 

[LZ_Xray]

Compared to power draw mining standard scrypt, I use about 95% of that value mining scrypt-N and <50% mining jane.

 

[_r2h]

Thanks to _rh2 for his last post. I was actually hoping someone would share info about some scrypt-n or scrypt-jane pools. Have been looking into it, but have found it a bit opaque.

NP buddy. Getting an nscrypt miner to work was a pita, but everything regarding this hobby has a learning curve.

QUOTE=Carbon_Rod;1040718024]The idea is to spend the $1500 on something that makes you more than $6 per day. There are options... like used equipment... or Gridseed ASICs... or just purchasing equipment with a high $/KH ratio. And even factoring resale into it could offset your costs.
[/QUOTE]

I think the gridseeds make more sense now for during summer. 300khs @ 7w is pretty impressive. Now they jus tneed to work on the stability of them.

Compared to power draw mining standard scrypt, I use about 95% of that value mining scrypt-N and <50% mining jane.

I swear my house is cooler. Any reduction on a 3.5kw system is welcomed.

 

[LZ_Xray]

I swear my house is cooler. Any reduction on a 3.5kw system is welcomed.

I can imagine! 3.5kw is almost exactly 12k BTU, which is 1 ton of AC to cool.

 

[Parja]

All of these "Oh shit, I live in California! Power is f'n expensive!" sellers are funny as hell.

 

[Hurin]

All of these "Oh shit, I live in California! Power is f'n expensive!" sellers are funny as hell.

Glad you're entertained.

One-party rule in the legislature my entire life hasn't been all that funny to me though.

 

[mkrohn]

Glad you're entertained.

One-party rule in the legislature my entire life hasn't been all that funny to me though.

I'm entertained by the fact that people will complain but do NOTHING about it... CA is not a state worth living in. Here in SW MI my cost of living is so much lower than the national average its nuts.

 

[Hurin]

I'm entertained by the fact that people will complain but do NOTHING about it... CA is not a state worth living in. Here in SW MI my cost of living is so much lower than the national average its nuts.

Well, I'm not voting for the party in power and I volunteer for those who would change things. Short of uprooting my kids, wife, and job, that's about all I can do.

Perhaps we can cease this tangent of discussion now?

I'm not sure why there is this attitude towards high power-cost miners. My rig, at 1750 KH/s is drawing 450w at the wall. Short of gridseed, you're not going to find anything that efficient elsewhere (and gridseed isn't going to do scrypt-jane, etc.) That power draw costs me about $3.50 per day. When things were going well, and you guys were making $13/day, I was making $10/day. Everyone acts like people had no business getting involved for only $10/day.

Now, I'm making $2-3/day while someone in a cheaper state will be making $5-6. . . whoopity f'ing do! It's still only a $3.50 difference. And if I'm going to be fully underwater soon, it's possible and/or likely that those in low power-cost localities might be as well. Just a few weeks or months later.

So, the gloating and/or douchey attitude towards people with more expensive electricity that has now been repeatedly on display isn't just unseemly, it's sorta just f'ing stupid.

--H