The Portal 2 Thread **Warning May Contain Spoilers**

[HohnyF]

The quality of the experience is not significantly higher than some other game where you might spend 60-70 hours like DAO or Fallout New Vegas

I have tried playing both games three times, cbb any more and finally gave up, so for me Portal 2 experience was infinite times better.

Personally I don't understand the hate towards the DLC. Its completely optional and for silly shit, if you don't want to buy things, DONT! No one is trying to push it on you, the only reason you prob found it was curiousity of clicking. Not because there are pop ups every where trying to get you to buy it. Be smart, if YOU don't want it DONT GET IT! Some people like that stuff, not sure why but if thats what they want let them have it.

Yes, but what about the children? That's the only valid argument so far.

Children would want these silly DLC. So how do we say no to the children?
Short of parenting them, that is.

 

[Silus]

Personally I don't understand the hate towards the DLC. Its completely optional and for silly shit, if you don't want to buy things, DONT! No one is trying to push it on you, the only reason you prob found it was curiousity of clicking. Not because there are pop ups every where trying to get you to buy it. Be smart, if YOU don't want it DONT GET IT! Some people like that stuff, not sure why but if thats what they want let them have it.

It's amazing the short memory some people have. The problem with DLC is, that once again, Valve lied. Actually the lie started with TF2 updates, but with Portal 2 the values sky-rocketed.

"You buy the product, you get the content ... We make more money because more people buy it, not because we try and nickel-and-dime the same customers."

Robin Walker, Valve Software. 2007"

This was said to corroborate the fact that Valve wouldn't charge for DLC, where even Gabe Newell criticized chargeable DLC.

With TF2 they started charging for DLC...With Portal 2, they charge over $7 for a pair of glasses for a robot...Not all content in Portal 2's DLC is obtainable in-game. Sure it's optional, but any other DLC that was criticized to death, was optional too (look at the horse armor in Oblivion, that got huge flak). Why is this any different ? It's not. It's actually worse, because in the past, Valve was clear about not charging for DLC, but that notion is pretty much dead.

 

[HohnyF]

so u whine because u bought mustaches, gestures etc..., because some other guy bought them, or because u feel they should be free in order to fully enjoy the game

 

[tuaarita]

Why does it seem like there is SOOO many loading zones? Still feel it got consolized...

The first one had loading times at every elevator.

 

[Plague_Injected]

The Valve defenders here are unwittingly paving the way for Valve to start the same bullshit as 2K, EA, THQ and Activision. Valve will see that the fans absolve the wrongdoings, which sets a rather bleak precedent for one of the last bastions of PC gaming to go the way of the Cliffy Bs.

Call a spade a spade and stop with ridiculous overzealotry and denial like this:

This "Console UI", I don't see it...if you're refering to the "please don't turn off your console" who really gives a fuck about one word. Technically a PC is a "Console".

 

[pandora's box]

Someone over at rage3d posted this:

 

[timtheenchantor]

Girlfriend and I played co-op last night. We are on the 3rd "chapter" I guess? We are having loads of fun, let's put it that way. I decided to try and kill her for some of our puzzles and we were laughing quite a bit. Mechanics for viewing what she views, using gestures and dancing in front of GlaDOS's face is pretty awesome.

I enjoy the commentary. We are having fun and that's all that matters to us. Quantifying our fun is purely out of the question. I can see another go around to see how creative we can get with our deaths.

The Valve defenders here are unwittingly paving the way

You have your opinion and they have theirs. Vote with your wallet.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

This is entirely your own opinion and I feel like you're trying way too hard to pass it off as a fact. The quality of the experience and the value is entirely subjective. I paid $60 for God of War 3 and it only took me about 10 hours to complete it, but I felt it was very much worth the money, not any more or less than the $40 I paid for New Vegas even though I played it over 30 hours.

If you don't like Portal that much, you're obviously not going to see the value of the game as much as someone that loves the game. I wish people would stop trying to argue this because it basically just boils down to "Quit liking the games I hate!"

Actually not really, a lot of these thing can be objectively measured to some degree, such as fidelity of graphics, narrative, quality of writing.

I was responding to other peoples arguments that portal 2 was of very high quality in other areas which made up for it's lack of length, I disagree, I think in terms of graphics it's pretty average at best, it has no real interaction of dialogue or any real plot/story as such, just barely enough to string a series of rooms together.

If you think portal 2 is worth the money then great, I have no real disagreement with that the experience you have and the relative cost to you is going to differ for each person.

What I do have to disagree with people saying that it's a significantly better game than other games to make up for it's abysmal length, look at any part of the game objectively and it doesn't stand out. Portals main strength I would say is it's novelty, no one has really done this kind of game before.

 

[Menelmarar]

No, I'm just asking you to compare similar game types. Open world FPS games tend to be much longer than linear ones. That's just the nature of the beast. If you purchase a linear shooter expecting it to be the length of an open world one with RPG elements, then I'd say it's you that has unrealistic goalposts. But you're welcome to dream. Sadly the days of HL1 or Quake length linear FPS games are dead and gone I think.

HL1 has been done in under an hour.
Quake in under 10 minutes.

Yes, lets go back to those.

It's completely subjective, just enjoy the game. For $35, a blast.

 

[Slade]

Tried coop with buddies yesterday once they finished it. God we had so many shit moments where like... "Do you trust me?" kinda deals lol

It'd be like, ok do this then that then... oh fuck.... drop.

Had a blast trying to chase each other with laser beams and the spike hallway, was like hurry hurry and CRUNCH.

No real puzzle frustration, as most were easy. The large fan puzzle was not all that hard to be honest. An extra 30 sec of let's try this and see what happens.

The "crash into each other" puzzle was hillarious as we kept DROPPING each other its like ok ok just get to your spot then... you bastard! moments....

Going to torture other friends later on this. Man another set of friends who have terrible cooperation with each other in real life was HILLARIOUS to hear as they sometimes raged and exacted revenge on each other. Just listening to them miscoordinate on vent was worth the game value.

 

[phide]

Is it just me or is the FOV nauseatingly narrow?

Nope. 90 degrees horizontal at 4:3, widens with the aspect ratio. It's significantly higher than most shooters released these days.

Actually not really, a lot of these thing can be objectively measured to some degree, such as fidelity of graphics, narrative, quality of writing.

How do you measure the quality of the narrative or the writing objectively? What metric exists for such a pupose? Graphics you can rate objectively to some degree (yet you also have to factor for performance), but artistic design is almost entirely subjective.

 

[Oldie]

Nope. 90 degrees horizontal at 4:3, widens with the aspect ratio. It's significantly higher than most shooters released these days.

Speaking for myself, I feel it was a bit zoomed as well. I'd like to try it at about 110, but things like that are very subjective...and it may have more to do with the fact that I'm playing at 5760x1200.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

How do you measure the quality of the narrative or the writing objectively? What metric exists for such a pupose? Graphics you can rate objectively to some degree (yet you also have to factor for performance), but artistic design is almost entirely subjective.

I'm not a professional writer so I don't know the specific criteria, but obviously it's studied and practised in a professional manner, it's graded and rated so there are objective qualities to it.

It's not so much that there is bad story/dialogue in Portal 2, it's almost completely missing those things. The graphics are dated and the performance of the source engine has always been incredibly CPU bound due to its heavy use of BSP which is obsolete in most decent engines. Artistic design is more subjective but again art and style tend to have some objective rules as well, again these are professions with educated professionals, grading systems and competition for positions where artists are paid more than other artists for producing more stylish designs.

 

[drako]

HL1 has been done in under an hour.
Quake in under 10 minutes.

Yes, lets go back to those.

It's completely subjective, just enjoy the game. For $35, a blast.

Well yeah, because people have found every exploit possible and have worked at getting their times down in a competitive manner. When they came out, people weren't beating them in those times. At least I wasnt.

And I agree with your last statement 100%.

 

[HohnyF]

Nope. 90 degrees horizontal at 4:3, widens with the aspect ratio. It's significantly higher than most shooters released these days.

fov_desired

Personally I havent touched this cvar, since default works OK for me

 

[phide]

The graphics are dated and the performance of the source engine has always been incredibly CPU bound due to its heavy use of BSP which is obsolete in most decent engines.

According to whom?

fov_desired

That cvar is locked.

 

[HohnyF]

oh Source is incredibly CPU bound, there's no doubt about that.

u need like GeForce 7600GS and i7-990X to run TF2 optimally. With highest FPS I mean

 

[HaMMerHeD]

Doesn't seem consoley to me.

But it is the most entertaining thing I've played in a while...possibly since the first one.

 

[Brent_Justice]

Doesn't seem consoley to me.

But it is the most entertaining thing I've played in a while...possibly since the first one.

Yep, seems like a regular Source based PC game to me, they are all kinda similar. Simple, not overly complicated, nothing ground breaking visually, but just simple fun gameplay.

 

[phide]

I'm not a professional writer so I don't know the specific criteria, but obviously it's studied and practised in a professional manner, it's graded and rated so there are objective qualities to it.

Grading something does not make it objective. Objective rating is contingent on being observer-independent — the same rating is given regardless of the person rating it. The presence of a so-called "professional" opinion does not make such an opinion objective.

Artistic design is more subjective but again art and style tend to have some objective rules as well, again these are professions with educated professionals, grading systems and competition for positions where artists are paid more than other artists for producing more stylish designs.

Those grading systems are not objective. Wine isn't rated objectively just because it has a quasi-defined point system, for instance. The same applies to art.

 

[amorpheus]

Actually not really, a lot of these thing can be objectively measured to some degree, such as fidelity of graphics, narrative, quality of writing.

What I do have to disagree with people saying that it's a significantly better game than other games to make up for it's abysmal length, look at any part of the game objectively and it doesn't stand out.

Out of those things only graphics aren't mostly subjective once you get into the realm of professional production. They may be dated, but as this game does not even contain any organic characters this becomes much less obvious. Here's a test for the other two criteria: Name one game that you think has a tighter narrative and better writing than Portal 2. Pacing in this game is exemplary, too.

Also, let's look at the one part objectively that is widely criticized: The length. It look me somewhere between 7-8* hours of time to get through. If that's abysmal for a game then I have bad news for you: most games that try for a strong narrative are that "short" or worse. Granted, I didn't rush through and took my time to enjoy every part of it. Perhaps that was where I went wrong.

*For some reason, Steam thinks it's only been 5h, but I know when I started and when I stopped. Are most people basing their playtime on what Steam says? If they do and it's always that inaccurate it would immediately nullify the whole argument...

 

[PrincessFrosty]

According to whom?

It's common knowledge amongst gamers. I've also worked with most of the major game engines first hand (Source, UDK, Crytek, and now building a game in Unity) and I can say from my own testing that source is without a doubt CPU heavy, the way the engine deals with BSP is really horrible, the fact that most source games still use BSP is large amounts for world geometry rather than static meshes causes some quite awful performance issues on slower CPUs.

 

[HohnyF]

yo check this out

Amazon bestsellers rankings

 

[Bigbacon]

It's common knowledge amongst gamers. I've also worked with most of the major game engines first hand (Source, UDK, Crytek, and now building a game in Unity) and I can say from my own testing that source is without a doubt CPU heavy, the way the engine deals with BSP is really horrible, the fact that most source games still use BSP is large amounts for world geometry rather than static meshes causes some quite awful performance issues on slower CPUs.

Sounds like it is still based on the Doom engine..

 

[phide]

It's common knowledge amongst gamers.

It's common knowledge amongst gamers that the reason Source engine is bottlenecked by its use of BSP trees?

...the way the engine deals with BSP is really horrible, the fact that most source games still use BSP is large amounts for world geometry rather than static meshes

A BSP tree is just a means of representing geometry in world space. The GPU has no concept of how vertex data is represented internally — it just ends up in a vertex array or a vertex buffer (or is manipulated by vertex shaders). In reality, Source can discard a great deal of world geometry for basically no CPU cost because visibility determinations are pre-computed into the PVS.

The suggestion that Source is bottlenecked because of BSP lookups is nonsensical, but if you have compelling evidence that's the case, I'd like to see it.

 

[Jellylesg]

I don't buy the argument that Portal 1/2 are such good game that it justifies a high price tag despite the length.

There is little to no real story behind the portal games, it's a novel way of experiencing the story in a similar fashion to Half Life, but it doesn't make the story good. The puzzles aren't hard or really that stimulating at all, the graphics are woefully sub par for the current generation. The presentation is generally quite good but spoilt by making it such an obvious port, stuff like leaving in console messages and leaving in low FOV are not synonymous with good presentation.

I found the humour very forced this time around, like they were trying too hard, I had a few moments where I considered what I just heard was funny in so far that it appears to meet the criteria for being funny but didn't actually make me laugh, it has a sort of expected monotony to it:

1) enter generic chamber section, listen to quip from glados
2) complete chamber in 30 seconds
3) exit towards identical lift, queue 2nd quip from glados

I think fanboyism has kind of run rampant here, portal was a cool little game, more of a tech demo really, and surprised us all I think, which was refreshing. But Portal 2 as a full £30 price point falls way short. The quality of the experience is not significantly higher than some other game where you might spend 60-70 hours like DAO or Fallout New Vegas, them games excel in many ways where Portal 2 falls flat on its face.

This is basically what I've been trying - inarticulately - to get at for a while. It just doesn't seem to qualify as a full game, so £29.99 on steam is absurd to me. That, plus the other issues I've read about like crashing and bugs and a feeling of incompleteness and the digital content store and so on.

I wouldn't waste my time if I were you. If you saw his posts before the game came out, you'd see that he is looking at it with an ax to grind. It's easy to find fault with any game if you look hard enough. Some folks get more enjoyment out of that than playing games.

Triteness doesn't do anyone any favours. I was complaining about the marking technique being silly; especially since it transpired that all of the potato nonsense amounted to precisely zero in the end and it was never possible for the game to have been released early. I had no comments on the game besides what I acknowledged was conjecture based on the original and the fanaticism with which people approach Valve games - that is until it was released and I started reading posts by people who had actually played it.

 

[Derangel]

Triteness doesn't do anyone any favours. I was complaining about the marking technique being silly; especially since it transpired that all of the potato nonsense amounted to precisely zero in the end and it was never possible for the game to have been released early. I had no comments on the game besides what I acknowledged was conjecture based on the original and the fanaticism with which people approach Valve games - that is until it was released and I started reading posts by people who had actually played it.

It did release early actually. Not drastically early like some people believed, but anyone that actually believed it would release way early was fooling themselves. It actually went out a few hours prior to Seattle (where Valve is located) hit the 19th. The marketing stunt took off quite a few hours and people not on the East coast could play it prior to midnight. Valve could have been a lot more clear about how much time would be taken off the release, but consumers could also have been a lot more intelligent about their expectations. There was actually an article on Kotaku bitching out Valve spending weeks promising an early release, despite prior to the ARG launching on Friday there was nothing but rumors created by people like Kotaku.

 

[BETA.]

Dunno if anybody else caught this yet...

Spoiler: SP and MP

I think the events happening in the testing chambers GLADos has Atlas and P-Body go through are simultaneously happening with the chambers that you are going through in SP.

I noticed a comment that GLADos makes in one of the chambers about watching a deer in MP and she mentions a deer in the 2nd chamber of chapter 3 in SP

 

[dara]

At one point at least in the single player you see one of the robots, so I guess that is possible.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

May not be a real spoiler, but...

Spoiler: SP

I don't know about you guys, but "How are you, because I'm a POTATO!" had me falling out of my chair.

 

[Derangel]

May not be a real spoiler, but...

Spoiler: SP

I don't know about you guys, but "How are you, because I'm a POTATO!" had me falling out of my chair.

I loved that line. GlaDOS had some great lines, especially during that part of the game.

 

[Serpico]

But it is the most entertaining thing I've played in a while...possibly since the first one.

I 1000% agree. I can't believe the amount of backlash this game has gotten. The single player and co-op campaigns are works of genius, the gameplay and storytelling are so entertaining, it is a serious contender for GOTY, and vocal negative PC gamers just bitch bitch bitch on forums like they always do. Unbelievable.

As for me, I an insanely jealous of people who get to play the single player campaign for the first time. That first time rush something I can never have again.

 

[Serpico]

May not be a real spoiler, but...

Spoiler: SP

I don't know about you guys, but "How are you, because I'm a POTATO!" had me falling out of my chair.

There were so many laugh out loud moments in this game. The cap on it for me was the

Spoiler: SP

ANIMAL KING appearance at the end. It was the most bizarre thing I saw in a game full of bizarre things, and this was right after the lunacy of shooting a portal at moon and blasting Wheatley into space.

WTF are they smoking at Valve?

 

[Oldie]

I'm actually really looking forward to going through the SP again. Now that I won't be so focused on the puzzles, I've been thinking of a few maps that I'd like to explore a bit more and try out some portal/fluid tricks that might be fun.

I think an open "gary's mod" type world for Portal would be fun as hell as well. I don't have the skill to pull it off, but hopefully someone out there does. Being able to easily create custom levels like that would be amazing.

 

[tesfaye]

Last night I picked up Portal 2 and Mortal Kombat at Toys R Us and received a nice $50 gift card as a bonus. As soon as I got home I fired up Portal 2 on the PS3, linked my accounts and got to playing. Personally, I felt the graphics weren't all that great on the PS3, but the sound, dialogue and gameplay were fantastic. I stopped playing after about 30 minutes and started the PC version. After making sure all settings were on the highest level I got to playing. Right away it was a night and day difference. This is all on a 50" Panny Plasma btw. Shaper textures, better lighting, softer shadows, NO ALIASING, it all just looked fantastic. Everything else felt the same as the PS3. I don't recall noticing a huge difference in the frame rate and controls felt exactly the same between the two versions when using the PS3 and XBOX 360 controllers.

I never noticed the "Console" text during saves on the PC version, probably because I don't care. I did take a quick look in the store but I don't care about that either. As long as the single player experience isn't compromised, I don't care if they offer DLC. Let the kids buy it up if that's what they want to do. If games start heading in the direction where I have to be nickel and dimed in order to get the full experience, I just won't buy the game. You won't find me bitching about that.

I'm dying to try out co-op but something tells me I should finish the game first and then play co-op. Has anyone played online with someone on another platform? What was your experience like?

 

[Derangel]

I'm actually really looking forward to going through the SP again. Now that I won't be so focused on the puzzles, I've been thinking of a few maps that I'd like to explore a bit more and try out some portal/fluid tricks that might be fun.

I think an open "gary's mod" type world for Portal would be fun as hell as well. I don't have the skill to pull it off, but hopefully someone out there does. Being able to easily create custom levels like that would be amazing.

I'm planning to go back through and grab some of the achievements I missed on my first run. Then go on an easter egg hunt and try finding all the weird little things that Valve likes to put in their games.

 

[dj_2004]

There were so many laugh out loud moments in this game. The cap on it for me was the

Spoiler: SP

ANIMAL KING appearance at the end. It was the most bizarre thing I saw in a game full of bizarre things, and this was right after the lunacy of shooting a portal at moon and blasting Wheatley into space.

WTF are they smoking at Valve?

That was one of my favorite parts of the game, and the song is lovely.

Spoiler: SP

Is there any information about the "I'm different" turret? When you meet it again and pick it up before it is be destroyed, it goes on about Caroline and what is below (the old testing facility). I wonder if it was a previous employee used as a test subject...

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Oh ouch, completed in a hair over 4 hours.

If you're a puzzle fanatic and you're looking for something to get you thinking I honestly wouldn't recommend this, if you're intermediate or above you'll blast through the game in no time. Of the 4 hours I think probably only 3 were actual gameplay, between the loading, the generic entrance/exit areas and the "on rails" section where you're essentially just following a linear path, that's about 1 hour of the game.

 

[Serpico]

Oh ouch, completed in a hair over 4 hours.

If you're a puzzle fanatic and you're looking for something to get you thinking I honestly wouldn't recommend this, if you're intermediate or above you'll blast through the game in no time. Of the 4 hours I think probably only 3 were actual gameplay, between the loading, the generic entrance/exit areas and the "on rails" section where you're essentially just following a linear path, that's about 1/4 of the game.

You must have blasted through the game. Six hours for an initial playthrough seems to be the minimum for most. The average seems to be 6-10 hours, and that is entirely dependent upon which puzzle you get completely stuck on. Many people posted completion times on Shacknews around 8-10 hours. It took me about eight on Friday night because I got seriously stuck on two puzzles, one of which was a major DUH moment when I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. I also did some exploring in sections and just enjoyed the world they'd set up.

Oh, and add another hour because I was playing it on a PS3 gamepad. Playing through it again on a mouse and keyboard is about 1000 times faster.

Knowing all of the solutions ahead of time and not stopping to enjoy all of the dialogue and story, I can see blasting through single player in something like three hours just based on quantity of puzzles alone. Four hours on a first playthrough seems like it is on the extreme extreme end of a bell curve (or you used a walkthrough, haha)

Co-op took a friend and I something like five or five and a half hours last night. Between that and how hard the game made me laugh, well worth it IMHO.

 

[Serpico]

That was one of my favorite parts of the game, and the song is lovely.

Spoiler: SP

Is there any information about the "I'm different" turret? When you meet it again and pick it up before it is be destroyed, it goes on about Caroline and what is below (the old testing facility). I wonder if it was a previous employee used as a test subject...

I think...

Spoiler: SP

...it might be that the turret uses some of Glados' AI. They share the same voice, after all, and Glados' AI is part Caroline. Notice that the turret also says "get mad" and "make lemonade", both Cave Johnson-isms. It think it also made a moon reference, I don't remember exactly at the moment. Either way, lots of foreshadowing for people who have played the game before and are now making a second run through the game or achievement hunting.